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Sydin posted:Nobody's mentioned Utley yet but he's getting in, maybe not first ballot but he's got the WAR and JAWS numbers plus a ring.
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Nov 20, 2023 20:14
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euphronius posted:Rollins is firmly at Ozzie smith levels so it’s hard to argue he should not be in Rollins is nearly 30 WAR short of Ozzie Smith
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Nov 20, 2023 20:16
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Abreu Beltran Beltre Helton Manny ARod Sheffield Wagner Mauer
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Nov 20, 2023 20:17
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bawfuls posted:you mean he has Ozzie’s bat without Ozzie’s defense? hey he has a slightly less bad bat, with worse baserunning and much worse defense and in 20% fewer games
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Nov 20, 2023 20:19
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euphronius posted:Looking up stats and man Jeter was pretty good He was overrated and still great.
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Nov 20, 2023 20:26
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bawfuls posted:idk why I thought Utley was well short of 60 WAR but yeah he should get in eventually Ya same. Add him to my list.
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Nov 20, 2023 20:27
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Jeter's glove was obviously overrated but his bat was very good and he was very durable and being able to play shortstop every day while hitting that well is super valuable even if you're not very good at it. I hate his smarmy guts but he's a top 5 SS all time or very close to itFlamingLiberal posted:Also Jeff Kent never got in. He has at least a borderline case. Jeff Kent was a giant rear end in a top hat which in a borderline case is a perfectly fine tiebreaker in favor of "nahhhh"
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Nov 20, 2023 20:45
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Utley shouldn’t get in until Ruben Tejada’s allowed a revenge takeout slide.
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Nov 20, 2023 20:55
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Eric the Mauve posted:Jeff Kent was a giant rear end in a top hat which in a borderline case is a perfectly fine tiebreaker in favor of "nahhhh"
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Nov 20, 2023 21:39
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Eric the Mauve posted:Jeter's glove was obviously overrated but his bat was very good and he was very durable and being able to play shortstop every day while hitting that well is super valuable even if you're not very good at it. I hate his smarmy guts but he's a top 5 SS all time or very close to it Yes and he was still overrated because he played at the same time as A-Rod and was considered his equal which was nonsense. This isn't to take anything away from Jeter. He's at worst top 10 ever at his position.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:44
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Who else is in the top 10 dogshit fielding shortstops
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Nov 20, 2023 21:47
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Hanley Ramirez had a -8.7 dWAR for his career but part of that includes time at 3B and 1B
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Nov 20, 2023 21:50
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zoux posted:Who else is in the top 10 dogshit fielding shortstops Jose Hernandez.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:53
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euphronius posted:Can you post the picture in some other way https://twitter.com/JClarkNBCS/status/1726671913898979587
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Nov 20, 2023 21:54
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The one dude I remember who could rake and had no business at SS was Michael Young. Then he moved to 3rd and was meh but still could hit.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:55
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bawfuls posted:idk why I thought Utley was well short of 60 WAR but yeah he should get in eventually if Jack Morris is a Hall of Famer, then
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Nov 20, 2023 21:56
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:Yes and he was still overrated because he played at the same time as A-Rod and was considered his equal which was nonsense. Nomah was better too.
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Nov 20, 2023 21:58
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zoux posted:Who else is in the top 10 dogshit fielding shortstops Starlin Castro
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Nov 20, 2023 22:04
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The fucker the Phillies have now isn’t good at picking balls up
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Nov 20, 2023 22:05
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Red posted:if Jack Morris is a Hall of Famer, then
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Nov 20, 2023 22:07
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euphronius posted:The fucker the Phillies have now isn’t good at picking balls up He's called the Phillies Phucker
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Nov 20, 2023 22:08
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I didn't vote for the man, but look - the seal is broken, and it is a Hall of Poop now, I'm sorry
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Nov 20, 2023 22:10
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bawfuls posted:Abreu bawfuls continues his crusade against the Twins
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Nov 20, 2023 22:12
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The problem with Joe Mauer is that he spent 33% of his career at 1B and another ~17% at DH, which significantly degrades his case as a HoF catcher. If he'd done that and ended up at like 65-70 WAR I'd say sure, easy case. But he finished with 55 WAR instead so he's real borderline. 3943 PA as a catcher with an .889 OPS is great! But it's short of a Hall of Fame career. 2593 PA as a 1B with a .751 OPS is not enough to tip it over the edge for me And another 1349 PA as a DH with a .797 OPS is still pretty meh bawfuls fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 22:34
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Would you vote for Buster Posey?
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Nov 20, 2023 22:36
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Red posted:if Jack Morris is a Hall of Famer, then Congratulations to Mark Buehrle. Hell it's about time.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:36
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Posey is like first ballot Not many better cases
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Nov 20, 2023 22:37
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All the names being tossed out right now remind me of the amazing AIM names from The Dugout strips
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Nov 20, 2023 22:38
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I love Jack Morris being in the HoF. I had a project going for years of the Hall of Better Than Jack Morris, there are no poo poo near 50 pitchers who were at least as good as Jack Morris who aren't in the Hall of Fame and almost all of them never will be. Like just for example, take my man Orel Hershiser. He was unambiguously better than Jack Morris. He was more of a postseason hero than Jack Morris (still the only player with both an NLCS and ALCS MVP plus a WS MVP to boot). He also isn't even one of the top 5 pitchers from the 1980s who aren't in the Hall of Fame. Jack Morris is the gift that will keep on giving forever.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:42
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:The one dude I remember who could rake and had no business at SS was Michael Young. Yeah he moved to short out of necessity after they dealt Arod for Alfonso Soriano, but had no loving business playing there. He even got a comedy gold glove in 2008 just due to his reputation as being a good guy I guess? The "past a diving Michael Young" (padmy) call became a meme in Rangers circles.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:43
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It’s not about numbers anymore ( the hof) so a guy like posey is top tier imho The Scott rolen of catchers
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Nov 20, 2023 22:44
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euphronius posted:Posey is like first ballot I think Posey should be in. I think if Posey is first ballot then Mauer is easily in too. And probably Russell Martin
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Nov 20, 2023 22:45
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:Would you vote for Buster Posey? But at least he can be fairly compared to other catchers since he accumulated over 80% of his PA's there. And when you do compare him to other catchers, he looks a bit light with a JAWS that's well below the HoF average and behind guys who aren't in like Thurman Munson and Gene Tenance. I assume he will eventually be inducted, as will Molina, but if you're gonna include those guys then you should also include Jorge Posada who was one-and-done with 3.8% of the vote in 2017. Posey has the best case of the three but it is really heavy on narrative and EYBS. At least he won an MVP. edit: if you trust Fangraphs framing runs then sure, Posey is right on the line and the narrative pushes him over. But if you do that and also elect Molina (likely), then you also need to include Russell Martin and Brian McCann, neither of which I think have a real shot. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Nov 20, 2023 |
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Nov 20, 2023 22:46
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welcome posted:Congratulations to Mark Buehrle. Hell it's about time. If he belongs in than so does Andy Pettitte. I think they both fall short.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:47
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Eric the Mauve posted:I love Jack Morris being in the HoF. I had a project going for years of the Hall of Better Than Jack Morris, there are no poo poo near 50 pitchers who were at least as good as Jack Morris who aren't in the Hall of Fame and almost all of them never will be. Orel Hershiser is legit and I wish people gave him more credit for being great for two separate 80s powerhouses. I'll just keep using him for easy points on Immaculate Grid, I guess.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:48
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Orel Hershiser is also a nice guy and pleasant broadcaster, not a cranky old man bitching about the modern game. Unlike Jack Morris.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:51
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bawfuls posted:Posey is also a hard case because he retired so early. It is real hard to assemble a Hall of Fame career in only 12 seasons, and his WAR & JAWS totals reflect this. Put in Russell thank you ane god bless
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Nov 20, 2023 22:54
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Re buster posey 
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Nov 20, 2023 22:58
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like I said, his case is very narrative-driven
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Nov 20, 2023 23:00
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bawfuls posted:Posey is also a hard case because he retired so early. It is real hard to assemble a Hall of Fame career in only 12 seasons, and his WAR & JAWS totals reflect this. Posey has the peak, the hardware, the narrative, and three rings. He'll get in despite lagging a fair bit in total WAR. Molina has neither the peak or total WAR but he does have two rings and was also like the quintessential living ideal of the perfect franchise catcher for close to two decades so he'll absolutely get inducted as well, hell I wouldn't be all that surprised if he was first ballot.
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Nov 20, 2023 23:01
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