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My games just felt about as random and slingshotty as ever. Trying to knock off survivor archives, I got a Michael who I think managed two hooks before we all escaped. Next game was an Oni who hooked me, ran in at the unhook, managed to down the guy unhooking me *and* hit me at the same time, then he ran over and downed me again. It was impressive as gently caress and I've never seen that before
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Nov 20, 2023 22:53
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Pants Donkey posted:It’s crazy how people drop on the first hook. Worse is the people who intentionally die to avoid penalties for disconnecting, thus dooming their team to do five gens with three survivors. The core problem is that the community is full of entitled assholes who think it's everyone else's problem that they're sick of (insert character/map/perk/playstyle here) after 4000 hours of wringing every last bit of life they can out of a deeply flawed video game. I am begging these players to try literally anything else. Go play loving Fortnite or Overwatch 2 or something! Those are free! Try one of the many free MOBAs available if you need the familiar glut of toxicity! That said, I'm very glad for this change, though I think the amount of streamers crying about long queues is going to cause it to be reverted, because who cares about thousands of extremely miserable games on both sides churning out more and more toxicity and animosity and scaring away new players as long as content creators can get their hashtag #content. And DBD knows that at least some of its continued popularity is due to streamers and social media, it's the entire reason they have Fog Whisperers. It's very frustrating because I saw the exact same poo poo happening with Deceive Inc (and according to a friend of mine, it's still happening just as badly) because the MMR is so poor/nonexistent. Almost every match has someone who is way too high level who is disregarding the game's stealth mechanics because they know that if someone takes a shot at them they can click on heads and win every fight and exploit every technique. If you spectate them, they inevitably do, even against a full lobby. You have content creators like Dowsey churning out streaks in the hundreds against people with sub-10 hours in the game, and it visibly frustrates and scares away new blood. Like, sorry about DBD being your fulltime job or whatever, but if you've put in so many hours that you can't get games because the game refuses to stack you up against people with not even a tenth of the experience you have so you can thrash them for the next 15 minutes in front of a crowd, that's kind of a you problem. Deal with your long queues. Start running Words On Stream or play Vampire Survivors on top while you wait or some poo poo.
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Nov 20, 2023 22:56
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DeathChicken posted:My games just felt about as random and slingshotty as ever. Trying to knock off survivor archives, I got a Michael who I think managed two hooks before we all escaped. Next game was an Oni who hooked me, ran in at the unhook, managed to down the guy unhooking me *and* hit me at the same time, then he ran over and downed me again. It was impressive as gently caress and I've never seen that before 
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Nov 20, 2023 23:13
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My Killer games have definitely felt harder than usual, but my Survivor matches feel about the same as they’ve always been.
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Nov 20, 2023 23:16
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I got a triple down playing Oni like months ago and I'm still riding that high
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Nov 20, 2023 23:27
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Danaru posted:I got a triple down playing Oni like months ago and I'm still riding that high Yeah, I did this in the RPD lobby and it felt amazing. If I ever get 4 in 1 I'll uninstall.
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Nov 21, 2023 00:04
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I'm dumb and don't really understand what this means...
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Nov 21, 2023 00:46
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Kwolok posted:I'm dumb and don't really understand what this means...
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Nov 21, 2023 02:06
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Kwolok posted:I'm dumb and don't really understand what this means... The "softcap" is a number used in the matchmaking system. It controls who can get matched against who, so some people noticed when they changed that number. However, this would have affected only the top 5% of all players, so I didn't notice.
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Nov 21, 2023 02:22
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The softcap was extremely extremely low before. I die more often than I escape as survivor (but the game is balanced around 60% killrates so that doesn't necessarily mean lost mmr) since i seldom run meta anything and i am bad at looping, and I was for sure above softcap, since I have gone against multiple insane 100+ streak onetricks. This is definitely going to affect more than "the top 5% of players" Hell, it already did. Last night I didn't face a single killer under A tier and they all had Pop. Three weskers, a nurse, a Spirit, and a Plague with "you cannot deny my power" addons. Stricter MMR was tried before and it was changed because it was pretty universally disliked. The issue is that you literally cannot have "good" matchmaking for this game with the massive disparity in hours/skill/killer power level/perk power level. Either you have games where you get dumped on every so often, or you wait for a million years to go against your fourth consecutive Pop/Pain Res Wesker or teleport spam Sadako. Removing MMR is not a solution either, I have the old thread pulled up in another tab and basically every fifth post is about how red ranks sucks because it's nothing but a sweatfest of people trying to hit rank 1 before reset.
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Nov 21, 2023 03:24
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Tiny Myers posted:I wish they'd remove the ability to kill yourself on hook, but I guess that would just lead to running into the killer and teabagging until they kill you instead. And if that became against the rules, "accidentally" losing a chase in more subtle ways, like holding W until they get you and avoiding pallets. Correct. Which is why I still say they should get rid of the DC penalty. Whiny piss-babies are gonna get out of the game if they want to, and being replaced with a bot is the fastest for them and the least disastrous for the rest of the players.
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Nov 21, 2023 06:42
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The current bots are genuinely better than your typical solo-queue teammate anyway
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Nov 21, 2023 06:43
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Removing DC penalties is still as bad an idea now as when it was last brought up. If you have 0 punishment for quitting, people will learn to just DC in response to the first down/seeing a killer their loadout isn't great against/a killer sided map load up/a teammate missing a skillcheck
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Nov 21, 2023 06:49
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Blasmeister posted:Removing DC penalties is still as bad an idea now as when it was last brought up. If you have 0 punishment for quitting, people will learn to just DC in response to the first down/seeing a killer their loadout isn't great against/a killer sided map load up/a teammate missing a skillcheck There's already 0 punishment for quitting, as long as you do it in a way that royally fucks over your teammates. These people aren't saying "Oh gosh golly, I'd love to DC but there's a penalty, so I guess I will play the rest of the game to the best of my ability." They're saying "Yo, the DC penalty sucks, so I'm gonna teabag the killer and suicide on first hook. This will ruin the game for everyone, while completely bypassing the DC penalty for me." rydiafan fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 07:01
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rydiafan posted:There's already 0 punishment for quitting, as long as you do it in a way that royally fucks over your teammates. It takes longer, can be interrupted, and explictly is against the rules and invites reporting. Also this is a better argument for DC penalities to be added to letting go on first hook rather than having them removed from elsewhere!
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Nov 21, 2023 07:05
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Blasmeister posted:Also this is a better argument for DC penalities to be added to letting go on first hook rather than having them removed from elsewhere! Attempting to unhook yourself is a core part of the game, with multiple perks and offerings built around it. You're suggesting people be punished for interacting with a part of the game. And, if previous conversations are to be gone by, here's where somebody suggests eliminating kobeing entirely, at which point you're asking for the games gameplay loop be redesigned to suit your misguided belief that DC penalties are any sort of a deterrent to the people doing it, rather than a punishment to innocent bystanders. And, again, even if you do punish/eliminate killing yourself on hook, people will get out some other way. Should I get a DC penalty if my chases are too short? If the killer finds me too soon?
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Nov 21, 2023 07:11
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Dying on hook intentionally should cause your monitor to explode imo
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Nov 21, 2023 07:16
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We really are just doing the whole argument over again step by step huh. You are ignoring the effect on large groups of adding perverse incentives to the game to concentrate on the futility of trying to mechanically legislate to stop 'person determined to exit the game at any cost'. People who are complete assholes will find a way but will do so messily and in a way that gets others mad at them and generate reports. This is an enforcement issue rather than a mechanical one. Removing the only disincentive to Escape/quit WILL tempt many, many more players to impulsively say 'this isn't fun (read: going my way) i'm gonna reroll for a new match immediately'. This would ruin so many more games than would improve for the people who occasionally have an internet issue and are made to wait 5 minutes every other week.
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Nov 21, 2023 07:26
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I'm not ignoring anything. I'm a realist. But maybe you're right, and the DC penalty is a super great idea that dissuades poor sports. That must be way I never seen anybody giving up on first hook, holding shift when I try to heal them, or charging at the killer immediately after they get rescued. It's also why I don't see anybody doing this in 80% of the matches I see online. You say I should report people. Report them for what? Attempting to unhook themselves? Do I report anyone running Up The Ante, Slippery Meat, or bringing salt? Do I report people who are bad at looping and/or hiding? Which legitimate deaths do we make illegal to stop the people doing them intentionally? Edit: Like yeah, I loving hate quitters. If there was a way for the internet to punch everyone who rage quits in the dick I'd support it. But that's not realistic. My choices are bots or a dead survivor at 5 gens who gets to go on to their next game with no repercussions while I'm hosed. And I'm sick of being stuck with that second option. rydiafan fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 07:37
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rydiafan posted:I'm not ignoring anything. I'm a realist. And yet you're asking poo poo like this? rydiafan posted:
Report people who are throwing, the ones who are in 80% of your matches. I dunno how you seem to have so much trouble IDing them when you claim to see so many. Simply do not report the people who are trying to play the game.
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Nov 21, 2023 07:43
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I'll ask it again, since you aren't answering it. Report them for what? Attempting to unhook themselves? Going down quickly in a chase? Being found easily? Which of these things are you under the impression is actionable? Edit: Also, I've reported hundreds of people for things over the years, from working with the killer to open hate speech, and have gotten confirmation of action being taken exactly once. And yes, this includes dozens of "killed themselves on first hook" reports. lol if you think reporting does poo poo. rydiafan fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 07:46
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This is the dumbest poo poo ever. Games that have lobbied/match made matches with no drop in/back fill are complete and utter rear end when there are no DC penalties and you're an idiot for suggesting otherwise.
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Nov 21, 2023 07:53
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rydiafan posted:I'll ask it again, since you aren't answering it. Report them for what? Attempting to unhook themselves? Going down quickly in a chase? Being found easily? Which of these things are you under the impression is actionable? The people trying to die intentionally. Stop acting like this is some gotcha, there's plenty of behaviour this covers and none of those are it. Running at the killer, pointing at the hook then Unhook x 3 then immediately letting go is the most obvious and common one. You know this, stop mystifying it. E: I see the goalposts are shifting beneath me, I'm not gonna move with them
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Nov 21, 2023 07:56
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Kwolok posted:This is the dumbest poo poo ever. Games that have lobbied/match made matches with no drop in/back fill are complete and utter rear end when there are no DC penalties and you're an idiot for suggesting otherwise. Your arguing against yourself. DBD back fills if you DC, but not if you kill yourself. Edit: Also, if you're gonna be wrong can you at least not be an rear end in a top hat? Both of you are being needlessly aggressive. rydiafan fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 07:58
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Blasmeister posted:The people trying to die intentionally. Stop acting like this is some gotcha, there's plenty of behaviour this covers and none of those are it. Running at the killer, pointing at the hook then Unhook x 3 then immediately letting go is the most obvious and common one. You know this, stop mystifying it. And as I've said, I've reported these people countless times. It doesn't do poo poo. The DC penalty doesn't do poo poo. The game is full of people ruining matches and suffering zero repercussions for it. Your stance seems to be "the things that don't currently work will totally work despite the complete lack of working". Again, I'd love if your world existed. I'm on the same page as you that these poor sport losers should be punished. But the current system doesn't do it and won't do it. DC penalties are avoided by dying. And dying intentionally isn't punished because reports don't get after upon. And if reports ever did get acted upon, the quitters would just be more subtle with "oh darn I missed skill checks and looped badly, shucks" instead of teabagging. Under the current system the only people suffering are the ones who DON'T quit.
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Nov 21, 2023 08:04
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I've said this elsewhere but I guess it's become relevant here: DBD currently has "all stick, no carrot" methodology in dealing with undesirable behavior, and the solution is not to add more sticks (or remove existing ones), it's to add carrots. Tunneling has anecdotally increased in the last year, despite anti-tunnel mechanics becoming basekit. This is partially due to the most frequent killer (in softcap North America) MMR giving you info and incentive to tunnel (wesker is poorly designed. i will die on this hill). and partially due to the removal of the single benefit the game previously had to spread perks: BBQ And Chili's bloodpoint bonus. BBQ and Chili is still a good perk: Near-uncounterable aura reading on almost any map is a good thing to have. But ask yourself: When was the last time you saw a killer without mobility run it? Without really good mobility? Compare that to 2 years ago when the perk had a flat bonus to your experience for playing nice, IE: hooking everyone once, and every single killer ran it every match. In one way this was good: The removal of the BP bonus had an immediate effect on the meta in that bloodpoints were no longer the deciding factor in picking this perk. This is good for match variety, and IMO overall made more builds viable: You're not sacrificing half your potential earnings for running something "better" but less fair. It also removed your major incentive to find and hook everyone, meaning tunneling has no drawbacks. BHVR could fix the problem of people playing like assholes by adding carrots: Post-session BP bonuses for people using the "fun game" function (which i genuinely think has absolutely zero impact on anything currently outside of seeing a bar be filled to your pleasure), the "thumbs up" function, which both currently serves no purpose but to seemingly inflate the reports with nothing actionable, and has no material benefit for the person you give props to. This allows the community to self police bad behavior like slugging and tunneling and immediate suicides or working with the killer without unfairly punishing people who are simply good and get quick games as a result (like that widowmaker main in the first year of overwatch who got 30+ minute queues because so many people blocked them for being good at snipers) Removing the DC penalty will cause unpopular killers to play bot games more often than not. If you play Twins or Smerchant or Knight or Wraith or Wesker or Nurse or Blight or Legion (all killers i have seen people mention are an "immediate dc" for different reasons). You cannot punish people out of bd behavior because bad people will take pleasure in knowing that everyone else is suffering out of spite. You need to make good behavior have a bonus attached to it, so those same people who think disconnecting and giving a bot is a small price to play to avoid playing against Legion think twice about giving that same legion a potential boost. EDIT: Another simple change they can make is making it more obvious a 3k is not a loss by adding an identical bloodpoint bonus for killing 3 people as there is currently for killing all 4. With a 4k you get the bloodpoint event "no one escaped" and that means people who care about BP will slug to avoid hatch. If they made an identical event for a 3k called "one to tell the tale" or "final one created" (to reference the Final Girl trope) they'd remove the idea that a 3k is lesser than a 4k from the game's more obvious tells. curiousTerminal fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 08:35
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rydiafan posted:Your arguing against yourself. DBD back fills if you DC, but not if you kill yourself. Lmao backfilling with bots is not backfilling
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Nov 21, 2023 09:03
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Kwolok posted:Lmao backfilling with bots is not backfilling When I'm survivor I don't give up when it happens or anything, but if it happens at the start of the match it's very much like "  well gently caress" and understanding that your chance of getting anything done just dropped profoundly.Are they better than nothing? Certainly. Is it funny when one of them manages to actually be decent? Yes. But bot-Dwight refusing to let me heal him, nervously sprinting away and fast vaulting nowhere near the killer because the terror radius is playing, then getting stuck on a tree is probably not going to outpace most of the survivors at my level just because sometimes he can psychically duck a hatchet.
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Nov 21, 2023 11:27
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curiousTerminal posted:I've said this elsewhere but I guess it's become relevant here: DBD currently has "all stick, no carrot" methodology in dealing with undesirable behavior, and the solution is not to add more sticks (or remove existing ones), it's to add carrots. Part of the issue imo is that there aren't that many pro-social carrots to offer. After a certain point bloodpoints are worthless, rift progress is achieved through certain actions rather than just straight up battlepass style XP grind, and most people don't really care about their rank or they wouldn't be DC-ing. Really the biggest carrot is to gently caress with the opposing side, and if it seems like that isn't something that will happen then they just DC. I'd suggest a "rejoin" system where if you "accidentally quit" the game will make you to rejoin the game and take the place of the bot that you left behind if they are still alive. But then that just makes people kill themselves, which others have already pointed out is a problem. If you are targeting a solution I think you need to come up with a way for the first person to die to have a good impact on the team and give rewards based on it. Someone getting chased and hooked isn't a failure state, it's a natural part of play, and it's a delaying tactic against the Killer that allows others to repair gens. Like it or not DBD is a team game now and rewarding things that benefits the whole team rather than assuming that players are individuals who are being altruistic in saving people or messing up by being chased doesn't really help. But that also goes back to the same problem at the start where tangible rewards aren't worth that much. The biggest change of all would be for players to just stop being such giant drat goobers. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 14:40
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curiousTerminal posted:(like that widowmaker main in the first year of overwatch who got 30+ minute queues because so many people blocked them for being good at snipers) Just because I like to talk about that weirdly specific thing: To be fair that was super valid imo, for a portion of OW's early life she could 1 charged body shot kill a handful of the cast, 100 to 0, and kill another handful of it with just 1 immediate follow-up shot anywhere all without having to unscope, that character was reviled for a while for a reason, think TF2's fairly carefully designed sniper, if they'd also given him an assault rifle and grappling hook and his sniper rifle charged a little quicker just cause. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 14:54
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As much as I like the anti-camp mechanic, they've gotta do something with how it interacts with the basement hooks. 3 games almost in a row I've had a Killer basement hook someone and then stay juuuuuuuuuuuust out of range, like stutter stepping until they're sure that they are, but in range enough that the moment someone attempts a save they're right on top of them while circumventing the free unhook. I know the old adage of Just Do Gens is once again the best advice, but when a Killer is going out of their way to play like a prick and skirting around the measures to punish it, it feels so bad.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:56
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SteelMentor posted:As much as I like the anti-camp mechanic, they've gotta do something with how it interacts with the basement hooks. 3 games almost in a row I've had a Killer basement hook someone and then stay juuuuuuuuuuuust out of range, like stutter stepping until they're sure that they are, but in range enough that the moment someone attempts a save they're right on top of them while circumventing the free unhook. Yeah so far the anti camp mechanic only fixes abbhorent face camping and literally nothing else
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Nov 21, 2023 17:04
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I had a hag place down like 7 traps after hooking me without running afoul of the timer. I can understand enough time to get a couple traps up, but the timer is tuned extremely generously right now.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:04
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It is, but honestly I'd rather the timer be lenient than punish me for stuff like stopping to kick a gen that's right next to the guy I hooked
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Nov 21, 2023 18:30
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The system was only ever meant to stop face camping, and I'd say it's done a decent job at that. Anything more than right up against the hook would need a bit more nuance to properly deal with.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:07
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Camping 20 feet from the hook is still stupidly loving lame. But this game is so stale at this point they need to rethink core systems they never will anyway.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:11
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DeathChicken posted:It is, but honestly I'd rather the timer be lenient than punish me for stuff like stopping to kick a gen that's right next to the guy I hooked I mean, both can work at the same time, or have the timer stop momentarily when the killer is doing an action.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:25
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A large part of why tunneling and camping continue to exist at all is, imo, the lack of meaningful ingame deterrent for doing so. Like a lot of players don't read chat or forums to know that tunneling is "bad", all they know is that it's an intuitive and effective means to secure kills, so why not do it? Things like the ingame camp timer are good for giving the player actual ingame direction so they think "oh ok, I shouldn't do that". I think they should expand the game's tutorial to address things like different killers, especially considering how many exist, and also give guidance for both sides to discourage certain behavior. Tell killers that camping and tunneling a single survivor can lead to other survivors finishing the game under their nose. Tell survivors that if the killer is targeting one person, oftentimes the best thing to do is to do gens to apply pressure. Tell survivors this is a valid strategy and not killer players being a dick, unless you plan to add meaningful punishment/deterrent for it, so killers can stop taking the brunt of survivor anger for an intuitive playstyle. It'll take time, but instilling the message "camping and tunneling is bad and ineffective actually in most cases but is also not BM" in your new player base is going to be deeply important as the game grows exponentially as well as the amount of players who are just playing on their PS4 because they like Chucky and are completely insulated from the insane e-bushido around DBD. Obviously this wouldn't do anything for the example of killers shuffling to the very edge of camping range. But imo, and maybe this is an unpopular opinion, the basement is generally a dated as gently caress mechanic that only encourages camping and tunneling. Sure, it's fun - who hasn't had entire teams collapse themselves on basement rescues? - but having a one-way entrance to a death trap causes way more problems than not (on both sides - how many times have you had someone wiggle out due to hook drought because the hook placement was all hosed up from the basement being nearby?) and it should simply be removed. It's a relic of a game design that is 7 years old. The idea of having unbreakable hooks is great. Just replace 4 hooks with 4 "reinforced hooks" around where basement used to spawn that can never be sabotaged and transfer all basement related perks to that. Except Territorial Imperative I guess, you'd have to figure some poo poo out there.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:35
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Tunnelling is by far the most effective way to play UNLESS the survivors have a ton of anti-tunnelling perks and insane comms. However its super immediately obvious how intensely unfun it would be to be on the receiving end of this unless you are a complete sociopath. I put it on the same level as blight/nurse players. You're not playing them because they are fun, you are playing them because they are leagues ahead of any other killer in terms of raw power.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:37
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Blight is fun as hell. 
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Nov 21, 2023 19:42
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