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IcePhoenix posted:Looking through Baseball-Reference and Willie Stargel in 1979 looks real bad he gets a pass because he split it with Keith Hernandez which was a perfectly cromulent choice
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Nov 21, 2023 17:29
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So I'm going to be honest. I couldn't have even told you that Bernie Williams even played in the outfield. I only knew that he played for the Yankees and nothing else. Doesn't sound very famous to me. Andre Dawson owns and shouldn't be part of this conversation.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:29
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Bernie was an on base king, switch hitter and played great defense ( do not st@ me )
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Nov 21, 2023 17:31
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Eric the Mauve posted:Who are you nominating? Dawson likely won because writers weren't gonna make a guy with 0HR the mvp even though Ozzie was great that year, plus he almost hit 50 HR and writers basically seem to view HR the sane way they do wins for Cy voting (or at keast they did then) I bet if Ozzie had hit 10-15 HR he'd have won El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 17:41
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Who gives a poo poo about defense in baseball
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Nov 21, 2023 17:41
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Intruder posted:I know I'm opening a can of worms here but one of Trout's should have gone to Bregman People were wondering what it was gonna be like if Bregman won MVP. I guess we’ll never know.
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Nov 21, 2023 17:42
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Shinjobi posted:Who gives a poo poo about defense in baseball It kinda makes a huge difference! Even great pitchers can benefit enormously from having good defensive players behind them
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Nov 21, 2023 17:43
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Lance Berkman is another guy who should be in Maybe some day
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Nov 21, 2023 17:43
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gently caress Lance Berkman e: For context, Lance is one of those "Gay pride day? How about Christian pride day instead" guys
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Nov 21, 2023 17:44
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Scott rolen means big hall and I’m here for it
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Nov 21, 2023 17:46
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Poque posted:insider sources tell me that the Cubs are close to signing the hottest free agent on the market. That's right: Daniel Descalso will soon be BACK Cubs got beaten to the punch! https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1726678742939181228
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Nov 21, 2023 17:46
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Intruder posted:gently caress Lance Berkman
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Nov 21, 2023 17:50
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Intruder posted:gently caress Lance Berkman Also he's a textbook "Hall of the pretty good" guy if you ignore his personal stuff, has like 17 less WAR than Kenny Lofton
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Nov 21, 2023 17:50
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Oh Forget I said Berkman sorry
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Nov 21, 2023 17:51
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El Gallinero Gros posted:It kinda makes a huge difference! Even great pitchers can benefit enormously from having good defensive players behind them Ssh, you're ruining the bit
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Nov 21, 2023 17:52
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Dawson likely won because writers weren't gonna make a guy with 0HR the mvp even though Ozzie was great that year, plus he almost hit 50 HR and writers basically seem to view HR the sane way they do wins for Cy voting (or at keast they did then) The best player in the NL in 1987 was Tony Gwynn, who drat well should have gotten an MVP award but never did. Eric Davis would also have been a good choice. Dawson won because 1986-87 was the Winter of Collusion when free agents simply weren't signed, and Dawson very famously offered to sign a blank contract with the Cubs and let them fill in whatever salary they liked. When he then went out and hit 49 home runs with the zany bouncy ball of 1987 the writers all swooned like lovestruck teenagers. It was the biggest individual story in baseball since Fernandomania. They didn't even care that Dawson's team finished dead last. It was an unusual confluence of circumstances. Gonzalez in 1996 is a much more straightforward example of the voters just being dumber than the average bear. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 17:56
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Sydin posted:Cubs got beaten to the punch! I'm betrayed!!!!!
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Nov 21, 2023 17:59
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Eric the Mauve posted:The best player in the NL in 1987 was Tony Gwynn, who drat well should have gotten an MVP award but never did. Eric Davis would also have been a good choice. I mean you don't have to sell me on Tony's greatness, he's neck and neck with Ichiro for the best contact hitter I've ever seen (Also Eric Davis is deeply underrated)
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Nov 21, 2023 18:02
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I went to a music school in Boston and whenever the Yankees came to town, Bernie Williams would stop by the school and jam with the professors. He's quite the jazz guitarist.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:25
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Lance berkman may be a stupid regressive prick. But I’ll never forget his single in the 10th in game 6, and the totally unsurprised, nonplussed look on his face while he was standing at first. His beard was extremely repulsive too lol
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Nov 21, 2023 18:38
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I remember Lance Berkman mostly for the way he always managed to make a major league uniform look like he'd slept in it
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Nov 21, 2023 18:40
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https://twitter.com/dennistlin/status/1727005230368493636 Better than Nevin.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:41
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Lance Berkman is a piece of poo poo but he is one of the few people in sports that has successfully given himself a nickname (and a pretty good one at that).
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Nov 21, 2023 18:46
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Bregor posted:Did anyone who watched baseball in the 90s/00s ever think “Scott Rolen is one of the best players in baseball”? Like maybe? If a ran through a few dozen other names first? Rolen looked like the second coming of Schmidt, and ended up being very good offensively and great defensively, but his body broke down quicker than expected. His exit from Philadelphia and subsequent jumping around means he doesn't have the huge support base he would have gotten if he'd stayed put. By the Jack Morris measuring stick, he's certainly a Hall of Famer. The problem is that he's getting a lot of credit for his very good defense, but we can't look at data on third basemen from a lot of history, because there's nothing available outside of box scores and audio recordings. You can compare him against his contemporaries, but as good as he was, Beltre is even better.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:56
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Red posted:Rolen looked like the second coming of Schmidt, and ended up being very good offensively and great defensively, but his body broke down quicker than expected. His exit from Philadelphia and subsequent jumping around means he doesn't have the huge support base he would have gotten if he'd stayed put. By the Jack Morris measuring stick, he's certainly a Hall of Famer.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:14
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Rolen and Edmonds should be left out of the HoF because it makes Cardinals fans mad, any additional reasoning is entirely superfluous.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:22
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FanGraphs and Baseball Reference both have him at +70 WAR, which clears the standard bar by ten wins.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:22
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euphronius posted:Bernie is as good or better than Kirby Puckett I know your bit is having stupider takes than mcmagic but you overshot it here, it's just not a believable bit anymore after you say this. there is no possible way you're actually that loving stupid, you'd have died in some ridiculously brain dead accident 2,923 times a decade if you're actually so dumb you believe this
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Nov 21, 2023 19:27
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bawfuls posted:yes Beltre was even better, which is why he has a 20+ WAR lead on Rolen. Beltre also played 21 years and has a shot at becoming the second unanimous induction, so it's perfectly reasonable for Rolen to be a HoF'er while still falling short of the lofty standard Beltre set. You definitely don't have to stoop to "the Jack Morris measuring stick" for Rolen to qualify. Absolutely to all of that, but I think Beltre is even better than people realize. I remember a lot of people thought he had fallen apart when he got to Seattle, but he was playing in a pitcher's park, and he was still performing better than he had as a Dodger save one amazing season. He should be a unanimous induction for sure.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:33
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It's amazing how everyone's just decided to never talk about what a terrible human being Kirby Puckett was.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:34
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He was unremarkable to sport writers in guess
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Nov 21, 2023 19:38
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https://twitter.com/JeffFletcherOCR/status/1727033344645603465 I hear Matt Canada is available
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Nov 21, 2023 19:50
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live with fruit posted:It's amazing how everyone's just decided to never talk about what a terrible human being Kirby Puckett was. Most of that stuff didn't come out until after he was forced to retire. Before then, most people ignored it because they needed Kirby Puckett, baseball hero man. Having an "Aw, shucks" face of the franchise is good for business.
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Nov 21, 2023 19:57
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The Cardinals are signing Kyle Gibson
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Nov 21, 2023 19:59
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live with fruit posted:It's amazing how everyone's just decided to never talk about what a terrible human being Kirby Puckett was. I, an irredeemable Twins homer, think Kirby Puckett was a massive piece of poo poo. He was, unfortunately, a very good baseball player. These two things are simultaneously true and are not mutually exclusive. But I would absolutely retroactively remove him from the HoF if we could enact a morals clause. Horrible person != Face for baseball as a sport.
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Nov 21, 2023 20:26
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Do the same with Robbie Alomar
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Nov 21, 2023 20:31
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FlamingLiberal posted:The Cardinals are signing Kyle Gibson Good dude, bad team, no clue if he's still good. I hope so, even if gently caress the Cards
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Nov 21, 2023 20:36
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Red posted:Most of that stuff didn't come out until after he was forced to retire. Before then, most people ignored it because they needed Kirby Puckett, baseball hero man. Having an "Aw, shucks" face of the franchise is good for business. He also died pretty soon after the allegations came out and it was still in the early phases of sports on the internet
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Nov 21, 2023 20:51
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I hate this dogshit garbage front office
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Nov 21, 2023 20:55
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Mozeliak is doing a press conference today and I think I can make it to St. Louis in time to throw my shoes at him.
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Nov 21, 2023 20:56
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