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Evil_Greven posted:Over a year on my '23 Volvo XC40 Recharge and it still owns. How do you feel about the value of the XC40? I seriously considered it, however optioning it out to the Mach-E Premium specs put it at around a $8K premium. It felt nicer, just not that nicer with the Mach-E already feeling like a well built car using good materials.
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Nov 22, 2023 03:26
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Indiana_Krom posted:Basically you take two identical batteries, run one in full 100%-0%-100% cycles and it will reach its end of useful life (70% its original capacity) in about 1000 "cycles" or something like 5000 kWh worth of energy delivered. Now take the same battery, cycle it only though 55%-45%-55% and it will reach 5000 "cycles" before degrading to 70% capacity, or 25,000 kWh worth of energy delivered. I am entirely certain that this is not accurate.
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Nov 22, 2023 11:39
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Elviscat posted:I am entirely certain that this is not accurate. https://www.saft.com/energizing-iot/lithium-ion-batteries-use-5-more-tips-longer-lifespan https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/10779/official-depth-of-discharge-recommendations-for-li.html Scroll down to the depth of discharge graphs/charts.
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Nov 22, 2023 13:02
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I don't really care to argue the point, but the first one's the only one that shows near a 5x lifetime for low DoD rates, and I can't see anywhere if that one's normalized cycles, or gross charging cycles. Charging your battery less, and not to the extremes, is objectively better for it though.
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Nov 22, 2023 13:10
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The 5x is an exaggeration to make the point, not an actual number it will deliver. But the differences between deep cycling and short cycling a lithium battery are still pretty significant on the lifespan and you can find studies all over that show it.
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Nov 22, 2023 13:22
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Indiana_Krom posted:The 5x is an exaggeration to make the point, not an actual number it will deliver. lol ok
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Nov 22, 2023 13:47
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I see some vehicles have different numbers for battery capacity, something like "64 kw of useful capacity vs 70kw of actual hardware". Is that to prevent people from charging to 100% while still seeing 100% on their screen?
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Nov 22, 2023 14:30
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It's an interesting discussion that I hadn't really considered. Obviously my commute is going to be about half the practical capacity each way, so if I want to avoid this degradation risk it means stopping near my work on my morning commute (again, my work due to regulations is unlikely to offer free onsite charging anytime soon) and doing a charge from ~50 to ~80%. There is a supercharger that might be convenient. Is the expected time required on the order of 15-20 minutes for that? I don't view that as too prohibitive, if I can get a coffee; I assume SC lines are probably non-existent for the morning commute (please tell me if that's inaccurate!).
Velius fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 15:08
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Indiana shared the most optimum way to game your battery life, it’s alright if you stray from this a bit. After all, we should enjoy the things we own too. I personally charge to 80% dailies even though I could do fine with 70% but I just enjoy the comfort of extra range.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:12
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Interesting, yesterday when I started up my bolt the screen froze on the user profile screen that displays when starting up. It still connected to my phone and started playing music but touching the screen did nothing. I could still change the volume with the knob and stuff so it was just some stuck ui element I guess. After long pressing the power button on the volume knob enough times it seemed to finally come unstuck. But the volume control on the steering wheel didn't work anymore. Turning the car off and on again got it back to normal fortunately. Ahh the future of cars as a service I guess.
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Nov 22, 2023 15:30
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Indiana_Krom posted:My 2020 non-heatpump 3 performance (with 18" wheels == "stealth performance") would be dangerously close to 100-0% over a 220 mile trip in winter. While the trip is technically possible in most cases, one also needs to consider that 100%-0%-100% battery cycles are significantly more stressful to the pack than 80%-20%-80% cycles which are also more stressful than 70%-30%-70% cycles. Or really, the closer you are to 50% at all times the longer the pack will last in terms of total distance traveled. A "cycle" in a battery is the equivalent of charging and then discharging its entire capacity, so it would take 10 times of running between 45% and 55% before you would reach "1 cycle" on the pack, but that one cycle would still be significantly less wear than doing it all at once. Modern EVs will not let you fully drain a battery. They will let you fully charge it, though many let you place max charge limiters, or default to them with the ability to override in preparation for long rides. Even if you do fully charge, as long as you don't leave it fully charged for long it won't have a significant deleterious effect on the lifespan of the battery.
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Nov 22, 2023 16:20
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Ok, after that glowing review of a Mach E GT ... Anyone have an Ioniq 5 and care to share thoughts on it? The 5 N is out early next year and looks enticing. Figure I'll get the disappointment now and ask, like I did with the Mach E Rally.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:11
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Speaking of the Ionia 5N a recent ars article talks about the fake noise and shifting and it actually sounds pretty fun tbh  https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/11/after-driving-the-hyundai-ioniq-5-n-i-finally-get-ev-engine-sounds/
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Nov 22, 2023 17:17
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Looks like I’m picking up a Lightning on Friday. Are there any goon recommended resources for baby’s first ev? I’ve got two dealers competing for my business and one has the Ford mobile charger and one doesn’t. It seems like the Ford charger isn’t really recommended (especially for $500) so is there a recommended mobile evse? Both trucks have the extended range package so I should get the 80amp Ford wall unit but I’ll need something in the meantime and for possibly stealing a little electricity from my parents when we’re out of town.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:28
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priznat posted:Speaking of the Ionia 5N a recent ars article talks about the fake noise and shifting and it actually sounds pretty fun tbh All the press from this event is what clued me into this being something I might like.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:46
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The 5 N looks cool. I'm sorta hoping they wither on lots like the EV6 GT so I can get one for a deal.
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Nov 22, 2023 18:52
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The EV6 GT just doesn't seem appealing to me at all. So, I see why those sit. The 5 N has some of the neat styling from the N Vision concept which I like. I went to the dealer to just look at one of the four 5s the website listed as in stock to get a sense for the size and shape of it. They have zero in stock, which I really should have seen coming, but it's been a long time since I've had a normal buying a car interaction. My last purchase in 2020 was: go in to ask about different options because I'm thinking about maybe replacing my car, find out they have a special edition arriving in the next few days that was basically designed to appeal to me, go to lunch to think about it, go back to put down a deposit and find out it arrived while I was at lunch. Anyway, I looked at the 6 a bit in the showroom, but it was not informative at all. They threw the newbie sales guy at me, so every question I had was "let me go check." Anyone order from Hyundai before? I'm familiar with ordering Subarus, and I've heard about what ordering Toyotas is like. I'm hoping Hyundai is more Subaru than Toyota.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:43
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Apparently you’ll soon be able to order a Hyundai on Amazon, if that appeals to you.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:53
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The ev6 looks poo poo
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Nov 22, 2023 22:16
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I prefer the Ioniq styling to the ev6 too but a lot of people go the other way. I think the EV9 looks pretty good tho!
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Nov 22, 2023 22:17
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Indiana_Krom posted:The 5x is an exaggeration to make the point, not an actual number it will deliver. But the differences between deep cycling and short cycling a lithium battery are still pretty significant on the lifespan and you can find studies all over that show it. I don't ride my electric motorcycle enough to care about babying the battery. For an electric car, I'd just trade it in before it ran out of warranty, and in the interim just charge it as normal, i.e. not baby it.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:38
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Talorat posted:Apparently you’ll soon be able to order a Hyundai on Amazon, if that appeals to you.
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Nov 22, 2023 23:01
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Nfcknblvbl posted:It’s true! I used to own a 2018 Model 3, and I had to pay $3,000 for basic autopilot. Current owners still have to pay up if they want it. I owned a 2019 Model 3 and it also did not come with autopilot. Just basic cruise control for a few years. I was not about to pay $3000 but when Tesla restarted their referral program it was offered as a reward. I had a friend buying a new model 3 and I used the credit to unlock basic autopilot. It’s neat technology but I would have been quite annoyed if I had paid the full $3000 for it. I also have friends who bought FSD and they regret spending the $$$ on the upgrade. To the person considering a model 3 I would look at used versus new after tax incentives. I don’t think any model 3 is guaranteed to making your long commute without some charging. My Model 3 was rated at 240 miles range but there are a lot of caveats. For every day driving I loved my model 3 but trips over 170 miles round trip required planning. Maybe rent one on Turo and try the route? ABRP is a great resource too: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/
mysteryberto fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 23:24
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Velius posted:It's an interesting discussion that I hadn't really considered. Obviously my commute is going to be about half the practical capacity each way, so if I want to avoid this degradation risk it means stopping near my work on my morning commute (again, my work due to regulations is unlikely to offer free onsite charging anytime soon) and doing a charge from ~50 to ~80%. There is a supercharger that might be convenient. Is the expected time required on the order of 15-20 minutes for that? I don't view that as too prohibitive, if I can get a coffee; I assume SC lines are probably non-existent for the morning commute (please tell me if that's inaccurate!). Yeah, recharging at both ends of the commute will significantly reduce the wear and tear on the battery and extend the service life of the vehicle. Supercharging from 25% to 75% when you get to your destination, then driving home and L2 charging from 25% again back to 75% will minimize degradation and keep the vehicle doing the trip comfortably for as long as possible. The main downside is that supercharging is usually at least double the cost of L2 charging at home. If you ever wonder why your cell phone battery is complete crap after just a couple years, it is because it is doing a deep cycle or two basically every day and after a couple years that is pushing 1000 cycles. EV batteries are pretty much the same chemistry and bound by the same physics, but with some care the packs can last a decade or more by keeping them to modest or small depths of discharge and near the nominal voltage. A cellphone battery can't last that long because it is designed to be as small as possible while still powering the phone and thus pretty much has to deep cycle, a battery that was big enough to not need to deep cycle would make your cell phone twice as thick and twice as heavy so nobody does it. The average EV battery on the other hand is way bigger than the average energy demands of a commute, so they can be kept closer to nominal voltage and will last a lot longer because of it.
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Nov 23, 2023 00:04
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Indiana_Krom posted:would make your cell phone twice as thick and twice as heavy so nobody does it. Sign me up. While we're at it can we have normal human hand size phones again
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Nov 23, 2023 01:28
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Indiana_Krom posted:Yeah, recharging at both ends of the commute will significantly reduce the wear and tear on the battery and extend the service life of the vehicle. Supercharging from 25% to 75% when you get to your destination, then driving home and L2 charging from 25% again back to 75% will minimize degradation and keep the vehicle doing the trip comfortably for as long as possible. The main downside is that supercharging is usually at least double the cost of L2 charging at home. Right. Is the L2 charging a parameter in the degradation? I’m renting now and could install an L2 but would have to foot the bill for the 240v install in the garage. If I have 2 or 3 days of 110v charging with minimal mileage (typically 2 miles) in between is that feasible? Or should I just foot the bill for the L2 install?
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Nov 23, 2023 01:35
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Velius posted:Right. Is the L2 charging a parameter in the degradation? I’m renting now and could install an L2 but would have to foot the bill for the 240v install in the garage. If I have 2 or 3 days of 110v charging with minimal mileage (typically 2 miles) in between is that feasible? Or should I just foot the bill for the L2 install? If it gets you back to your original charge before the next long drive L1 vs L2 makes no difference. The benefit of L2 in that case is mainly that its always more efficient than L1. That being said, where the vehicle is being stored matters in winter, if the vehicle is outside or in an unheated garage L1 charging in extreme conditions won't be able to charge the vehicle at all because the entire power output ends up going towards heating the battery and none is left over to charge the battery (cold batteries cannot be charged). I have a 48A L2 charger, and if I wake up my model 3 when it is totally cold soaked in extreme weather, it takes it upwards of 20-30 minutes of actively losing charge while heating the cabin and pack because the vehicle is able to consume ~14 kW towards heating (7 from the battery heater, 7 from the cabin heaters), while the charger can only output 11.5 kW, so the remaining 2.5 kW comes from drawing down the battery charge. (Scheduled departure bypasses that limitation by heating the battery first, then heating the cabin once the battery isn't demanding full power to maintain temperature.) Indiana_Krom fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 01:42
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carticket posted:Ok, after that glowing review of a Mach E GT ... Anyone have an Ioniq 5 and care to share thoughts on it? The 5 N is out early next year and looks enticing. Figure I'll get the disappointment now and ask, like I did with the Mach E Rally. If I assume winter performance is important to you as a New Englander, then it seems like another poor choice based on the January 2023 testing in Lapland. It came second to last barely beating VW ID.BUZZ and even clearly losing to Toyota Bz4x. The tested model was Ioniq 5 77 kWh 229 HP Premium RWD. Test conclusion: "Honestly, we expected better from Hyundai, but despite the final placement it suits for distance driving better than Toyota. About 300 kilometer range in the test cold is base good, but in the real world charging situation top speed fast charging helps a lot. Instead of EV drive train, the base car needs improvement. Chassis vibrates, the steering sticks badly, and the driving lights are no good. Fix these in the model refresh and we have something good. Good: Fast charging Bad: Cabin heater Drivability Lights "
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Nov 23, 2023 03:02
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Was the BMW the i4 or iX? Also I’m still sad the M340i isn’t available in NA in wagon form but that’s a whole other thing.
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Nov 23, 2023 03:30
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 AISS 2023: LAST CHANCE, PROCRASTINATORS!
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Nov 23, 2023 03:49
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priznat posted:Was the BMW the i4 or iX? BMW i4 eDrive40 Charged Plus Mercedes-EQ EQE 350+ Edition 1 Renault Megane E-Tech Electric 60 kWh 220 HP Iconic Nissan Ariya 63 kWh Evolve 2WD Kia Niro EV 64,8 kWh Business Luxury Toyota bZ4X Style Hyuntai Ioniq 5 77 kWh 229 HP Premium RWD Volkswagen ID. Buzz 150 kW Launch Edition 77 kWh Someone should translate these articles. I have long considered it but the effort seems daunting. The magazine has about 50 years of experience doing annual large scale winter testing and they have included EVs for the past 5 times. They are about month long tests with 15 to 20+ cars in the line up. I doubt there is another such source for this information. Here is a translated conclusion for the 2022 test. They have lot of videos in YouTube showing how they do the tests, of course in Finnish. Just search for the word "talvi". https://www.youtube.com/@tekniikanmaailma8608/videos For example this video shows differential traction testing on an ice/tarmac incline. Edit: And here is a website with graphs showing the fast charging differences in winter (blue) and summer (red) for the cars in the 2022 test. https://tekniikanmaailma.fi/talviauto-2022-osa-tayssahkoautoista-lataa-pakkasessa-kuin-kesalla-osa-hyytyvat-pahasti/ Saukkis fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 04:41
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Saukkis posted:If I assume winter performance is important to you as a New Englander, then it seems like another poor choice based on the January 2023 testing in Lapland. It came second to last barely beating VW ID.BUZZ and even clearly losing to Toyota Bz4x. Some of those complaints are fixed on the N, particularly the chassis [they apparently added welds], but I think also the steering. But more importantly, I wasn't planning to use an EV as my primary vehicle in the winter. With the range hit from cold weather and running heat, regular trips to mountains for skiing or hiking would be the better part of a charge, or more than a charge for the further ones, and the charging infrastructure is not going to be great up there. Probably use it for commuting to work and other local trips, though.
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Nov 23, 2023 11:25
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Interesting, it seems that Teslas are depreciating faster than any other car at the moment. From here https://mastodon.social/@danluu/111461756066809011 quote:It's amazing how much Teslas have depreciated over the past year. Overall (comparing like-to-like, so not including normal time-based depreciation), used cars are down 1%/2%/4% in the past 1mo/3mo/1yr, but Teslas are down 2%/6%/33%. Depreciation   Inventory graph  Looks like Polestar has almost the same 1 year numbers actually.
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Nov 23, 2023 23:08
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The customer is always a moron:
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Nov 23, 2023 23:13
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Squibbles posted:Interesting, it seems that Teslas are depreciating faster than any other car at the moment.
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Nov 23, 2023 23:14
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Yeah, Teslas also were some of the lowest/best depreciatiors for a while, too. As bad as Musk is, I'd attribute it more to availability and the general economic stress. Unless there's some corresponding brand sentiment survey.
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Nov 24, 2023 00:46
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It’s 100% due to the major price cuts in recent months
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Nov 24, 2023 00:49
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The “build your EV9” has gone live on Kia Canada and yeah those prices are pretty nuts and this is from a guy who bought a Volvo and cross shopped Audis and BMWs. I really don’t think Kia has any business playing in that price range despite me liking the sorento I have owned since 2015. Although prices are just nuts these days anyway. I think I’ll refund my deposit and just wait for deals on em.
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Nov 24, 2023 02:35
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Twerk from Home posted:The customer is always a moron: Well of course they're not talking about Fording water. That's why they bought a Model X instead of a Mach-e.
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Nov 24, 2023 03:04
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Twerk from Home posted:The customer is always a moron: Hydroplaning has nothing to do with weight distribution or aerodynamics. This rear end in a top hat is going to lose control and crash. I hope nobody else is on the receiving end when that happens.
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Nov 24, 2023 05:27
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