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Rochallor posted:Heard they're doing a remake of Rip Van Winkle where he gets woke at the end Amazing 
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Nov 22, 2023 16:54
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Open Source Idiom posted:It's been a while but I seem to remember that everyone involved were fascists and they basically underwent a violent schism in terms of how they interpreted their fascist doctrine. Just because some scientists didn't support the dalek program doesn't mean they didn't believe in racial purity and the destruction of the Other -- there's a racial purity argument to be made both for the creation of the dalek (it's the ubermensch) and for the destruction of the dalek program (#notmyubermensch). They're all bad, to the point where it's not worth working out who's better or worse. I don’t believe Genesis is allegorically talking about white supremacy, but I think it is talking allegorically about fascism generally and maybe Nazis specifically (though as you say, this is probably about aesthetics and not so much ideology). If you don’t, either, I don’t understand where there’s an argument about casting a non-white performer as a Kaled scientist? Sydney Bottocks posted:The claim that Uhura was a "token" minority on the show is laughable. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. himself begged Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show when she was considering leaving it; he told her that Uhura was a positive role model for young black children on American TV, at a time when those role models were few and far between (or, as Whoopi Goldberg said to her mother when seeing Uhura for the first time, "there's a black woman on TV and she ain't no maid"). If one of the key figures of the American Civil Rights movement of the 1960s felt that Uhura was a vital positive image for black Americans, claiming she was just a "token" is wildly misunderstanding the context of the era in which the character was created. If you want to discuss a complex issue, beginning by being dismissive, mocking, or even bullying is not a sign of that. I don’t myself think Uhura is a “token” black woman, and don’t really want to argue that point, but MLK doesn’t define what was or was not true for all Black people in 1967 (or now). Uhura’s role and her treatment on the show is subject to scrutiny and disagreement, especially when it comes to a cultural depiction. If Uhura, from a united Africa, had been depicted like Chekov was as a Russian, is that an improvement because it makes her African heritage central to her identity, or would it have made her a painful stereotype? Is Uhura written “white” across the series, making Roddenberry’s egalitarian vision of a post-racial Federation one where non-whites behave as if they were white? I can acknowledge complexity and grounds for debate, and even if I think on balance the show was a positive for representation and a blow against racist practices and depictions on TV, I can do that without being scornfully dismissive of arguments to the contrary. Babylon 5 had Dr. Franklin, whose actor repeatedly stated that he liked being able to play a character who was a doctor, not “the black doctor,” and who was defined by his profession, his status as son of a military man, and his flaws, not his race. At the same time, ST: Deep Space Nine had Sisko, who across the series had a central identity as a black father, and Avery Brooks worked hard to make him “the black commander” and to depict him within a specific racialized and cultural context. Was B5 whitewashing its main black character? Ivanova’s Russian Jewish heritage matters in multiple episodes, but Franklin’s blackness could be argued as not mattering at all. I think rather that there’s room to disagree about what kinds of depictions are better, but that it’s best when there’s enough representation that you have this range to argue about, and it’s best to see a range from cultural preservation to cultural assimilation. Get enough representation and there’s room for the gamut because nobody is resting the weight of “defining blackness” on a handful of characters. And times change. Uhura in TOS was from “Africa”; was that bad because they had her come from a continent or good because in the future Africa is united? Post OS, she’s gotten further development and is specifically from Kenya. But how much does that matter compared with Sisko being from New Orleans? That Star Trek: Strange New Worlds has developed Uhura’s background and identity far more richly than TOS doesn’t make TOS racist or bad, it illustrates how far things have come since it aired. But in turn, we can acknowledge where TOS was and discuss how, in its attempts to intervene positively in a broader context of civil rights, it wasn’t able to entirely transcend history. Of course, it’s likely that elsewhere on the Internet, there’s Who fans outraged at Davros being “canceled” who are attacking RTD for casting Mawaan Rizwan as a Kaled (“RTD is racist!”) without discussing, say, British history and Rizwan’s Pakistani heritage. They might be suspected of making a facile and bad faith argument because they don’t like change. It’s good we can have a more grounded discussion here, and if it’s sucking the oxygen out of the forum it’s because we have to wait until Saturday to have more to discuss.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:50
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Jerusalem posted:Here's a handy tip that has served me well. If somebody says,"<x> has become too "woke"" then you can safely never listen, acknowledge or care about anything they ever say ever again for the rest of eternity. Insomniacs have become too woke.
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Nov 22, 2023 19:00
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I’m still astounded by the number of people who thought ‘RTD is back, we’re getting rid of Chibnall’s wokery’’
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Nov 22, 2023 19:18
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Sydney Bottocks posted:The claim that Uhura was a "token" minority on the show is laughable. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. himself begged Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show when she was considering leaving it; he told her that Uhura was a positive role model for young black children on American TV, at a time when those role models were few and far between This story is heavily apocryphal, by the way. Nichols' version of it changed a lot over the years. It began as "I met MLK Jr once and he told me he was a fan of Star Trek" and later became "I was ready to quit Star Trek and had written my resignation when I had a chance meeting with MLK Jr and I told him I was ready to quit and he told me I couldn't possibly quit because my role meant so much, and I just couldn't let him down."
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Nov 22, 2023 19:41
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Finished journeys end and I used to not like this episode but I really enjoyed it this time compared to when it first aired! I knew what it was going into it this time, a whole bunch of rtd stuff on steroids and I was so here for it this time round. Sure the human doctor and Roses ending is a bit silly and it does ruin the end of doomsday but really.... ok that bit was still a bit tough to watch but everything else fantastic! Only three days to go to new doctor who!! Confusedslight fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 21:23
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Zaroff posted:I’m still astounded by the number of people who thought ‘RTD is back, we’re getting rid of Chibnall’s wokery’’ Rusty's brand of wokery is very different!
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Nov 22, 2023 22:56
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Chibnall’s wokery is insipidity bland, but sure it’s fine I guess. Rusty’s is militant and I want more!
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Nov 22, 2023 23:06
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Just don't forget he's also responsible for Voyage of the Damned, featuring a Kylie driving a forklift finale. That sounds so much more fun than it is.
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Nov 23, 2023 05:43
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Voyage of the Dammed is a lot of fun. Though, you know, another of RTD's disabled villains.
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Nov 23, 2023 05:44
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Open Source Idiom posted:Voyage of the Dammed is a lot of fun. I just bounced off of it so hard. I'm used to the Christmas level of goofy from RTD but there was something totally that just broke me. I think the discussion of "Bannakaffalatta"'s name was my breaking point.
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Nov 23, 2023 07:40
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Sorry, what was Chibnell's "wokery"? Finally casting a woman or doing a couple of episodes that acknowledged that some of history is about people who aren't white?
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Nov 23, 2023 09:35
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Fil5000 posted:Sorry, what was Chibnell's "wokery"? Finally casting a woman or doing a couple of episodes that acknowledged that some of history is about people who aren't white? Ah, I see you're another person who quit watching during Chibnall's run.
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Nov 23, 2023 11:51
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Fil5000 posted:Sorry, what was Chibnell's "wokery"? Finally casting a woman or doing a couple of episodes that acknowledged that some of history is about people who aren't white? Basically yes
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Nov 23, 2023 11:59
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Happy 60th birthday, Doctor Who! 
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Nov 23, 2023 12:01
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Tornhelm posted:Ah, I see you're another person who quit watching during Chibnall's run. Despite the presence of John Bishop I made it through the whole thing. MrL_JaKiri posted:Basically yes I honestly can't understand how someone can watch an era that includes the "actually Amazon are the real victims here" episode and conclude that Chibnall is more woke than the guy that wrote Queer as Folk, Cucumber/Banana/Tofu and It's a Sin.
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Nov 23, 2023 12:07
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Have discovered that my partner has barely watched any Who so I have begun inflicting Tennant's era on them. We watched Tooth and Claw yesterday and I have to say I did not remember the inexplicable kung fu monks who sort of just disappear from the plot about halfway through. What's... with them?
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Nov 23, 2023 12:27
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lines posted:Have discovered that my partner has barely watched any Who so I have begun inflicting Tennant's era on them. We watched Tooth and Claw yesterday and I have to say I did not remember the inexplicable kung fu monks who sort of just disappear from the plot about halfway through. What's... with them? They were just the werewolf's pals right?
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Nov 23, 2023 12:58
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What times does the new ep air?
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Nov 23, 2023 13:07
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6:30pm GMT, 1:30pm Eastern on D+
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Nov 23, 2023 13:12
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And from this post 2 days and 6 hours and 14 minutes aways!!
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Nov 23, 2023 13:15
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5:30am in Sydney on Sunday 
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Nov 23, 2023 13:17
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Yeah the monks were werewolf cultists who wanted to wolf Queen Victoria so they'd rule the British Empire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9fibQvAz48 Dabir fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 13:33
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The “kung-fu monks” were there because RTD thought it would be cool.
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Nov 23, 2023 13:35
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Matinee posted:The “kung-fu monks” were there because RTD thought it would be cool. I am looking forward to this energy being back.
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Nov 23, 2023 13:41
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For the sixtieth anniversary, I give you the two more horrifying words possible: "Extended Version". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgDsJTemvk8
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Nov 23, 2023 14:05
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So one bit of the werewolf monks that has been lost to time to some extent (viz: the bit in the cold opening) is the context of the BBC One Idents "Rhythm and Movement" (playlist here), used from 2002 to late 2006 (T&C being broadcast earlier that year).
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Nov 23, 2023 14:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:So one bit of the werewolf monks that has been lost to time to some extent (viz: the bit in the cold opening) is the context of the BBC One Idents "Rhythm and Movement" (playlist here), used from 2002 to late 2006 (T&C being broadcast earlier that year). Oh, those are twenty years old are they? I see. God I feel old. Also, new Who only needs to go another 8 years before it's lasted as long as old Who did, that's pretty cool.
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Nov 23, 2023 14:56
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Fil5000 posted:Oh, those are twenty years old are they? I see. God I feel old. Austin Powers would now be made about the time Austin Powers came out The "lame, dinosaur" bands Homer mentions in this scene (Grand Funk Railroad*, Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship, The Alan Parsons Project) were then more recent than the then cool modern bands from the episode (Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Cypress Hill) are now *They didn't pave the way for Jefferson Airplane, as they came first!
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Nov 23, 2023 15:14
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New Who is over, we're in the Whoniverse era now
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Nov 23, 2023 15:19
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Austin Powers would now be made about the time Austin Powers came out This is ACTUALLY how the Master became the Deadly Assasin Master you know.
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Nov 23, 2023 15:32
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If Big Finish was the Classic Series, they'd be in the Seventh Doctor's first series by now.
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Nov 23, 2023 15:43
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The_Doctor posted:Happy 60th birthday, Doctor Who! I look forward to sixty more years of arguments!
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Nov 23, 2023 15:47
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Dabir posted:Yeah the monks were werewolf cultists who wanted to wolf Queen Victoria so they'd rule the British Empire Right yeah I got that, I just wasn't sure why they did kung fu about it.
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Nov 23, 2023 15:54
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lines posted:Right yeah I got that, I just wasn't sure why they did kung fu about it.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:06
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Matinee posted:The “kung-fu monks” were there because RTD thought it would be cool. I feel like people are overlooking this perfectly reasonable explanation for 19th century kung fu monks
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Nov 23, 2023 16:08
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Fil5000 posted:I feel like people are overlooking this perfectly reasonable explanation for 19th century kung fu monks Oh to be clear this has given me all the explanation I needed.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:11
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Clip from Saturday! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt59CHiFZcA Podcast trailer… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJeIo9VBwts
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Nov 23, 2023 16:14
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I honestly don't like much of 10's run, but I am VERY excited about Tennant and Tate being back together loving around with space and time.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:15
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egon_beeblebrox posted:I honestly don't like much of 10's run, but I am VERY excited about Tennant and Tate being back together loving around with space and time. I feel similarly, there's a lot of 10 episodes that I can happily skip but there's nothing quite like Tennant grinning like a lunatic, or going "Wellllll...", or Donna being outraged at something.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:18
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