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Eh, the semi-limits are largely consistency hits, sure, but Delicious to 2 does mean you can't guarantee it off My Friend and Purrely to 2 puts a bit of a ceiling on the engine. Kind of a slap on the wrist for the current best deck yeah but it's not nothing. Fountain to 1 and Diameter to 1 matter quite a bit too. Diameter to 1 also means if you Bystial it they can't send or search another one with Terahertz/etc. It's not a very high impact list but I thought it was like, fine.
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Nov 22, 2023 06:55
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TaurusOxford posted:Good news guys! New MD Banlist! Ah, yes. Torbie alone is the secret to Lab consistency. At least hit Stovie too while you're in there.
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Nov 22, 2023 06:57
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TaurusOxford posted:It's completely worthless! Not completely. Consistency hits to Mathmech and Runick is more fragile. Also, Purrely has less consistency and can no longer guarantee plump into noir with the standard combo. I do find it funny that Drident is now completely unlimited in Master Duel when it is forbidden in all other formats.
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Nov 22, 2023 07:14
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I play Purrely, and like, it is a legit hit, it's just kinda the worst hit, because it's gonna gently caress me over in like, maybe 10% of games, do nothing in 85% of games, and stop me for hitting for 150k LP in the top 5% of games. Hits to the number 1 deck probably shouldn't make me go "okay, do I add one evenly and a droll or just 2 drolls to the old decklist and keep playing it the exact same way and just lose more games because of randomness"
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Nov 22, 2023 10:04
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Wild to see a MD banlist without some additional unjust hit to Floo as has been custom.
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Nov 22, 2023 13:43
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Cobalt Sparrow is back at 3, we're so back....
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Nov 22, 2023 14:38
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TheFlyingLlama posted:I play Purrely, and like, it is a legit hit, it's just kinda the worst hit, because it's gonna gently caress me over in like, maybe 10% of games, do nothing in 85% of games, and stop me for hitting for 150k LP in the top 5% of games. even if it's the best deck they aren't going to totally murder it when the last support cards haven't come out yet once ep-noir drops you'll probably see tcg/ocg-style hits like Delicious 1/Sleepy 2
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Nov 23, 2023 15:59
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I don't think they should heavily hit the number 1 meta deck just because it's the number 1 meta deck. If it's doing something oppressive like says, the Kash 9 zone lock combo yeah break that but the point of the banlist is to keep the game from totally breaking down not just try to shuffle who's the #1 meta pet deck of the month. Smaller hits to lower the consistency without just destroying the decks ceiling is fine. I think the game would be very bad if every banlist made me go from enjoying a deck to not wanting to play it at all instead of just taking my lumps from weaker hits and playing some more non engine or sub optimal in archetype cards. Goddamn look what happened to spright. It just kept getting hard whacked and now it's just an engine for runik like half of the archetypes in the game now. Also it's purrely a deck that loses to a single kaiju. It's not that scary. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 16:54
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Consistency hits are something Konami does a lot in ocg/MD and I honestly don't like it. They don't address the problematic parts of a deck that make it too strong, they just make the deck less fun to play as you get more and more bricks as they incrementally hit it until people get too fed up to keep playing it.
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Nov 23, 2023 17:09
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Syenite posted:Consistency hits are something Konami does a lot in ocg/MD and I honestly don't like it. They don't address the problematic parts of a deck that make it too strong, they just make the deck less fun to play as you get more and more bricks as they incrementally hit it until people get too fed up to keep playing it. As opposed to what? Hitting a core part of it hard so it's ceiling is brought lower and then....losing more because of it? Like even the tcg purrely hits are just major consistency hits. Like what makes purrely "Too Strong" that can be totally removed that also won't just kill the deck outright compared to the #2 and 3 decks in the meta?
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Nov 23, 2023 17:13
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purrely isnt really a consistency hit, it's a gas hit. purrely (as in the card) is ridiculously searchable in-archetype, the real issue is that without the trap card you can only do the soft-OPT excavate twice delicious being a 66% chance instead of a 100% is more consistency, but i think the result is that purrely will have to think about more lines than "plump set noir" which is probably healthy
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Nov 23, 2023 17:13
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Feels Villeneuve posted:purrely isnt really a consistency hit, it's a gas hit. purrely (as in the card) is ridiculously searchable in-archetype, the real issue is that without the trap card you can only do the soft-OPT excavate twice I mean, hitting gas is hitting the decks consistency. Taking away extension and follow up means losing ability to play through or around interaction and that's a consistency hit. And yeah I agree the hit to delicious making them have a good chance of having to find another line and end board is pretty good. It's why the smaller hits to non-toxic decks like this work better.
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Nov 23, 2023 17:15
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yeah but i think what people really complain about with consistency is poo poo like "topdecking the one-of Circular" feeling excessively sacky. like every card in purrely is searchable so i don't think it's turning the deck into "topdeck the insta-win card" like people sometimes complain about other limits. anyway it's going to be interesting to see lines of play after delicious-to-two but before ep-noir. i'd like to see what actual good players (not me) do with that ratio, i'm assuming a lot more usages of Purrleyeap
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Nov 23, 2023 17:21
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by the way purrely mirror matches where poo poo like "4x Sleepy" can happen are completely hilarious
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Nov 23, 2023 17:22
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They need to unfuck floo also. It's gotten so bad I'm playing Snowl.
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Nov 23, 2023 17:38
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honestly im glad for more uses of leap because i get to do the hilarious "draw 4 on your turn" move more often its my first tier 1 deck ive played as it was tier 1 so im gonna milk it as much as i can
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Nov 23, 2023 17:42
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purrely's biggest weakness is that i have lost twice on timeout
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Nov 23, 2023 17:43
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Purrely's biggest weakness is that kaiju's aren't hard opts so I can radian, dracoback radian again then do full PLunder combo.
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Nov 23, 2023 17:47
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everyone gangsta til i flip Mask of Restrict
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Nov 23, 2023 17:48
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https://twitter.com/ScaryMasterDuel/status/1706408440170451403
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Nov 23, 2023 17:55
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:As opposed to what? Hitting a core part of it hard so it's ceiling is brought lower and then....losing more because of it? Like even the tcg purrely hits are just major consistency hits. Like what makes purrely "Too Strong" that can be totally removed that also won't just kill the deck outright compared to the #2 and 3 decks in the meta? I mean, the core of the problem is really always card design. Konami releases pushed new cards to sell product, then kneecaps them when there's new pushed cards to sell. I'm not sure there's a best banlist strategy when the issue is the cards, but I much prefer when when they hit a deck's grind (like arise-heart/fountain to 1) or in other ways that hurt being able to extend through multiple interactions, or otherwise easily recover from your opponent being able to play the game. Hitting a deck's ability to access their engine in the first place just makes the deck more frustrating to play rather than making games more fun.
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Nov 23, 2023 18:08
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Syenite posted:I mean, the core of the problem is really always card design. Konami releases pushed new cards to sell product, then kneecaps them when there's new pushed cards to sell. I'm not sure there's a best banlist strategy when the issue is the cards, but I much prefer when when they hit a deck's grind (like arise-heart/fountain to 1) or in other ways that hurt being able to extend through multiple interactions, or otherwise easily recover from your opponent being able to play the game. "Hitting their grind" with that Arise-Heart doesn't actually stop the issue with that deck though. Like this mindset solves none of the problems Like in that example they can still basically almost always easily get to arise-heart and...that's kind of game for many decks. It should just be banned but also hitting their consistency means letting your opponent have a better chance of actually playing the game since they might be able to set up anything before you slap Kill down on the board. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 18:12
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:"Hitting their grind" with that Arise-Heart doesn't actually stop the issue with that deck though. Like this mindset solves none of the problems And I don't think hitting consistency until everyone who likes it throws up their hands and quits playing it really solves the problems either. I'm not enough of a pro player to know how to best get around the fact that Konami just prints cards too strong in the first place, I just prefer when hits don't make decks incredibly frustrating to play because half your hands are bricks.
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Nov 23, 2023 18:17
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it's weird because i always thought the TCG banlist was far more likely to completely murder a deck outright and make the cards worthless, than keep it playable
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Nov 23, 2023 18:23
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anyway purrely is a bad example here because a) the deck is insanely consistent, unless you open all three copies of imperm you're gonna have plays, and b) it *is* a peak power hit because even if they do make Noir, it'll likely be with fewer mats, meaning it's far more likely to only be able to spin once until it loses its 5x material effect protection
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Nov 23, 2023 18:27
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Feels Villeneuve posted:it's weird because i always thought the TCG banlist was far more likely to completely murder a deck outright and make the cards worthless, than keep it playable From a certain perspective maybe it's better to just murder a deck than it is to torture people with bricks until they quit playing it. 
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Nov 23, 2023 18:31
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Feels Villeneuve posted:it's weird because i always thought the TCG banlist was far more likely to completely murder a deck outright and make the cards worthless, than keep it playable It often is.
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Nov 23, 2023 18:31
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Syenite posted:From a certain perspective maybe it's better to just murder a deck than it is to torture people with bricks until they quit playing it. if the accusation is that the banlist is used to push product (which is probably true to an extent) than murdering a deck and making your cards suddenly be $1 a pop is far worse (or "better") than making a deck playable as a rogue or engine option
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Nov 23, 2023 18:33
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Feels Villeneuve posted:if the accusation is that the banlist is used to push product (which is probably true to an extent) than murdering a deck and making your cards suddenly be $1 a pop is far worse (or "better") than making a deck playable as a rogue or engine option Yeah it's definitely not good either way. Maybe one day Konami will implement set rotation and can tone down new cards to be less format-warping.
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Nov 23, 2023 18:37
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like every TCG that implemented rotation either had a massive backlash from the fanbase, or outright died. like literally Pokemon TCG is the only one i can think of where it "worked" and even that one caused a lot of outcry. MTG Standard is the least popular format of that game by a longshot
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Nov 23, 2023 18:39
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Unban everything then ban one card a week until the game is balanced
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Nov 23, 2023 18:51
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they should just implement the dlinks banlist style across the board. now instead of hitting a deck's consistency, the first hit can just be revoking access to power staples while leaving the core of the deck untouched
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Nov 23, 2023 18:59
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Introducing set rotation twenty-five years after the game's initial release would be incredibly stupid on Konami's part. It would become an entirely different game and Konami would have to reinvent their entire way of designing cards and sets.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:01
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every rogue deck user complains when they limit stuff like Extrav though
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Nov 23, 2023 19:01
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Skeleton Mom posted:they should just implement the dlinks banlist style across the board. now instead of hitting a deck's consistency, the first hit can just be revoking access to power staples while leaving the core of the deck untouched Hmm yes when I think of fun deck building and gameplay I think of Duel Links.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:05
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my casual toon deck never recovered from the terraforming ban....
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Nov 23, 2023 19:08
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Vandar posted:Introducing set rotation twenty-five years after the game's initial release would be incredibly stupid on Konami's part. I guess konami's strategy is to keep doing what they're doing until their playerbase finally gets sick of the insane place the power creep took the game, then give them Rush Duels as an alternative
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Nov 23, 2023 19:15
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"I'll rotate a thousand sets before I localize Rush Duels!" - Tewart, maybe
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Nov 23, 2023 19:19
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I'm glad for it. The game is more fun than it's been in a long long time in paper (outside of pricing on a few decks).
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Nov 23, 2023 19:22
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yeah like power in this game right now is far more about interruptions/quick effects than it is the one-card combo ending with some combo of Accesscode/BDF/BSD that i think really put a lot of people off the game and it's much better for it except mathmechs in MD can gently caress off
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Nov 23, 2023 19:25
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