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I replaced six 10TB white label (shucked) WD Red drives with refurbished Exos X18 16TBs from serverpartdeals.com back in February. They do run hotter and louder, but it's not exactly a mystery why since the previous drives were 5400RPM and these are 7200. I have some fairly powerful fans on them, so they stay cool and I can't hear them over the fan whir. Haven't had any failures or media errors yet. I have them set to never spin down, so I doubt cycle count will be a problem.
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Nov 21, 2023 15:26
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Eletriarnation posted:I have some fairly powerful fans But do you really feel alive if you're not at risk of losing a finger?
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Nov 21, 2023 15:40
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The thing about Exos drives is that unless you're the type of nerd like me who spends hours reading specs sheets, they're probably not right for you. Weird take. Seagate uses Exos drives in some of its externals, I know as I've shucked a bunch. They're in very non-nerd hands in external form.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:15
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I think the implication on the drives is that minor serial number differences are big differences in features and quality.
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Nov 21, 2023 16:43
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 As much as I'd love the performance, my NAS lives in my bedroom's closet so even what I have is throttled back a bit to keep the noise tolerable.MJP posted:Hoofed it over to the router and confirmed that indeed it's no better there. Unfortunately it also confirmed that it caused my Kodi box to hang when I asked it to play a 1gb file, so I'm guessing 2014 tech might have its limits elsewhere. Getting a NAS appliance which can hold multiple drives and transcode for under $200 may be hard, but I'm not that familiar with the appliance market so someone else could have a better idea. You can definitely build it that cheap, though probably not mini-ITX. Supermicro X10SLL-F - micro-ATX, LGA1150, 6x SATA - $30: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285414185179 Xeon E3-1225v3 - LGA1150, quad-core, ECC support - $10: https://www.ebay.com/itm/235292720577 Samsung DDR3 UDIMMs - 8GB, 1333MT/s, ECC - $7 x 2: https://www.ebay.com/itm/375043324387 (You don't need 2, but at this price you might as well so you can use a RAMdisk for transcoding - also you could spend more for 1600MT/s but it probably doesn't matter.) You have $146 left for PSU, case, and a CPU heatsink if you don't have a spare for this socket already. The E3-1225v3 is capable of software transcoding one stream no problem in my experience. It has an IGP with a hardware encoder, but the Supermicro board won't support it so you should go with a consumer platform (probably newer than 4th gen, too) if you want that. You can pop in a Quadro P400 for $40 though to get a hardware encoder on this platform, and I'd rather have ECC + out of band management if I have to choose. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 16:45
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HalloKitty posted:Weird take. Seagate uses Exos drives in some of its externals, I know as I've shucked a bunch. They're in very non-nerd hands in external form. That's precisely why you need to pay attention to the specifications, because most people don't expect them to run hotter, louder, and also have weird behaviour when it comes to firmware like the spindown settings mentioned upthread. MJP posted:Hoofed it over to the router and confirmed that indeed it's no better there. Unfortunately it also confirmed that it caused my Kodi box to hang when I asked it to play a 1gb file, so I'm guessing 2014 tech might have its limits elsewhere. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 21, 2023 |
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Nov 21, 2023 19:59
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I have 4x14TB and 1x18TB Exos drives and noise wise they don't seem that bad. Some of that might be because my case has decent sound dampening, but IIRC a somewhat recent 8TB 5640 rpm WD Blue I had had significantly worse noises when reading or writing.
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Nov 21, 2023 22:15
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TrueNAS question, the upgrade for Immich isn't working because it's not passing along the HostPaths. It seems like there was a big upgrade between 1.85 to 1.86, with that I was thinking of reinstalling it but when I click edit to the options, it doesn't show me what I set up before. Is that information stored in a file somewhere I can look at?
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Nov 22, 2023 00:20
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What do you all consider good temps for drives? My synology has 7x Seagate IronWolf 10TB drives sitting at about 30C/86F. Thats basically the temp of a normal warm day. Where do you start getting worried about them? Should I be shooting more for ambient (which in my basement is around 65F)?
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Nov 22, 2023 03:14
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The 8 drives of various makes in my NAS are running 40-50C and have been for years. Ambient is ~72F. 30C is fine.
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Nov 22, 2023 03:21
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12 drives shoved into a Fractal case with Noctuas sitting at 30-35C. Now my m.2 NVMe drives close to the motherboard…. I’ve seen those hit 75-85C.
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Nov 22, 2023 04:02
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Beve Stuscemi posted:What do you all consider good temps for drives? From what I recall enterprise studies of HDDs show a sharp uptick in failure rates past 50C, or below 20C. 30 is pretty ideal. e: Check this if you want to go deeper: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-temperature-does-it-matter/
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Nov 22, 2023 04:32
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That blog is nearly a decade old and the maximum drive temp is only 38C. Their most recent stats cover drives going over the manufacturer's maximum temperature of either 55C or 60C, with a failure rate of only two drives in 354. Looks like they're going to flag and track these drives separately going forward as well to see if it negatively impacts reliability.
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Nov 22, 2023 04:51
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Eletriarnation posted:If you're OK with refurbished, $160: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155636746868
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Nov 22, 2023 07:37
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:A refurbished Seagate drive is OK for some people. In the same way that nailing your testicles to a plank is, in fact, OK for some people. Everything's surely backed up (of course! Who doesn't run backups?), so it doesn't matter. It's not like it's a sketchy $20 "2 TB" usb drive that overwrites your data in a 2GB loop
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Nov 22, 2023 12:21
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:A refurbished Seagate drive is OK for some people. In the same way that nailing your testicles to a plank is, in fact, OK for some people. I just told you I've been running six of them for months with zero issues so clearly they are OK for some people, but nah  you had a bad drive once so I'm sure that multi-billion-dollar hard drive company has no idea what they're doing.Like HalloKitty said, if you really care you have backups and if you even half care you're running a RAID. What are you scared of, your hard drives joining a union and half of the array quitting at once? Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Nov 22, 2023 |
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Nov 22, 2023 12:37
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calandryll posted:TrueNAS question, the upgrade for Immich isn't working because it's not passing along the HostPaths. It seems like there was a big upgrade between 1.85 to 1.86, with that I was thinking of reinstalling it but when I click edit to the options, it doesn't show me what I set up before. Is that information stored in a file somewhere I can look at? Looks like it fixed itself, I'm guessing they pushed out an update to fix it.
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Nov 22, 2023 13:02
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Nailing your testicles to a board is wonderful i don’t know what you’re implying
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Nov 22, 2023 14:49
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Heads-up, OpenZFS 2.2.0 seems to have a block cloning bug that leads to data corruption. Users are advised to upgrade to 2.2.1, where it is disabled by default. 2.1.x users are unaffected.
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Nov 22, 2023 17:05
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Nam Taf posted:Heads-up, OpenZFS 2.2.0 seems to have a block cloning bug that leads to data corruption. Users are advised to upgrade to 2.2.1, where it is disabled by default. 2.1.x users are unaffected. Whoa, that is one really nasty bug. I also noticed in the release notes they patched another issue where ZFS would use block cloning from an unencrypted to encrypted file system and kernel panic on attempted read. Really happy to not be an early adopter of this feature.
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Nov 22, 2023 18:06
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This isn’t going to be fun to fit.
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Nov 22, 2023 18:39
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Just have a run-up, you'll be fine
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Nov 22, 2023 19:08
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I'm going to start a business selling third party case sides that give you an inch of extra room behind the motherboard.
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Nov 23, 2023 00:04
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VelociBacon posted:I'm going to start a business selling third party case sides that give you an inch of extra room behind the motherboard. The husky side panel.
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Nov 23, 2023 02:15
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Spent a good while trying to figure out why one of my 10tb drives (Toshiba MG06xxx) was so much hotter than the rest (by 10c), only to figure out it's not a helium drive and helium is a better conductor of heat than normal air. Mystery solved I guess, should have done more research before buying it. Vvv thank you for the explanation!! I've learned something new today. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 07:54
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:Spent a good while trying to figure out why one of my 10tb drives (Toshiba MG06xxx) was so much hotter than the rest (by 10c), only to figure out it's not a helium drive and helium is a better conductor of heat than normal air. Helium is a worse conductor of heat than regular air; the reason it runs cooler is because helium is way less dense and therefore induces way less drag on the platters. Less friction, less heat. Helium does have relatively good heat conductivity though, especially for its density HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 10:17
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I'm sort of surprised we can get helium to stay in drives considering it eventually exits most other containers
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Nov 23, 2023 15:59
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The trick is probably keeping it at standard pressure, the air would also need to get in to balance the pressure.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:31
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There's even a line in the smart details showing the level of helium in the drives too. Made me chuckle the first time I spotted it.
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Nov 23, 2023 17:00
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Beve Stuscemi posted:I'm sort of surprised we can get helium to stay in drives considering it eventually exits most other containers Beyond that is probably an entirely different story.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:12
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Well, there's nothing really special about the material that Helium drives are made of, that can somehow contain it - so I suspect that the answer is that the amount that leaks isn't sufficient to matter for however long the real customers of Helium drives run them for. Do helium drives not last as long? We're all buying helium drives now, right? Isn't everything over 16TB helium right now? It's wild to me that SMR seems to have mostly disappeared, as well as lower RPM drives. I guess those segments just weren't worth servicing so it's 7200RPM helium drives for everyone.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:16
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Helium drives are totally fine. They'll hold enough to go far beyond the useful life of the drives or it wouldn't be used in the first place. Got me wondering if they still work ok without the helium, just not as well. BRB, gonna smack a hole on one of mine.... YerDa Zabam fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 19:23
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If the drive is actually air tight and Helium molecules diffuse out of it due to quantum tunneling or whatever bullshit, shouldn't it just drop the inside pressure and maintain the low drag environment?
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Nov 23, 2023 19:30
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Twerk from Home posted:Do helium drives not last as long? We're all buying helium drives now, right? Isn't everything over 16TB helium right now? I've got like 14 helium drives in my NAS with over 7 years power on hours, only one is throwing a SMART error for the helium level getting low. They're all ex data centre drives.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:49
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Is there a way to top off the helium in a drive? I know the answer is "probably not" but that would be an interesting bit of computer janitoring to do every couple of years.
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Nov 24, 2023 00:29
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Coxswain Balls posted:Is there a way to top off the helium in a drive? I know the answer is "probably not" but that would be an interesting bit of computer janitoring to do every couple of years. Holding your drive carefully upside down above you,
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Nov 24, 2023 00:31
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Suckin on my hdd to get a squeaky voice rn
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Nov 24, 2023 04:19
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Coxswain Balls posted:Is there a way to top off the helium in a drive? I know the answer is "probably not" but that would be an interesting bit of computer janitoring to do every couple of years. The answer is definitely not. I went down a helium drive based rabbit hole yesterday and there's no accessible valve/hole/doodah for filling (or leaking) The whole drive top-case is laser welded shut so the only way in/out for the gases* is by quantum shenanigans. Or a bad weld I guess. One video was from a company that makes tools for hdd recovery companies. Proper gnarly cracking methods to get into the things, they are very thoroughly shut. *Seems it's not just helium, but some proprietary mix. Not totally surprising I guess. I'm on a different machine or I'd link the stuff sorry -ninja- I remembered the mad music selections so made the effort just to share that alone. HDD stuff is just a bonus.. Here's the first one when they were developing the tools, so just decided to cnc the fucker open in the meantime. The video has perhaps the most bombastic and over the top music I've ever heard. Hilariously inappropriate, worth a listen in and of itself... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMtvYnI1gQ And the tools they sell. Prices on stuff like this is always "contact us" level of expensive. Music selection is back to the usual generic product sounds. I've hard this one on so, so many videos... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeIusS38mU0 And here's a random guy again, cnc-ing one open. He finds the part used for the initial filling at the timestamp. Sound selection is jazzy hip-hop vibes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92LK-OsNJk0&t=261s YerDa Zabam fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 09:36
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Twerk from Home posted:Do helium drives not last as long? We're all buying helium drives now, right? Isn't everything over 16TB helium right now? However, there’s a difference between a drive’s lifetime and how long they’re used in production workloads that aren’t backblaze (because despite their statistics being interesting, they match neither a prosumer or typical production workload) - which is all I was getting at. SMR in the consumer space has such a stink because of both Seagate and WDC submarining it into existing product lines, where it makes no sense - they could've introduced it as a separate product line intended for WORM storage, and they could've introduced a host-managed version, and both would've made them money, but they decided to go the villain route instead. In terms of WORM storage, and when using the host-managed variant that hyperscalers can buy and consumers can’t, it’s still very popular. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 10:12
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Ah, your mention of host managed smr jogged my memory about a thing about smr, in the enterprise setting, from wd. https://documents.westerndigital.co...-technology.pdf
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Nov 24, 2023 11:43
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