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Partij vor der Blackface Blackface Alliance Farmer's Party Nazionalsocialist Nederlanders Arbeitspartij Any others to look out for?
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Nov 20, 2023 18:25
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Party of Copy-Pasting Right Wing Talking Points From Other Countries
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Nov 20, 2023 18:31
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They probably get in a feedback loop with the Tories here copy pasting right-wing talking points from other countries too.
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Nov 20, 2023 18:33
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Glah posted:Unfortunately I'm working under timed contract with only couple of months left, so I'm stuck with them until I get an extension or a permanent position. Otherwise I risk losing access to union dole. how is this stuff organised in finland, have you got an LO equivalent?
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Nov 20, 2023 21:39
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V. Illych L. posted:how is this stuff organised in finland, have you got an LO equivalent? Well something like 60-70% of Finnish wage workers are unionized and their unions belong under three roof organizations: SAK is the largest of them and includes all blue collar unions. Traditionally close ties to Social Democratic Party. It includes the transport union AKT that has the power over Finnish exports and can really hit the bottom line, and most importantly they've traditionally been delightfully willing to actually use that power on all levels (for example I have a friend who is a steveadore, and one time when managment was floating around the idea of removing sauna bonus from saturday shift the local chapter just went on instant (illegal) strike). They've got the organization, ability and willingness, good lads and lasses all of them. Good way to spot an rear end in a top hat is if they randomly start crying about evil AKT standing in the way of captains of industry. Akava is the organization for higher educated white collar worker's unions. My useless union is one of those. STTK is the organization of ordinary white collar worker's unions. Like other Nordic countries, we have general agreements between unions and employer organizations about labour markets in different professions. So no minimum wage, and talks of minimum wage are actually seen as a way of eroding union power. But getting rid of those general agreements and bringing about "local negotiations" has been the next big thing pushed by employer side and the bourgeoise parties after they succesfully destroyed the tripartite agreements 15 years ago. If the cuts to welfare functions and imposing limits to right to strike don't bring about increasing waves of strikes, then pushing that agenda will. Dunno if the government has the balls to attempt it during this mandate yet...
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Nov 21, 2023 06:42
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Can someone who is versed in the extremely granular world of Dutch party politics let me know how likely it is geert wilders is to be pm? It looks his party is going to be by far the largest.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:23
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I think the other right wing parties wouldn't want him to be PM but whether they can be bribed to accept it depends on what other coalition options there are.
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Nov 22, 2023 21:54
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Can someone who is versed in the extremely granular world of Dutch party politics let me know how likely it is geert wilders is to be pm? It looks his party is going to be by far the largest. Nothing is too lovely for this clogged drain of a country. May the seas swallow the swamp.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:46
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There are none. The other major parties on the right are a center right party and another far right party. Despite everything they've said both of them would likely sell their firstborns to be in the coalition. The Dutch system is weird because it's sort of built in a way that if you win you almost always have to work with a party that's on the other side of the political spectrum since you can't get a majority otherwise. This is the first time in forever that of the 4 major parties 3 are right wing. We're getting the most right wing government in the history of the country most likely.
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Nov 22, 2023 22:50
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Well look on the bright side, Britain has its most right-wing government in the history of our country and look how well we're doing! 
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Nov 22, 2023 22:52
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Wasn't it the case that inside the EU there used to be two strong neoliberal countries, UK and Netherlands, who were successfully hindering any and all initiatives that would make sense such as cracking down on tax havens? The UK successfully banished itself already, and maybe after NLexit happens, the EU might in theory become better... well ok fine, yes, but let me dream
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Nov 22, 2023 23:01
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Lol the EU is the only reason nl isn't loving bankrupt so nlexit is going to be hilarious.
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Nov 22, 2023 23:06
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Fortunately, a lot of euroscepticism has disappeared due to the incredible shitshow that is Brexit
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Nov 22, 2023 23:22
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My local business papers are throwing shade on the latest revision of the PPWD, stating that the cardboard firms will go out of business if they have to reuse rather than recycle. Any expert on the topic? The articles are so nebulous I cannot make head or tails about this latest change.
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Nov 22, 2023 23:44
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Regarding the EU and getting less poo poo, Brexit helped, yes, but Poland and Hungary have been two major blockages to progress. Poland of course has recently shown a willingness to de-shite, but Hungary is still the turd in the ointment.
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Nov 23, 2023 00:58
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Tesseraction posted:Poland of course has recently shown a willingness to de-shite How so? I haven't really paid attention.
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Nov 23, 2023 09:26
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Elman posted:How so? I haven't really paid attention. Their recent parliamentary election saw the piss party lose a bunch of seats. quote:Following the 2019 Polish parliamentary election the right-wing Law and Justice (PiS) party held its Sejm majority with Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki forming a second government. The opposition, including the Civic Platform and others, secured a Senate majority. In the lead-up to the 2023 elections, Donald Tusk led the Civic Coalition political alliance in opposition to the PiS.
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Nov 23, 2023 09:30
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Tesseraction posted:Regarding the EU and getting less poo poo, Brexit helped, yes, but Poland and Hungary have been two major blockages to progress. Poland of course has recently shown a willingness to de-shite, but Hungary is still the turd in the ointment. Don't forget Germany. They are the biggest most important member and their EU policy as well as their domestic policy have been.. bad for europe in the long run. They were the prime mover of austerity politics, arguably they (german banks) were the prime mover of the politics and actions that lead up to it as well. They have benefited the most EU economic policy (at the expense of others) and their very large trade surplus has been a problem for years, hurting many eurozone countries and hindering growth. You can also add their energy policy and foreign policy (russia) to the heap of bad choices that are also negatively affecting the entire EU. Gonna link to an earlier post of mine, a local paper editorial I google translated. I thought hit the nail on the head. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3767159&pagenumber=921&perpage=40#post527927953 Germany is the EU's largest strength, and it's largest weakness.
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Nov 23, 2023 09:49
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the EU is very bad in very many ways. re: the tax haven thing in particular i very much doubt that removing the netherlands would make such policy more feasible - i imagine that luxembourg or someone would suddenly find hitherto unknown reserves of intransigent energy and block any progress on the matter.
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Nov 23, 2023 10:00
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Funny how fascism seemed dead in the water before social media and now seemingly every election everywhere has an open faacist as a leading contender to form a government or outright winning elections despite failing miserably many times in the past before the onslaught of fascist propaganda and fear mongering on most major social media platforms became so common place and influential
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Nov 23, 2023 13:50
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Kale posted:Funny how fascism seemed dead in the water before social media and now seemingly every election everywhere has an open faacist as a leading contender to form a government or outright winning elections despite failing miserably many times in the past before the onslaught of fascist propaganda and fear mongering on most major social media platforms became so common place and influential To be fair I think fascism was bound to see a rise since neoliberalism is completely failing to tackle the issues it faces and there's no good socialist alternatives being offered. People know the system is broken, and it's a lot easier to come up with a bullshit racist explanation for why that is than it is to offer real solutions that go against the prevailing cultural narrative. This still would've happened to some degree without social media and billionaires boosting the far right. Though that certainly hasn't helped.
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Nov 23, 2023 13:57
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Yeees, on social media only.
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Nov 23, 2023 13:57
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Kale posted:Funny how fascism seemed dead in the water before social media and now seemingly every election everywhere has an open faacist as a leading contender to form a government or outright winning elections despite failing miserably many times in the past before the onslaught of fascist propaganda and fear mongering on most major social media platforms became so common place and influential That's much too easy. If you read something like Nixonland - Perlstein's amazing Nixon biography - you might fidn there's really not quite as much fundamental differences between your average American arch-rightwing conservative in the 60's and now. Even someone like Nixon, whose reputation has at least partly been rehabilated because he founded the EPA and he's not Donald Trump, operated from the same assumptions as Trump. Maybe Trump's rhetoric is more overtly authoritarian, but the contemporary populist/right-wing resurgence should not be seen as an abberation caused by external disruptions, but something that's always been possible
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Nov 23, 2023 14:02
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I mean, Nixon specifically outlawed weed in the US to specifically target black people and leftists. The only difference between his authoritarianism and modern stuff is we can more easily see in real time how dumb as loving rocks fascists are. You had to go and see Mussolini or Hitler in person to see they were awkward bumbling creeps 99% of the time, or be Henry Kissinger to realise Nixon was drunk all the time and talking to the white house paintings about what to do. Now Trump posts online that he was "indicated" and that his victory in 2020 was "stollen" from him.
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Nov 23, 2023 14:24
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Tesseraction posted:I mean, Nixon specifically outlawed weed in the US to specifically target black people and leftists. The only difference between his authoritarianism and modern stuff is we can more easily see in real time how dumb as loving rocks fascists are. Mmmm Christmas Stollen
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Nov 23, 2023 14:32
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Fascism is making a comeback because economic liberalism is failing the working class and fascism is what capital turns to as a bulwark against socialism, as the final defender of property rights. Social media has nothing to do with it, aside from being just another vector through which they can deliver their propaganda. You'd see the same things if we relied exclusively on traditional media.
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Nov 23, 2023 15:22
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YF-23 posted:Fascism is making a comeback because economic liberalism is failing the working class and fascism is what capital turns to as a bulwark against socialism, as the final defender of property rights. Social media has nothing to do with it, aside from being just another vector through which they can deliver their propaganda. You'd see the same things if we relied exclusively on traditional media. See: the UK where social media loving hates the tories but the BBC kept running "Jeremy Corbyn: The Second Hitler??" daily for years until he resigned in defeat.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:43
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The amount of comments on Dutch newssites going yes finally we the right can fix the problems the left gave us make me want to shake someone and scream. "We've head right-wing governments for 2 decades before this you fool." Also it looks like VVD is just going to get a seat at the table again. After 12 years of them loving it up they get another go.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:49
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any Dutch posters have coalition predictions? the VVD seems like a natural coalition partner but if I were them I'd be afraid of long-term electoral consequences of being fully subsumed into the PVV. Omtzigt feels like the most weathervane dude who will go along with anything. is PVV-VVD-NSC-BBB the most likely coalition? Why did Baudet collapse so much the last couple years just to lose it all the Wilders? SP/PvdD collapse seems significant since it about matches the increased result from GL/PvdA i say swears online fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 23, 2023 |
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Nov 23, 2023 16:54
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YF-23 posted:Fascism is making a comeback because economic liberalism is failing the working class and fascism is what capital turns to as a bulwark against socialism, as the final defender of property rights. Social media has nothing to do with it, aside from being just another vector through which they can deliver their propaganda. You'd see the same things if we relied exclusively on traditional media. Tesseraction posted:See: the UK where social media loving hates the tories but the BBC kept running "Jeremy Corbyn: The Second Hitler??" daily for years until he resigned in defeat.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:55
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Ah yes the Guardian *spits* Every time I see them lament the state of things I just think that they, at least, deserve to be unhappy for facilitating that.
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Nov 23, 2023 16:57
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at least steve bell's reaction to all this will have appropriate respect for the situa-oh
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Nov 23, 2023 16:59
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i say swears online posted:Why did Baudet collapse so much the last couple years just to lose it all the Wilders? SP/PvdD collapse seems significant since it about matches the increased result from GL/PvdA I'm Flemish, not Dutch, so don't have the full picture, but Thierry Baudet went full-on nutjob far right conspiracy theorist and his party suffered internal struggles. Geert Wilders is a more respectable far right conspiracy theorist.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:53
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Also Thierry got smacked on the head with an umbrella, so he's no longer ALPHA.
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Nov 23, 2023 19:58
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YF-23 posted:Fascism is making a comeback because economic liberalism is failing the working class and fascism is what capital turns to as a bulwark against socialism, as the final defender of property rights. Social media has nothing to do with it, aside from being just another vector through which they can deliver their propaganda. You'd see the same things if we relied exclusively on traditional media. To add to that: fascism is consistently more popular among the wealthy than it is among the working class. Fascism itself benefits from the popular media image that it's all people like truckers, farmers and coalminers so that it looks at least somewhat legitimate. E.g. in 2016 wealth was the biggest predictive factor whether someone ended up voting Trump.
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Nov 23, 2023 21:02
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if i had to guess, VVD have white-collar managerial class and PVV have small business owners as core constituencies
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Nov 23, 2023 21:14
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i say swears online posted:any Dutch posters have coalition predictions? the VVD seems like a natural coalition partner but if I were them I'd be afraid of long-term electoral consequences of being fully subsumed into the PVV. Omtzigt feels like the most weathervane dude who will go along with anything. is PVV-VVD-NSC-BBB the most likely coalition? PVV-VVD-NSC would have a majority in the house of representatives if i'm not mistaken, so it would probably be a likely suspect. They could either rely on BBB support in the Senate, or add them to a coalition, but that might lead to issues in dividing the minister posts.
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Nov 23, 2023 21:16
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Pope Hilarius II posted:To add to that: fascism is consistently more popular among the wealthy than it is among the working class. Fascism itself benefits from the popular media image that it's all people like truckers, farmers and coalminers so that it looks at least somewhat legitimate. E.g. in 2016 wealth was the biggest predictive factor whether someone ended up voting Trump. Thats not remotely accurate.  High income Americans voted almost evenly for the two candidates. Race, age, education and a whole host of other demographic factors were far more predictive. The shift to the right in Europe by the working class is down mostly to two things: - The economic neo-liberalism / globalisation of the last 40 years that has gutted welfare states and failed the working class, - And the traditional center-left / Social Democrat parties moving from economic issues to social issues, abandoning the concerns of working class voters along the way The working class across the contintent have been neglected, abused, abandoned, and ignored more and more over the last 40 years. Its no surprise they're voting for extreme parties everywhere as a result.
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Nov 23, 2023 22:15
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PVDA-GL, VVD, NSC and D66 coalition would emerge if they decide that Wilders is too much but then they all want to cut immigration and international students and Wilders would hound them for not going far enough when random crimes happen and that would not go down well for the coalition and PVDA-GL will be destroyed
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Nov 24, 2023 00:03
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Blut posted:
That is my feeling as well. Major leftish dutch parties turned almost entirely towards identity politics and stopped caring about lifting everyone up out of poverty, or at least presenting themselves as such. So the entire debate turned into "they took our jerbs". The Animal Party (pvdd) advocating for "eliminating" industrial farming and talking about taxing car users more doesn't help either. That just means everything will get more expensive mostly. Still voted for them tho, because gently caress all this other neolib poo poo
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Nov 24, 2023 00:42
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