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83 has 3 hall of famers which at this point seems unlikely for 2020 so that’s probably gonna keep its crown but still pretty remarkable.
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Nov 25, 2023 23:02
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TheBizzness posted:Is there another draft class that within 4 years had produced 1/3 of the best 12 QBs in the league as it looks like the 2020 class has? I had completely forgotten that Jalen was taken in the second (and that Jordan Love went before him lol)
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Nov 25, 2023 23:28
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Hell even Jordan Love is good enough to not be considered an out and out bust I think, that’s also pretty rare from a draft I’d imagine.
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Nov 26, 2023 00:00
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I'd give it another season before judging, if he leaves after next season in FA it's arguable since you only got two years from him on (what would be equivalent to) his rookie deal. but if he sticks around for a few years, competent starting QB play from the back end of the first draft is by no means a bust
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Nov 26, 2023 00:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB61k4VS8rQ
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Nov 26, 2023 01:19
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indigi posted:it's strange that Purdy is still getting such strong MVP hype when we have a clear case study that the offense is trash without Williams and Deebo and a healthy(ish) CMC. it'd be one thing if the offense was ok but unspectacular on that losing skid, but they played like doodoo butter. he's obviously one of the main contributors, but based on how terrible the offense looked idk how you can argue he's the most valuable player on that unit, let alone in the league I agree with CMC 4 MVP but I don't know why people keep talking like the Niners offense turned into the Jets during the losing streak. The Browns game was ugly (in part because the conditions were awful but still, definitely the worst offensive game of the season) but they were perfectly fine against the Bengals and Vikings. They averaged like 7 yards per play across those two games, they just shot themselves in each foot and then the head with turnovers. And of course turnovers are extremely bad but I think a rash of mistakes is a lot different than actually just being trash and unable to move the ball. Trent and Deebo own but I don't think they change that or the defense's inability to get off the field in those games, and that's what killed the Niners October. e: it is funny how MVP talk works though, I thought Purdy was a lot worse against Seattle than he was against, say, the Bengals but they won against Seattle so he's back in the MVP chase whereas the Bengals exposed him and it's Darnold time Dutchy fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 02:12
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Dutchy posted:I agree with CMC 4 MVP but I don't know why people keep talking like the Niners offense turned into the Jets during the losing streak. The Browns game was ugly (in part because the conditions were awful but still, definitely the worst offensive game of the season) but they were perfectly fine against the Bengals and Vikings. They averaged like 7 yards per play across those two games, they just shot themselves in each foot and then the head with turnovers. And of course turnovers are extremely bad but I think a rash of mistakes is a lot different than actually just being trash and unable to move the ball. Trent and Deebo own but I don't think they change that or the defense's inability to get off the field in those games, and that's what killed the Niners October. Think of those three games like this: Purdy had the game winning drive vs the browns. Kicker missed. Kirk Cousins and Joe Burrow had like career games vs the niners defense. Hard to come back from that. Dunno if he's MVP worthy though. He needs a few more completely dominant wins this year to get into that conversation.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:35
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Mustached Demon posted:Purdy had the game winning drive vs the browns. Kicker missed. He also threw for only 125 yards and had only a 44% completion rate. He looked awful that game.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:58
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wilderthanmild posted:He also threw for only 125 yards and had only a 44% completion rate. He looked awful that game. It's hard to throw the ball when the opposing d-line is 3 steps into the backfield instantly after every snap. As bad as Purdy might have been, the o-line was much worse.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:01
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wilderthanmild posted:He also threw for only 125 yards and had only a 44% completion rate. He looked awful that game. Moody makes it and it's "Purdy pulled it together when it mattered."
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Nov 26, 2023 03:16
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Mustached Demon posted:Moody makes it and it's "Purdy pulled it together when it mattered." I mean yes but narrative and actually being good aren’t exactly the same thing
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Nov 26, 2023 03:43
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I mean, really, it's a case of Brock Purdy dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:52
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean yes but narrative and actually being good aren’t exactly the same thing For sure but in fairness it's a narrative argument for what's already a narrative discussion. His almost comeback to steal a poo poo game only comes up because he's frequently criticized for being unable to comeback or steal you a poo poo game. Definitely a poo poo game, though. Anyway, if the MVP has to go to a QB and not CMC, I think there's like a half dozen guys at least who could claim it with a strong December and I'm not even sure who my favorite would be ATM. Brock's in that mix but actually winning would surprise me.
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Nov 26, 2023 04:41
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I still think Myles Garrett has a shot at MVP. It's an outside shot, but if the Browns make the playoffs basically carried by that defense, QBs continue to look human AND he breaks the sack record, which he is on pace to tie or beat, he's a solid candidate. In all likelihood it will end up not only going to an offensive player but to a QB even with how human even the best QBs have looked this year, but Garrett is having a monster year and getting just enough "Wow this guy is a MONSTER" coverage that I think there is a slim but real chance he gets the first defensive MVP since LT.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:09
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Dutchy posted:For sure but in fairness it's a narrative argument for what's already a narrative discussion. His almost comeback to steal a poo poo game only comes up because he's frequently criticized for being unable to comeback or steal you a poo poo game. Definitely a poo poo game, though. I mean I could see it if it was late but I don’t think a week 6 comeback is going to impact that stuff all that much. All they will see is the stats
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Nov 26, 2023 05:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I could see it if it was late but I don’t think a week 6 comeback is going to impact that stuff all that much. All they will see is the stats Yeah I agree, I'm just explaining why I think it even comes up, it was such a heavy point of talking head debate when every game seemed like a referendum on if he could even play.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:27
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There's gonna be some weird poo poo for MVP this year like Russell Wilson winning it after taking the AFC West. If they win tomorrow the Broncos could legitimately win out. vCLE @HOU @LAC @DET vNE vLAC @LV
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Nov 26, 2023 05:29
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Bellmaker posted:There's gonna be some weird poo poo for MVP this year like Russell Wilson winning it after taking the AFC West. If they win tomorrow the Broncos could legitimately win out. Texans and Lions are pretty good, also, this Broncos team is still rear end, they'll find a way to lose some gimmes.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:31
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Bellmaker posted:There's gonna be some weird poo poo for MVP this year like Russell Wilson winning it after taking the AFC West. If they win tomorrow the Broncos could legitimately win out. Lmao they’re absolutely not winning out cmon dude. Even 2 more wins though is a great season all things considered
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Nov 26, 2023 05:32
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The most likely and boring outcome is probably that one of the top QBs goes on a hot streak through December and locks up the award. Agree it would be cool to see it go to another position for once and that this year is uniquely suited to it happening. What with all the injuries, and every favorite has dropped at least one game to a trashcan team (can you really give the MVP to a guy who lost to the Jets, Patriots, or Broncos?  ).For what it's worth Hurts is the current betting favorite although of course that's not the same as most likely to win Also yeah as Charles said the voters seem to have short memories. Balling out in week 17 to clinch the #1 seed and cap off an MVP case is going to carry more weight than the exact same performance in week 6 even if it shouldn't
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Nov 26, 2023 05:35
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Bellmaker posted:There's gonna be some weird poo poo for MVP this year like Russell Wilson winning it after taking the AFC West. If they win tomorrow the Broncos could legitimately win out. Looking at a 5-5 team with a schedule that includes a 8-3 team, 7-3 team, and 6-4 team and thinking they could win out seems a little optimistic. If they win those three games, which I think is a long shot, they have a decent shot since the rest of the games are not good teams. Even then though, it requires a level of consistently good play we just haven't seen from the Broncos.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:57
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Yeah there are a handful of QBs that are in the running and the one that has the best December probably takes it. Or CMC if they feel spicy.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:59
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Broncos feel it's the defense holds the other offense until RWBS is channeled.
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Nov 26, 2023 06:19
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Wrong thread
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Nov 26, 2023 06:21
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doesn't tyreek hill have the best case for mvp at this point? he's been unstoppable and will likely blow by the yd record.
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Nov 26, 2023 06:59
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not that Tyreek hasn't been good but a lot of that was earlier in the season and you could probably argue aj brown is just as good
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Nov 26, 2023 07:26
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Parallax posted:not that Tyreek hasn't been good but a lot of that was earlier in the season and you could probably argue aj brown is just as good Reeks got about 20 more receptions, 300 more yds, and 4 more TDs so it’s not a great argument right now. Give it a few more weeks though
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Nov 26, 2023 07:41
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brown hasn't played this week, but i didn't realize he only had 6 yards against the chiefs last week. earlier it did seem like both could cross the 2k yard mark. also frankly if hill doesn't break calvin johnson's record by the end of week 16 then the whole thing is bullshit and he doesn't deserve the mvp anyway
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Nov 26, 2023 08:03
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It's a different league with 17 games and all the previous records should be retired. Hill absolutely isn't breaking anything. Neither is Garrett.
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Nov 26, 2023 08:07
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And those records are only worth so much compared to the 14 game records, if you want to keep going down that path. Same thing when Superbowl champs after the wild card was created. Or after the multiple realignments.
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Nov 26, 2023 08:14
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Hills getting the record sorry losers (love u guys)
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Nov 26, 2023 09:17
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Brown seems thoroughly cockblocked by his own teammate anyway. Like maybe if he was posting that stat line with Kenny Pickett throwing to him he'd be in the mix. But on a good team with a great QB he's just helping make Hurts' case rather than building his own. Hurts is only a couple rushing TDs behind CMC which is loving insane. If it goes to an Eagle it's obviously him. Tyreek is a bit more live but I still think it'll go to QB of a top conference seed unless they ALL melt down Taking a look the Chiefs finish the year with a very soft schedule, might be a good time to put a few bucks on Mahomes MVP
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Nov 26, 2023 09:31
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Docjowles posted:Taking a look the Chiefs finish the year with a very soft schedule, might be a good time to put a few bucks on Mahomes MVP not if his receivers have anything to say about it
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Nov 26, 2023 10:01
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Docjowles posted:Brown seems thoroughly cockblocked by his own teammate anyway. Like maybe if he was posting that stat line with Kenny Pickett throwing to him he'd be in the mix. But on a good team with a great QB he's just helping make Hurts' case rather than building his own. Hurts is only a couple rushing TDs behind CMC which is loving insane. If it goes to an Eagle it's obviously him. He hasn’t been playing crazy good defenses up till now Like it’s basically only the jets when they still had hope
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Nov 26, 2023 12:41
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wilderthanmild posted:Looking at a 5-5 team with a schedule that includes a 8-3 team, 7-3 team, and 6-4 team and thinking they could win out seems a little optimistic. If they win those three games, which I think is a long shot, they have a decent shot since the rest of the games are not good teams. Even then though, it requires a level of consistently good play we just haven't seen from the Broncos. All I'm saying is that they have improved from their 70 point drubbing by the Dolphins and I don't think folks realize that. And I'm not sure anyone can predict what can happen in Detroit/Denver after that meltdown Thursday, Lions sucked an incredible amount of rear end.
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Nov 26, 2023 13:50
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Tyreek isn’t winning MVP. The league doesn’t want an even bigger spot light on what a dick he is. It will be whichever qb throws together the best December or possibly Garrett. Garrett absolutely has a better case but it probably won’t matter.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:04
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Josh Allen at +3500 seems like a good long shot bet with the ability to tear off a dominating run to win out.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:30
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Going against the grain of the thread and betting on Dak to take home regular season MVP
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Nov 26, 2023 15:33
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No Butt Stuff posted:Tyreek isn’t winning MVP. The league doesn’t want an even bigger spot light on what a dick he is. They're doing little features about his personal life during the game so I'm pretty sure the league is fine with elevating Hill as a star.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:50
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If Tyreek and Tua both stay healthy they are going to try and force 2000 yards come hell or high water. Honestly seems like that’s been the offenses biggest goal since like week 6, at times. No QB deserves it this point this season, it should be Garret, Tyreek, or CMC.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:50
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