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pantslesswithwolves posted:It's not exactly a unique experience in the history of warfare for a small, attacking force that has the initiative (like Hamas arguably did on October 7) to rout a larger force, which seems to be exactly what happened here. Also the madman factor where if someone turns the dial from self-preservation all the way over to aggression they can do a lot of damage before they get taken down. If you have 12 guys against 2 then you've already won the fight, there's absolutely no reason for you to accept any risk at all, particularly not from someone who will very happily trade 1 for 1 with you.
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Nov 23, 2023 21:37
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You need 3 things to win a gunfight: Speed, Surprise, and Violence of Action. If you don't have all 3, doubling up on the other 2 will most often still win. In close combat, the one you need to always hold if aggression- once you lose momentum, you've lost the fight. The Ununiformed combatants came with all 3; most Israeli Soldiers have no experience in combat. Kicking in doors and abusing the unarmed isn't the same as a dude willing to make you earn a medal. Being shot at is, as they say in the AF, a significant emotional event. If you've never faced your own mortality, your Lizard brain very well might override all your training. I personally watch any video of that kinda thing, because I'm mentally ill and want to learn everything I possibly can, because losing a gunfight and walking away leaves a indelible mark.
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Nov 23, 2023 21:51
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FrozenVent posted:What does this video bring to the discussion? It's funny?
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Nov 23, 2023 22:26
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:I don't see anything worth discussing in this video. What am I missing, in your opinion? How do Hamas fighters sit down with balls that big?
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Nov 23, 2023 23:17
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Alchenar posted:Also the madman factor where if someone turns the dial from self-preservation all the way over to aggression they can do a lot of damage before they get taken down. If you have 12 guys against 2 then you've already won the fight, there's absolutely no reason for you to accept any risk at all, particularly not from someone who will very happily trade 1 for 1 with you. This isn't really true at all imo, you're never going to win a fight if you aren't willing to even engage, no matter what numerical advantage you have. It's also pretty clearly not what's happening in that video anyway.
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Nov 23, 2023 23:20
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BUUNNI posted:How do Hamas fighters sit down with balls that big? Dunno if it counts when you have a literal death wish. Like the body cam footage from the guy who bravely charged the main gate of an Israeli base and promptly got shot, but not before shrieking in terror when he realized he was dead.
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Nov 23, 2023 23:52
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psydude posted:promptly got shot, but not before shrieking in terror when he realized he was dead. I don’t think dead people can realize they’re dead and then shriek at the realization lol
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Nov 24, 2023 02:02
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psydude posted:Dunno if it counts when you have a literal death wish. This is a stupid loving thing to say dude
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Nov 24, 2023 02:25
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:This is a stupid loving thing to say dude I presume he was referring to this: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp quote:The Slogan of the Islamic Resistance Movement:
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Nov 24, 2023 02:50
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McNally posted:Their opinion. Understood sorry 👍
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Nov 24, 2023 03:02
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BUUNNI posted:I don’t think dead people can realize they’re dead and then shriek at the realization lol In the one "this guy dies at the end" bodycam video I was able to bring myself to watch, the guy left this mortal coil with a scream/grunt that was clearly "OH gently caress THEY KILLED ME", no translation required. The intent of the anguished yelp is clear, and then they just don't move anymore. Probably not the same video, but once you've seen it, you know what it means, and I guess it's not really funny after that.
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Nov 24, 2023 04:03
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:This is a stupid loving thing to say dude Hamas leadership anticipated it would be a largely one-way trip. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-hamas-and-israel-were-inches-deal-hostages quote:A second source confirmed this. He said Hamas sent in 1,500 fighters, expecting that most would be killed. That's from a pro-Palestine Qatari newspaper. And interviews with Hamas / PIJ fighters since then have contained similarly fatalistic thinking. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/10/funerals-for-west-bank-dead-jenin-israel-hamas-war quote:He is a martyr. I am happy for him. This is my wish too. Our wish is to be martyred. psydude fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 08:48
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Of course anybody willing to fight in this is fatalistic. All their life has been punctuated with entire families being murdered to kill one person on a list who may or may not even be there. Just look at the aerial photography of leveled neighborhoods. Israel has raised them to be fatalistic. There's a reason Norman Finkelstein and others compare this to the Warsaw ghetto uprising.
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Nov 24, 2023 09:28
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Not a lot of places in the world where you can be a 20 year old who has experienced 4 wars.
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Nov 24, 2023 09:43
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Mods change my name to Hamas.com https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1726937954080170289?t=wW3CkVSeKiCfs_H2Lh1IGg&s=19
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Nov 24, 2023 10:13
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algebra testes posted:https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1726937954080170289?t=wW3CkVSeKiCfs_H2Lh1IGg&s=19 Dang I did not expect EkuNNN to get a new job like that. This is a joke that’s a bit hard to explain if you didn’t read SAD last month.
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Nov 24, 2023 10:38
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psydude posted:Hamas leadership anticipated it would be a largely one-way trip. It's the same poo poo as "dyin for are country" or the flag, or the king or jesus or whatever. Everyone says that poo poo. Saying that means they can't actually be brave just sounds like classic gwot era islamophobia/racism.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:09
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BUUNNI posted:I don’t think dead people can realize they’re dead and then shriek at the realization lol Sometimes people can tell real quick that they're dying and bleeding out after being shot. I've seen enough videos to have seen people saying "I'm dead, I'm dead, I'm dead" or "I'm dying." And then they die. But you're right, most people who don't immediately have their off switch smacked don't realize they're dying.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:37
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:It's the same poo poo as "dyin for are country" or the flag, or the king or jesus or whatever. Everyone says that poo poo. Perhaps you're right and it is brave, but it's also stupid. Can we at least agree that enthusiastically "dying for the cause" or your preferred symbol/government/diety etc. really only benefits those at the top? I'd say that's been a common thread throughout most wars for the past 60 years, including the two that many of us are personally acquainted with. Bored As gently caress posted:Sometimes people can tell real quick that they're dying and bleeding out after being shot. I've seen enough videos to have seen people saying "I'm dead, I'm dead, I'm dead" or "I'm dying." And then they die. In the one I saw, the guy gets hit once and tries to run, falls down, and then shrieks before he's shot several more times. I've stopped listening to videos with the sound on since then. psydude fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 11:41
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Yeah I sometimes have a hard time getting that poo poo outa my head. Some things you just can't unsee / unhear.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:49
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the whole discussion reminds me of that line from Patton:quote:No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country. which, if dug into, appears to be a variant of a common saying from multiple 20th century western militaries: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/04/24/war/
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Nov 24, 2023 15:05
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pmchem posted:the whole discussion reminds me of that line from Patton: The sad thing is that Patton died before he could witness the US losing multiple wars across multiple continents against opponents that suffered many more casualties than the US did.
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Nov 24, 2023 15:51
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Patton was a piece of poo poo who wasn't that good of a General, but was good at politicking and building a cult of personality.
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Nov 24, 2023 16:38
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bulletsponge13 posted:Patton was a piece of poo poo who wasn't that good of a General, but was good at politicking and building a cult of personality. My WW2 vet grandfather often said " We called him old blood and guts. Our blood and his guts."
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Nov 24, 2023 18:09
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Farking Bastage posted:My WW2 vet grandfather often said " We called him old blood and guts. Our blood and his guts." isn't that another quote from the movie?
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Nov 24, 2023 18:14
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^^ I honestly don't know if it is.
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Nov 24, 2023 18:37
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algebra testes posted:Mods change my name to Hamas.com I'm sorry, they're talking about the #massacre where an IDF gunship killed a bunch of Israelis? What am I missing here
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Nov 26, 2023 02:59
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So seeing media reporting that the Houthis have grabbed (Or are actively trying to grab, reporting isn't clear) a tanker off Yemen, the MV Central Park, 2015 built, 20k DWT, Liberian flag, British company. The owner of the company that owns the tanker is an Israeli citizen living in Monaco. Dude's worth about 20 billions according to Bloomberg, and he's assuredly got more boats. And, again, insurance. Boat's last port was Safi, Morocco, and she was transiting southbound through the Red Sea squawking "For order" as a destination so it looks like not only was she empty, she wasn't even on charter. There's a crew onboard - 12-20 people - but I don't know what nationality or if they're ok, because see above RE people giving a gently caress about crews.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:45
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So is the ceasefire and hostage swap Biden's work? That's pretty impressive if he managed to pull it off.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:01
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According to the reporting the Qatari govt played an important role in the agreement to get hostages released. I'm not discounting US involvement but I doubt they were the only one to attribute this to. Edit: actually it seems like the deal was brokered by Qatar, Egypt and the US https://www.lemonde.fr/en/internati..._6278550_4.html Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 19:35
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Come on that is clearly going to be driven by the US.
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Nov 26, 2023 20:24
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I'm guessing Qatar doing the heavy lifting, with the US telling Israel to STFU and take the deal and Egypt providing the assurances on the humanitarian aid front.
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Nov 26, 2023 21:05
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Qatar pays a big bill every month to keep the people of Gaza alive and openly funds Hamas, not to mention it's public knowledge that they house Hamas leadership. Egypt has the border through which the aid goods and the weapons for Hamas flow. They have leverage The US on the other hand has no leverage over Hamas aside from actively joining in the genocide.
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Nov 26, 2023 21:37
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Here is reporting on the deal and how it came to be. Qatar has a very interesting kind of city-state position where they hosted the Taliban leadership, host some Hamas leadership, also host the USCENTCOM forward headquarters and one of the larger US airbases in the region. https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-israel-hamas-war-hostage-qatar-0126c6443a9b3b32fe97032b81eaa515
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Nov 26, 2023 21:43
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Dance Officer posted:Qatar pays a big bill every month to keep the people of Gaza alive and openly funds Hamas, not to mention it's public knowledge that they house Hamas leadership. Egypt has the border through which the aid goods and the weapons for Hamas flow. They have leverage The US has no leverage over Hamas, but it has substantial influence over Israel. And the Biden administration had been very vocally advocating for the hostage exchange and ceasefire during the negotiations. I'm sure privately they were putting it much more bluntly. psydude fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 21:52
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psydude posted:The US has no leverage over Hamas, but it has substantial influence over Israel. And the Biden administration had been very vocally advocating for the hostage exchange and ceasefire during the negotiations. I'm sure privately they were putting it much more bluntly. I'm not at all disputing that. I was pointing out that the US alone had no way to bring Hamas to the table, it needed Qatar and Egypt.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:05
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Qatar occupies an interesting diplomatic niche. Along with the relations listed above they are also fairly friendly with Iran, despite current Saudi Arabia. And we all remember what happened when the Saudis disagreed with this policy, right? MBS attempted to blockade Qatar. This was surely one of history's least effective blockades; was it Turkey that made a show of sending a bunch of cows in support? The Saudis dropped the blockade after some months and quietly improved ties since.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:20
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3.5 years of blockade. It was costly and Qatar made significant investment in self-sustainment during that time (stuff like indoor farming etc).
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Nov 26, 2023 22:38
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It was really that long eh? I guess it was just KSA closing its land border with Qatar, so no great expense required to maintain the blockade. Costs from lack of trade excepted, of course.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:15
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Count Roland posted:It was really that long eh? I guess it was just KSA closing its land border with Qatar, so no great expense required to maintain the blockade. Costs from lack of trade excepted, of course. The UAE also joined in. I know this because I flew to Kuwait via Qatar and then got asked to go to Dubai after I landed. I had to scrap my return flight through Qatar because of the blockade and wound up flying Saudia back instead. There was no booze and the episode of How I Met Your Mother that I watched was so heavily censored that the total run time was 12 minutes.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:38
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