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People liked 2 more than 1? I’ve never heard that take
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Nov 26, 2023 21:52
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Rookersh posted:Short version? oh. oh my.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:00
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CharlestheHammer posted:People liked 2 more than 1? I’ve never heard that take The combat is better, and it is a mandatory bootloader for Minerva's Den, the best BioShock story. (Written by known rear end in a top hat Steve Gaynor.)
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Nov 26, 2023 22:00
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CharlestheHammer posted:People liked 2 more than 1? I’ve never heard that take I hear more people say positive things about 2 than 1 in the long tail (like, years of retrospective takes), obviously this was less common at time of release.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:01
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Rookersh posted:Short version?  Yeah, I'm going to pass. I don't mind ideological elements in games, they're always going to be a part of anything that has a worthwile story, but that just sounds lovely. I also cannot stand it when devs retroactively ruin beloved characters. Like in the recently released Spider-Man 2, I've been hearing they did my man Peter Parker dirty and he's now some kind of constantly apologizing loser (although I guess that's not too out of character), which automatically makes me less eager to get the game when it finally does come out on PC, even though I really liked the first Spider-Man when I played it just recently.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:07
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CharlestheHammer posted:People liked 2 more than 1? I’ve never heard that take I certainly did enjoy 2 more than 1...but I only have just come around to playing it right now, whereas I played Bioshock 1 right when it came out, so I think that's a subtle tell. I think they're right in that people like 2 more than 1, but only in retrospect nowadays: for me I felt like it was very underappreciated/overlooked on launch by the public (and to be honest I can't blame them as while it is an improvement, it is generally more of the same). I think at launch, Bioshock 1 and Infinite were praised while Bioshock 2 was overlooked, and nowadays it has totally flip-flopped. Something like previously it was Infinite > 1 > 2 but now it is 2 > 1 > Infinite (or maybe 1 > 2 > Infinite)?
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Nov 26, 2023 22:18
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Rookersh posted:Ken Levine . . . actually thought Rapture was a utopia vision and failed to see how it'd be taken by people. He was blindsided that people saw the massive huge glaring flaws. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo
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Nov 26, 2023 22:19
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Bioshock 2's story was kind of a weird side story to 1. The gameplay was tighter because there were strictly controlled levels, and they revamped all the cheesy things you could do in Bioshock 1. All of the reveals and experiences in 1 were still classic gaming moments, there aren't really any of those in 2. Or Infinite, really.
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Nov 26, 2023 22:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:People liked 2 more than 1? I’ve never heard that take that's me, it felt better to play and thought 1 was pretty overhyped. i played these games way later tho Rookersh posted:Ken Levine is a huge auteur type who despises Bioshock 2. The idea that anyone else was allowed to touch his world/setting infuriated him, and the fact some people liked it more than Bioshock made it even worse. happy to do my belated part to drive a dumb rear end in a top hat nuts
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Nov 26, 2023 23:12
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ninjoatse.cx posted:All of the reveals and experiences in 1 were still classic gaming moments, there aren't really any of those in 2. Or Infinite, really. But even then, are BioShock 1’s highs “classic gaming moments” to anyone who played System Shock 2?
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Nov 26, 2023 23:21
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Bumhead posted:But even then, are BioShock 1’s highs “classic gaming moments” to anyone who played System Shock 2? Not many people played System Shock 2 so does it really matter
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Nov 26, 2023 23:22
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ken levine's a fuckin dweeb who has made the same game for the last 20 years, and it sucks can you guess what his next game is, that's right, the same poo poo
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Nov 26, 2023 23:29
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Rookersh posted:Short version? Do you remember where you heard this or have a source handy? Postmortem stuff in game development has always been super interesting to me. I tried googling, but all I can find are interviews of Ken himself talking about Inifinite and Bioshock.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:31
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CharlestheHammer posted:People liked 2 more than 1? I’ve never heard that take It was a disappointment at launch but the gameplay aged better
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Nov 26, 2023 23:34
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Velocity Raptor posted:Do you remember where you heard this or have a source handy? Postmortem stuff in game development has always been super interesting to me. I tried googling, but all I can find are interviews of Ken himself talking about Inifinite and Bioshock. I'd love to see more as well because the idea of anyone writing Rapture as a sincere libertopia brought down by The Poors sounds like a deliberately, willfully wrong reading of the game. Like how could a major designer be at all certain that's what he communicated and people just got it wrong? Every step of the plot was "this poo poo was doomed because libertarians are and attract egomaniacs and shysters."
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Nov 26, 2023 23:36
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Velocity Raptor posted:Do you remember where you heard this or have a source handy? Postmortem stuff in game development has always been super interesting to me. I tried googling, but all I can find are interviews of Ken himself talking about Inifinite and Bioshock. It's from a mix of the post Infinite DLC talk here and abroad, largely due to a lot of pissed off staff members. Not sure if you remember, but right before DLC 2 came out Irrational fired basically everyone. 2K/Ken's response was they wanted to remake the team into a more personal team, and focus on "the games". Hubbub from all those fired was that Levine blew the budget out remaking sections of Infinite/it's DLC over and over again, and threw the staff to the wolves to buy more time to make it "perfect". 2K didn't want to lose their auteur, so they memoryholed him and threw him in a box with a much smaller team so he could do significantly less damage. In that grouping of very pissed off people came talk about Ken being a libertarian shithead who tanked the budget and got them all fired chasing his perfect vision. The DLC that would finally show people what he really meant with Bioshock 1. Also people talking about how he'd just straight up go on rants about Bioshock 2 at times and refuse to return to work for days if anybody mentioned it around him. How he disappeared for a few weeks once because a senior staff member had mentioned a mechanic from Bioshock 2, and wouldn't return to work until 2K fired the guy. Just extremely childish poo poo. A lot of this got later collaborated by the Mafia 3 dev streams/dev talks/dev breakdowns, because that was a lot of ex Irrational folks, and they would talk about their prior experience and how much easier it was to work for the Mafia 3 team. I obviously don't have years old forum posts to source up right now, and have little desire to go through 10+ y/o threads to find them. So you'll have to do that digging on your own. It's been slightly collaborated by some of the talk on Judas, where apparently, he's gone even further down the bad politics brain and that game is going to have some serious chuddy poo poo. Mixed with the fact it's been in dev hell for years and he's apparently been burning through staff like mad because he's a nightmare to work with, which collaborates some of the ex Irrational peoples statements.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:52
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Soul Glo posted:ken levine's a fuckin dweeb who has made the same game for the last 20 years, and it sucks I love this kind of aesthetic and have never given a poo poo about story in any game I've played so I'm looking forward to it.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:52
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i think everyone should play the system shock remake because it's relly good
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Nov 26, 2023 23:58
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I dunno about the libertarian poo poo but Jason Schrier’s book Press Reset talks about the Bioshock development saga and Ken Levine comes across as a tremendous self centred rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:02
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I enjoyed the Luteces and the DLC ruined them, too, so it can gently caress off
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Nov 27, 2023 00:07
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How long does it take to get to freely explore the city in Spider-Man? And how difficult is it? My 5.5 year old is just getting into games and seems to like games that are big on movement and kind of likes Spider-Man so I thought it’d be a good fit if you don’t have to do hours of story and/or if it’s too restrictive
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Nov 27, 2023 00:26
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Jordan7hm posted:I dunno about the libertarian poo poo but Jason Schrier’s book Press Reset talks about the Bioshock development saga and Ken Levine comes across as a tremendous self centred rear end in a top hat. Yeah, some of the stuff about Levine is corroborated there. According to Schreier, Irrational had to smash the game together in about a year - 2K brought in a closer, much like happened to Diablo 4, just to get it across the finish line because they had no idea what they were making.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:26
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Anno posted:How long does it take to get to freely explore the city in Spider-Man? And how difficult is it? My 5.5 year old is just getting into games and seems to like games that are big on movement and kind of likes Spider-Man so I thought it’d be a good fit if you don’t have to do hours of story and/or if it’s too restrictive I would like to put in a word for Lego DC Supervillains, which has one of the most fun little open worlds I've ever messed around in. And if you use a speedster character you can just tear around and gently caress up Gotham City to your heart's content.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:33
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HopperUK posted:I would like to put in a word for Lego DC Supervillains, which has one of the most fun little open worlds I've ever messed around in. And if you use a speedster character you can just tear around and gently caress up Gotham City to your heart's content. Good to know! I have a couple of the Lego games I think but idk about that one. I’ll check.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:40
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Anno posted:How long does it take to get to freely explore the city in Spider-Man? Having just started the game it opens up pretty drat quickly less than an hour? If that. It’s also a fantastic game.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:43
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HopperUK posted:I enjoyed the Luteces and the DLC ruined them, too, so it can gently caress off Oh, that settles it for me, then. Not touching this loving DLC. The auteur stuff, trying to ruin B1, being a shithead... it's all extremely bad, but one of the good things from Infinite ruined as well? My dear Lutece twins? Yeah, screw that.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:43
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Anno posted:How long does it take to get to freely explore the city in Spider-Man? And how difficult is it? My 5.5 year old is just getting into games and seems to like games that are big on movement and kind of likes Spider-Man so I thought it’d be a good fit if you don’t have to do hours of story and/or if it’s too restrictive It doesn't take long to just be able to swing/run around New York, but they drip-feed new map markers/unlock tokens throughout the game (which actually might work in your favor, as there won't be as much stuff just sitting around waiting to be activated). It might be a bit much for a 5-year-old, especially if they stumble into a crime. IME as an uncle: Sonic Mania is pretty good and simple (most of the time; some of the later stages and bosses might be too tough for younger kids). The Scribblenauts games are good to play with kids (they tell you what to make/do, and you give a "pretty dress" to Ben Franklin). Nuclear Blaze is a side-scrolling fire-fighting game with a kids mode specifically added so that the developer's son could play the game - your firefighter is invincible with infinite water and just has to rescue kittens in mini versions of the levels. There are more helicopters and fire trucks, because kids like those things. Also, open-world driving games like NFS Heat (but not Unbound) or the Forza Horizon games were a hit for my nephews (6 and 8) - just let them drive around and figure out how the controls work. The younger one went from weaving back and forth all over the place and yelling "I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIIIIIVE!" to (mostly) staying on the roads and (usually) avoiding other cars. The older one, when he hit another car, would swing the camera around and ask the driver if they were okay (using the mic on my headset). Another chill game that's pretty good for kids is Copoka, where you play as a magpie (I think it's a magpie) flying around a city. There's no real goal other than "collect shiny things to bring back to your nest" and even that's just kind of a thing you can do if you want to. Kids playing games is cool and fun to watch. 
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Nov 27, 2023 01:07
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ErrEff posted:Yeah, some of the stuff about Levine is corroborated there. According to Schreier, Irrational had to smash the game together in about a year - 2K brought in a closer, much like happened to Diablo 4, just to get it across the finish line because they had no idea what they were making. what kills me is system shock 2 development sounds like a democratic utopia
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Nov 27, 2023 01:25
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Fifty Farts posted:It doesn't take long to just be able to swing/run around New York, but they drip-feed new map markers/unlock tokens throughout the game (which actually might work in your favor, as there won't be as much stuff just sitting around waiting to be activated). It might be a bit much for a 5-year-old, especially if they stumble into a crime. Thanks I’ll look into some of those. She’s played FH5 and liked it well enough. For Spider-Man I think it’ll probably be a bit on the hard side but kids get better so fast it’s crazy, they just have to be in to the game enough to keep at it, and it being Spider-Man I think will help with that. Plus I’ve just wanted to play it myself as some point.
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Nov 27, 2023 01:27
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Thanks for the replies. I gonna check out that book as well. It's available on Audible, so it'll give me something to listen to on my commute to work.
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Nov 27, 2023 01:56
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sebmojo posted:i think everyone should play the system shock remake because it's relly good I will when it's less than $20
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Nov 27, 2023 03:01
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is the bioshock infinite dlc the one where a black lady randomly for no reason decides to travel back in time and murder a white baby so that the white supremacist race war in the main game becomes retroactively "justified" and "both sides bad" or am i misremembering
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Nov 27, 2023 03:22
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:is the bioshock infinite dlc the one where a black lady randomly for no reason decides to travel back in time and murder a white baby so that the white supremacist race war in the main game becomes retroactively "justified" and "both sides bad" The attempted baby murder and Both Sides are Wrong conclusion are in the original game, the DLC explanation was actually trying to make the black woman more sympathetic, believe it or not, by making it so she was basically forced to do it.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:31
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No, it's worse than that you get a vision of the Luteces explaining to her that she needs to kill the boy, because it's the event that'll convince Elizabeth that murder is important. And if she doesn't realize murder is important, she won't be able to stop the events of Infinite, and start the true story of Bioshock 1. Daisy then says she can't kill a kid, because murder is wrong, and the sins of the father. So they say she can just threaten the child. Either way Elizabeth will be inspired, and Daisy will be killed by Booker/Elizabeth and set off the events of Infinite/Bioshock. They also confirm that she'll die in the process, but her revolution will succeed through Booker and Elizabeth. Elizabeth then goes on about how she really misunderstood Daisy, and she really was a good person and a true martyr. And that she'd remember her forever. In case people wanna see how bad Burial at Sea is lmao. Like four different character assassinations at the same time. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 03:34
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They sure buried that game at the sea. Talk about self-own.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:39
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levine never demonstrated a single principle of his own besides a mealymouthed claim that he was against "extremism" and spent a career coasting on the labor of his art designers and the success of system shock's gameplay style. infinite's where he tried to apply his usual schtick to a scenario that was somewhat rooted in reality and immediately tripped and fell into claiming that rebel slaves were just as bad as the slavers
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Nov 27, 2023 03:40
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I legit can't believe I was looking forward to play that damned DLC. Every spoiler post I'm hovering here is worse than the one before. This Levine fellow is just another Tommy Talarico / Elon Musk / random narcissist who just takes credit for poo poo they never actually did and then fail extremely badly when in actual charge of a project. Next thing you know he'll also claim to have created Mickey Mouse because he worked on a Disney game once.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:47
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Am still stupefied how Bioshock Infinite portrayed a slave uprising with the rebel leader immediately shooting a harmless kid in the face. Smart writer nuance from feeling the need to be both siding loving slavery.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:48
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Nobody mentioned it but the whole torture/lobotomy bit is in first person, too.  The plot extensively, exhaustively inserts Elizabeth into the events of Bioshock 1. Literally every Thing you might remember from the first game (or rather its immediate backstory) is directly or indirectly her doing. Suchong slapping the Little Sister and getting got by the Big Daddy? Even that is recontextualized as involving Elizabeth. Also she gets "collapsed" down to a single mortal woman, I guess to set the stakes, but what it actually comes down to is (spoilered for both spoilers and unpleasantness) her delivering the good ole genetic passphrase for Jack to Fontaine, who rewards her by beating her to death with a crowbar. It's okay though, she knows one day Jack will murder Fontaine so this is an acceptable sacrifice and penance for nearly murdering a little girl earlier in the story. ,
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 04:42
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disposablewords posted:I'd love to see more as well because the idea of anyone writing Rapture as a sincere libertopia brought down by The Poors sounds like a deliberately, willfully wrong reading of the game. Yeah that summary doesn’t sound correct at all.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:06
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