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Zedd posted:DS9 is a better first season than most of them but is very heavily carried by Duet. Also Man of the People, Emissary, and Babel.
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Nov 27, 2023 02:41
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I was wondering why the episode that was named for her had very little for her to actually do besides just stand there silently while the rest of the episode happened around her, but I was willing to give it a pass once it became clear why she was deliberately maintaining her silence.
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Nov 27, 2023 02:53
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8one6 posted:Also Starfleet computers are ridiculously user friendly. I bet 29th century Badgey popped up as soon as he was inside and went "Golly, it looks like we're stuck in the 20th century. Would you like some help bootstrapping the computer revolution?" Yeah, even a 24th century computer would happily give you plenty of tips on how to build your archaic microchips better if you were just like 'computer how do I do this with primitive tools'. Not to mention their databases are extremely comprehensive, they probably have info on early 21st century chips directly available for querying. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 02:54
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As T'Lyn put it in Lower Decks, "Starfleet systems are easily circumvented." Also, Cardassian systems don't seem to be much better. Quark is easily able to hack the station's computers to learn which replicators have been fully repaired in "Babel", and Tosk doesn't even have to hack the computer to get it to tell him which level weapon storage is on in "Captive Pursuit". Why you need a security clearance to know the location of functioning food replicators but not weapon storage is beyond me.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:04
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Senor Tron posted:Fake edit: have we ever seen evidence that a federation starship can actually reach relativistic speeds without warp field fuckery and the like? I believe it's even a thing with impulse engines that they do stuff to reduce the mass of the ship.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:11
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Powered Descent posted:Agreed 100%. My favorite way to explain this concept: say you go back in time and give Benjamin Franklin an iPad, complete with a solar-panel charger so that he can use it as much as he wants. Would he be able to reverse engineer it and build more of them? Or even deduce any useful principles from it? He could certainly prove it's an electrical device, but beyond that? Not a whole lot. It's basically magic. And as much as he'd love the calculator, the chess app, and the large collection of porn that you stocked it with (naturally), the solar panel would almost certainly be of much more practical use for him. (But he couldn't reverse engineer that either.) But you're also running into the Egg of Columbus problem at some point. Franklin can't do anything because he's preindustrial and more limited than an early space age society would be. Franklin is screwed because he's got no shoulders to stand on. But the 1960s guy has a lot more to work with before he gets to the point of "I can't quantum entangle this processor." Franklin doesn't even have the terms to not understand. At least the contemporary guy has the terms.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:11
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Sash! posted:But you're also running into the Egg of Columbus problem at some point. Franklin can't do anything because he's preindustrial and more limited than an early space age society would be. Franklin is screwed because he's got no shoulders to stand on. But the 1960s guy has a lot more to work with before he gets to the point of "I can't quantum entangle this processor." So, a 1960s hippie would be able to comprehend (and re-create!) 29th-century technology that's based on subspace and transtators and isolinear circuitry and bilateral kelilactrals because he has the "terms" from... uh... transistor radios? Maaaaaybe something as advanced as the Apollo Guidance Computer, since he was like a slacker nerd genius? You know what, forget Benjamin Franklin, give that iPad to Henry Starling in the 60s. That's less than 50 years difference and he still couldn't have done poo poo to reverse engineer it.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:41
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W.T. Fits posted:As T'Lyn put it in Lower Decks, "Starfleet systems are easily circumvented." How can you not mention the best one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg8o__6bEEY
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Nov 27, 2023 03:55
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We're also forgetting that he didn't just reverse engineer it to revolutionize computer chips. He hacked Voyager on a Windows 3.1 computer and overcame their systems. It's nonsense, and my frustration is that the writers should have been smarter and the audience definitely was. W.T. Fits posted:
A Cardassian might have had a momentary lapse of judgment and tried to feed an ungrateful Bajoran. Do you expect a Cardassian to go around the station unarmed given the savage nature of the workers despite Gul Dukat's best efforts to civilize them? Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 03:58
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Atlas Hugged posted:We're also forgetting that he didn't just reverse engineer it to revolutionize computer chips. He hacked Voyager on a Windows 3.1 computer and overcame their systems. Pretty sure he used the timeship systems for that. Or stuff he replicated with its replicators.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:03
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MikeJF posted:Pretty sure he used the timeship systems for that. He was largely doing it from his desktop.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:03
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Atlas Hugged posted:He was largely doing it from his desktop. Remote desktop? He didn't just hack it with a hail, he hacked it by hijacking and inverting a transporter beam, so clearly it's not just an advanced computer, he had to be using some 29th century tech just to interface with the transporter beam at all. They straight up say it's 29th century tech when they're trying to override his hack. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 04:04
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Powered Descent posted:So, a 1960s hippie would be able to comprehend (and re-create!) 29th-century technology that's based on subspace and transtators and isolinear circuitry and bilateral kelilactrals because he has the "terms" from... uh... transistor radios? Maaaaaybe something as advanced as the Apollo Guidance Computer, since he was like a slacker nerd genius? MikeJF posted:Remote desktop?
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Nov 27, 2023 04:11
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Knormal posted:It's not the device, it's the contents. Drop an iPad off at IBM HQ in 1950 they're not going to be able to do anything beyond play Candy Crush, drop off an iPad with a full offline copy of Wikipedia and the timeline's going to change. ...Fair enough, that's true.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:20
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MikeJF posted:Remote desktop? I mean, that's what I'm saying. He was able to get to 1996 levels of technology by reverse engineering 29th century tech that was presumably at least a little damaged. The show also goes out of its way to explain that he's planning the time raid because he's gotten 100% out of it what he can (1996 tech). He himself is shown using and interfacing with 1990s tech on that desktop. Janeway even struggles with it because she compares it to learning pre-industrial survival techniques, an interesting subject but not a required course at the Academy. The show wants to have it both ways. He's capped out on tech because of his circumstances, and yet he can do literally anything tech-wise that the episode requires of him. The one time his tech "fails" is the transport blocker because "he doesn't understand how to use it". But at the same time he's got a satellite in orbit that is able to lock on to him so the time ship can transport him back to the planet. It's just not coherent and it can't be coherent within the perimeters they've set. He has the tech and knowhow to gently caress with Voyager, but at the same time he's just a hippy who doesn't understand the toys he's playing with, but at every encounter he still has the edge on a fully trained Starfleet crew. Bleh. It comes across as them needing story beats to fit a narrative arc and just jamming in conflicts and setbacks in a paint-by-numbers way without ever being clever. Combined with the very low-stakes of the episode, and I'm just not having a great time. And I was high, so at the very least I should have been vibing through it and I still was annoyed. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 04:21
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Knormal posted:Star Trek does everything it can to avoid relativistic effects because of all the plot problems it can cause, full impulse is supposed to be 1/4 light speed so you'd definitely get some time dilation over enough distance. I'm pretty sure they've never explained anything about impulse on screen but using a warp field to eliminate time effects definitely sounds like something a tech manual would have come up with. They actually do this in The Orville S3. There's a really good time travel episode where they have to forego an easy return to their own time, but they go relativistic and do time travel the hard way. Orville S3 loving slapped, and I still don't understand how some streaming service somewhere doesn't open their checkbook for the best shot at a new SF franchise that's happened in a long time.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:24
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's just not coherent and it can't be coherent within the perimeters they've set. He has the tech and knowhow to gently caress with Voyager, but at the same time he's just a hippy who doesn't understand the toys he's playing with, but at every encounter he still has the edge on a fully trained Starfleet crew. Bleh. The answer to this is largely just that 29th century Starfleet technology is extremely user friendly. Any time he got one up on Voyager, he was doing it via interfacing with a 29th century original and basically just asking it to do it for him. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 04:28
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mllaneza posted:They actually do this in The Orville S3. There's a really good time travel episode where they have to forego an easy return to their own time, but they go relativistic and do time travel the hard way. Orville S3 loving slapped, and I still don't understand how some streaming service somewhere doesn't open their checkbook for the best shot at a new SF franchise that's happened in a long time. I think the biggest issue with The Orville and why there's not a lot of buzz from streaming services to do anything with it is because it really is just Star Trek with the numbers filed off. If Disney owned Paramount or otherwise got the rights to Trek, I could 100% see them merging the franchises in a crossover event where it's revealed that The Orville and the Planetary Union are a separate timeline that more radically diverged than the Mirror Universe did, which is why we don't see the Trek aliens, but close approximations of them.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:32
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Kazy posted:How can you not mention the best one? Because I'm still at the beginning of Season 1 and only watching one episode a day, so I haven't seen that one yet. 
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Nov 27, 2023 04:33
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MikeJF posted:The answer to this is largely just that 29th century Starfleet technology is extremely user friendly. It's not really worth dragging this out. If that's satisfactory for you, sure. I'm not going to tell you not to like it or that you have to internalize my quibbles with the episode. It's not satisfactory for me is all.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:37
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's not really worth dragging this out. If that's satisfactory for you, sure. I'm not going to tell you not to like it or that you have to internalize my quibbles with the episode. It's not satisfactory for me is all. You sound like all my exes, except they weren't talking about TV
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Nov 27, 2023 04:40
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Atlas Hugged posted:If Disney owned Paramount or otherwise got the rights to Trek, I could 100% see them merging the franchises in a crossover event where it's revealed that The Orville and the Planetary Union are a separate timeline that more radically diverged than the Mirror Universe did, which is why we don't see the Trek aliens, but close approximations of them. That's kind of a fun question. If the two universes map onto each other, which planet would correspond to which? Like maybe Moclus is that universe's Qo'noS, Krill is known as Andoria on the Trek side of the curtain, and Kaylon-1 is otherwise known as Romulus. (Or any other possible combination.)
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Nov 27, 2023 04:56
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Knormal posted:It's not the device, it's the contents. Drop an iPad off at IBM HQ in 1950 they're not going to be able to do anything beyond play Candy Crush, drop off an iPad with a full offline copy of Wikipedia and the timeline's going to change. I get your point but you're really underestimating some of the engineering wizards of the era. A quick trip to Wikipedia says the electron microscope was developed in the 20s and 30s so that should let them figure out the basic structures on the chip. By the 1950s an engineer at IBM (or better yet Bell Labs) will have enough know how to at least tease out the basics of what's going on in the iPad. They're not going to immediately be able to replicate things like the processor or memory, but there are enough discreet bits on the motherboard that a steady hand with a soldering iron will give them plenty of examples to use the jumpstart the development of circuit boards or act as a solid road map to integrated circuit design.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:57
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Atlas Hugged posted:It's not really worth dragging this out. If that's satisfactory for you, sure. I'm not going to tell you not to like it or that you have to internalize my quibbles with the episode. It's not satisfactory for me is all. 8one6 posted:I get your point but you're really underestimating some of the engineering wizards of the era.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:16
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I think your problem with some of this is "if it breaks," especially if they only have one example of the thing. It would be an incalculable treasure. So incalculable they might not take it apart! However, if they have ten of them...
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Nov 27, 2023 05:16
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If you can't figure out how it works it's a curiosity not a treasure.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:18
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Nessus posted:I think your problem with some of this is "if it breaks," especially if they only have one example of the thing. It would be an incalculable treasure. So incalculable they might not take it apart! And the timeship would've had a replicator.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:21
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I would also think a timeship built by the time cops would have some kind of redundancy or fail safe built in specifically to stop it being raided for parts if it detected it was in the wrong time, but then we don't have a plot at all.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:24
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The wrong time self-destruct function is the technological descendant of the warp core ejection system.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:28
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Computer, create a piece of 29th century technology that even a 1960s baby could understand.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:28
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Atlas Hugged posted:I would also think a timeship built by the time cops would have some kind of redundancy or fail safe built in specifically to stop it being raided for parts if it detected it was in the wrong time, but then we don't have a plot at all. Star Trek and computer security in general aren't exactly good buddies
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Nov 27, 2023 05:34
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MikeJF posted:Star Trek and computer security in general aren't exactly good buddies Given everything we know about Trek cyber security, you are entirely correct.
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Nov 27, 2023 06:08
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Atlas Hugged posted:I would also think a timeship built by the time cops would have some kind of redundancy or fail safe built in specifically to stop it being raided for parts if it detected it was in the wrong time, but then we don't have a plot at all. Turns out that was the one subsystem on the time ship that catastrophically malfunctioned beyond salvaging during the crash landing.
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Nov 27, 2023 06:26
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Atlas Hugged posted:Given everything we know about
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Nov 27, 2023 06:59
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I think it’s less 1950s IBM getting an iPad and more 1960s IBM getting the specifications for building an ARM chip. Like, yeah, they won’t have the machinery or materials to turn around and make a smartphone, but it’s be enough to leapfrog to the Acorn 20 years ahead. You wouldn’t need to understand how to replicate the Timeships components. Just understanding a few of the basic principles of how they were made, and then applying them to contemporary tech would be enough to give you the sort of leg up he had. Probably still ain’t hacking Voyager with a 486 tho. That was dumb.
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Nov 27, 2023 09:42
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Computer, show me the issue of Wired from March 1997
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Nov 27, 2023 10:08
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:Computer, show me the issue of Wired from March 1997 *computer trills* 
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Nov 27, 2023 10:28
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Well isn't that just special.
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Nov 27, 2023 10:31
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Well, they were twenty years out, but on the right track... even got the emphasis on Push right
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Nov 27, 2023 12:34
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It would be interesting to see a starship Chief of Security who is not a Fight Man but a Computer Man. Aliens beam aboard without permission and instantly get detected by camera/sensors, the bulkheads seal them off and Newman shaking his finger gif from Jurassic Park plays on all the displays
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Nov 27, 2023 14:09
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