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Spaced God posted:Yeah I'm reminded of all of those Kickstarters for MMOs that bragged about everything being user generated and user run content and stuff without realizing how much of that stuff requires a very specific band of user numbers to make it fun and sustainable Oh you mean like Your World? Advertised features of Your World posted:
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Nov 25, 2023 03:54
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Also. It probably can't go without mentioning that goons are historically a good example of why MMO events that depend on good faith volunteering can't work
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Nov 25, 2023 03:56
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FutonForensic posted:Oh you mean like Your World? Upon one drink and some thought this also applies to the original fallout 76 concept Hell you could probably go through the old retsupurae channel and find a dozen others
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Nov 25, 2023 04:11
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Bucnasti posted:For a very brief period Everquest GMs were actual Game Masters. Each server had one that created and ran live events, they even performed ceremonies, like granting characters last names when they reached high enough level. That lasted about two months before the game took off in popularity and it was obviously unsustainable. Sounds like events that happened in MUDs back in the day, which makes sense since it was basically intended to be a graphical MUD
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Nov 25, 2023 04:36
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mycot posted:Also. It probably can't go without mentioning that goons are historically a good example of why MMO events that depend on good faith volunteering can't work Goon groups have eternally been The Heel in games (sometimes by choice, sometimes by fiat from people with EVE PTSD); whether having The Heel in your game is a problem or just implicitly another form of content is going to depend on the game itself. That said, as in all things, your community will be defined by the worst behavior you're willing to tolerate, so saying "well the players are doing X so we'll just let X happen as a form of emergent gameplay (or shrug and say well nothing we can do about that)" is going to be more of a driver of how your events go than any one person or group doing the thing-- and if your community moderation tool is "hope nobody does anything bad" that was a losing proposition in 2003, let alone 2023 It's also yet another testament to the lopsided nature of online social interactions driven by services that only care about active user counts-- even in early MMO days, social ostracism for failures to adhere to expected rules were a part of community self-moderation, but most MMOs are well past the point where that could ever work, between name changes and server meshing. There's no impetus to even pretend to play nice online if the worst you get is a slap on the wrist after 10 people report you and you trigger the automatic moderation action or whatever.
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Nov 25, 2023 04:57
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Spaced God posted:Upon one drink and some thought this also applies to the original fallout 76 concept Everything from breathless random 'Why hasn't anyone ever thought of this!?' 14 year old pipe dreams to massively overfunded corporate boondoggles has tried the exact same poo poo. (and Star Citizen probably needs no introduction) It's downright normie, it's what every clueless TV show depicts video games like since the 90s at least. And which probably hits the point that it's an idea that forgets a video game is a game and there is only so much that technology can actually currently do. Ironically, they already have what these games are trying to do with immersive and reactive roleplay, and it's called... roleplay. That said, that sector has its own problems.
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Nov 25, 2023 07:00
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FutonForensic posted:Oh you mean like Your World? LMAO 
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Nov 25, 2023 07:16
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Honestly, someone who wants that sort of experience could probably do worse than LARPing. I’ve never tried it myself but from what I’ve heard a lot of the appeal is that the good LARPs do have the insane GM to player ratio needed to make it work.
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Nov 25, 2023 11:18
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Gamers still have no idea how to recognize AI Riot games released a trailer for a character in their lovely mobile-game version of league of legends and a bunch of people online were harassing them for "cheaping out with terrible AI VA" https://twitter.com/wildrift/status/1727884755109077484 But it was a real VA and somehow the anti-AI people started harassing him too?  (this tweet is now deleted) The real problem is that riot's direction is apparently dogshit and they just handed the script to this guy without even telling him how to pronounce the character's name. But I don't really get how people jumped from "her name is pronounced wrong in this video" to "AI!!" RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 25, 2023 |
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Nov 25, 2023 21:34
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AI's just the new buzzword for gamers to insult things. I've heard people call poor proofreading a sign of machine translation even though the mistakes (typos, missing words) are not even close to the types of mistakes a machine would make.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:38
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I laughed when the naruto VA said "I can guarantee I did not say that line that way" because there's no way in hell any VA can remember every single read they gave for every single line. Like sure it's easy enough to remember the take that ended up in the game, but it's not possible to remember the other ten takes (times five hundred total lines) that the studio saved but didn't use. There's nothing illegal about a studio going back and using alternative takes they may have saved. Sounds like that might be what happened, as well as splices/edits. As for accusations of AI, that's an unfortunate side effect of internet people demanding a '100% pure human touch' for things that don't require it. Anything subpar or "off" is going to get accused of being AI.
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Nov 25, 2023 21:59
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I did some voice acting once, they absolutely spliced together the many takes I made to get what they wanted. And there is no real reason why they shouldn't either.
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Nov 25, 2023 23:10
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Honestly, all this AI stuff with AI art, AI voice acting has people concerned about the future, which is reasonable. The problem is, it really feels like the narrative is being set by the loudest, most reactionary, dare I say, most chronically online Twitter brained people. Which is why you get people who are whipped up into a frenzy and think that anyone who undermines "the cause," like this VA did, needs to be shouted down by any means nessicary.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:05
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calling anything you dont like 'AI' is the stupidest poo poo imaginable and causes more harm than good, so ofc everyone is doing it
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Nov 26, 2023 03:13
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big black turnout posted:Sounds like events that happened in MUDs back in the day, which makes sense since it was basically intended to be a graphical MUD I was gonna say that reminded me of stuff Dragonrealms does, or at least did back when people I knew were mods. Everyone had their section they were in charge of for events, usually one person doing the heavy lifting (for any given event) and others would support with coding or RP as their skills allowed. Scaling is the big problem there.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:17
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gamers screaming that things are AI as an insult is like people screaming that anything new and also competently made is an industry plant as an insult
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Nov 26, 2023 03:24
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You are all AIs and I am the MainPlayer. This is called Game Theory.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:55
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Endorph posted:calling anything you dont like 'AI' is the stupidest poo poo imaginable and causes more harm than good, so ofc everyone is doing it Yep It's the new "bad design" or "_____ is cancer"; i.e. a way to insult something without understanding or earnestly engaging with it
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Nov 26, 2023 04:21
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Their arguments are palette swaps of reused assets
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Nov 26, 2023 04:39
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big black turnout posted:Their arguments are palette swaps of reused assets "Reused assets" is even dumber because it's like, the big principle in computer science and programming. If you can reuse something to lift part of the work, reuse it! It's only lazy if you abuse it.
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Nov 26, 2023 12:25
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hire fans lol
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Nov 26, 2023 12:44
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:"Reused assets" is even dumber because it's like, the big principle in computer science and programming. If you can reuse something to lift part of the work, reuse it! It's only lazy if you abuse it. Gamers screaming "reused assets bad" with their mouths frothing while I'm here playing Majora's Mask having the time of my life
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Nov 26, 2023 12:49
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Reused assets bad! *preorders the edit: forgot Y0 when counting... FishMcCool fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 13:50
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In FFXIV you can absolutely play "guess what old animation base this new monster uses" Hint: it's either a toad, a tree or Sefirot.
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Nov 26, 2023 13:55
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Devs I like are smart for focusing the time and effort on the important parts while devs I don't like are cheap for reusing stuff and that probably reflects on the rest of the game. But seriously I kind of wish for the return of heavy reuse and faster turnaround, maybe not to the level of Tomb Raider where they did the entire original six game series in 7-8 years and only the last one took more than 1, but the current big game cycle where they spend half a decade remaking everything between releases seems kind of bad.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:05
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In general I think there’s really no one right answer, and it comes down to the game and to the preferences of the devs and of the player base. No-one sane is going to say that something like Doom II would have been a better game if they’d spent a bunch of dev time remastering the Doom I assets and enemies, or that the great early access titles would have been better if they’d halted development every couple of years to redo the graphics. At the same time, when your core gameplay is solid, an asset refresh can have a huge psychological effect on players in terms of drawing people back in and keeping things feeling fresh. That said, I do think standards should be higher for games with a £60+ purchase price, four separate collector’s editions, day one DLC, an Epic exclusivity period, and in-game ads and microtransactions on top of all that. If you’re doing all that then gently caress your realistic trade offs, I want it all.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:58
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pumpinglemma posted:No-one sane is going to say that something like Doom II would have been a better game if they’d spent a bunch of dev time remastering the Doom I assets and enemies,
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Nov 26, 2023 20:37
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https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-wind-down-gaming-brand-nuverse-full-retreat-gaming-sources-2023-11-27/ Another one bytes the dust, I'm surprised that they said that Marvel Snap underperformed since it seemed to be really popular.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:31
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Original_Z posted:https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-wind-down-gaming-brand-nuverse-full-retreat-gaming-sources-2023-11-27/ In the world of mobile games, only doing 100 million in revenue in a year is not going to keep the lights on when youve got four other non-profitable games in market. Edit: Mobile game development, for big titles, is pricier than people think. Sakura Wars for instance cost something like 30 million to develop, no pricing for marketing or maintenance included and an IP the developer owned. Barudak fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 05:36
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Original_Z posted:https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-wind-down-gaming-brand-nuverse-full-retreat-gaming-sources-2023-11-27/ So are they going to shut down Snap?
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Nov 27, 2023 05:41
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Seems more like they're looking for a buyer from what's in the article.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:41
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Barudak posted:In the world of mobile games, only doing 100 million in revenue in a year is not going to keep the lights on when youve got four other non-profitable games in market. Marketing is an absolutely massive cost that tends to get ignored during revenue talks. If a game has expensive user acquisition, even extremely high revenues may be deceiving losses still
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Nov 27, 2023 05:44
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Barudak posted:Edit: Mobile game development, for big titles, is pricier than people think. Sakura Wars for instance cost something like 30 million to develop, no pricing for marketing or maintenance included and an IP the developer owned. Boy I would love to see a broken-down budget for how those 30M got spent.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:52
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Subjunctive posted:Boy I would love to see a broken-down budget for how those 30M got spent. 20M to animate dem titties
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Nov 27, 2023 05:53
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My main problem with Marvel Snap is it seems like you're mostly playing against bots. Why am I unable to play against actual people in this multiplayer game?
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Nov 27, 2023 06:15
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jasoneatspizza posted:My main problem with Marvel Snap is it seems like you're mostly playing against bots. Why am I unable to play against actual people in this multiplayer game? Because if you play against bots in a F2P game they can manipulate your experience it maximize revenue.
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Nov 27, 2023 06:20
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Barudak posted:In the world of mobile games, only doing 100 million in revenue in a year is not going to keep the lights on when youve got four other non-profitable games in market. sakura wars was an infamously mismanaged failure so it's not really a good example of a "typical" game they spent the equivalent of 30 million usd on it (i think most went to hiring super famous A-lister voice actors? the game wasn't technically impressive or anything) but almost 0 on actual marketing and nobody had even heard of it RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 06:20
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pseudorandom name posted:Because if you play against bots in a F2P game they can manipulate your experience it maximize revenue. I thought the usual "encourage monetization in multiplayer F2P games" approach was by setting F2P users against whales so the whales can feel like it was money well-spent and the F2P users see the whales and say "wow I wish I had that poo poo"
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Nov 27, 2023 09:06
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I thought the usual "encourage monetization in multiplayer F2P games" approach was by setting F2P users against whales so the whales can feel like it was money well-spent and the F2P users see the whales and say "wow I wish I had that poo poo" In things like Fortnite and other MOBAs you for sure play against only bots for your first few games so you feel really skilled and the general belief is if you lose too much in a row in a lot of competitive games now it'll give you a pity bot game. Bots are valuable so people feel good so they put more money in.
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Nov 27, 2023 09:15
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jasoneatspizza posted:My main problem with Marvel Snap is it seems like you're mostly playing against bots. Why am I unable to play against actual people in this multiplayer game? I'd say it's something like 25% bots from my experience. I don't play much now but when I did the bots just felt like a quick free win to compensate for all the times real people beat me.
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Nov 27, 2023 09:26
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