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artillery is just math and the math is that artillery doctrine is not sustainable under neoliberalism and thats why ff went feral
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Nov 26, 2023 20:15
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let's not forget to thank the taliban, who by fighting made him shoot a lot of artillery and get brain damaged. also military theory used to at least analyze things somewhat free of ideology, because the results tend to speak for themselves and people who fight each other tend to get mutual respect. FF talked about how there was tons of good material on the relative strengths of the Ukrainian army and the russian one, it's just it got memory-holed as soon as the slava started.
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Nov 26, 2023 20:18
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Ardent Communist posted:let's not forget to thank the taliban, who by fighting made him shoot a lot of artillery and get brain damaged. Yeah, there was quite a bit on the pre-war Ukrainian army; it was pretty much ignored, but in reality it was a large standing force, it had many of their own indigenous systems, and it wasn't a pushover. The fact the Kremlin thought they could walk in was rather nuts in retrospect and t at the same time, the West also discounted everything about the Ukrainians unless they were using Western systems (they obviously they were unstoppable super soldiers if the weapons they were using were from the right countries obviously). As far as mutual respect, look at Gaza, the Israelis before the ceasefire were still having tanks sit around without support, despite constant losses, because doing otherwise would mean they would have to acknowledge Hamas was a threat. That is some impressive arrogance as well. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 20:30 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 20:24
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The same thing happened in Algeria, in Africa. They didn't have anything but a rifle. The French had all these highly mechanized instruments of warfare. But they put some guerilla action on. And a white man can't fight a guerilla warfare. Guerilla action takes heart, take nerve, and he doesn't have that. He's brave when he's got tanks. He's brave when he's got planes. He's brave when he's got bombs. He's brave when he's got a whole lot of company along with him. But you take that little man from Africa and Asia; turn him loose in the woods with a blade. A blade. That's all he needs. All he needs is a blade. And when the sun comes down – goes down and it's dark, it's even-Stephen.
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Nov 26, 2023 20:26
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Ukrainian army was a shambles in 2014 and a small Russian intervention got them Minsk for 8 years. They thought another small intervention could get them another treaty. They got close but didn't account for NATO intervention.
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Nov 26, 2023 20:57
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Ardennes posted:The fact the Kremlin thought they could walk in was rather nuts in retrospect It worked in Crimea in 2014.
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Nov 26, 2023 21:07
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Orange Devil posted:It worked in Crimea in 2014. Georgia 2008 is what I would use as the root for both NATO's and Russia's strategies leading up to Ukraine-Russia tbh.
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Nov 26, 2023 21:13
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Once reality intrudes on ideology, roll a d20. On a 20, you crack-ping into reevaluating. On a 1-19, you double down.
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Nov 26, 2023 21:18
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https://twitter.com/snekotron/status/1728829873161183511quote:I've been looking over the recent Taliban military parade. A recording of it is available on youtube and is over an hour long. taliban tanks, helicopters, rockets, and missiles ftw
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Nov 26, 2023 21:27
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Can someone post 1000 words on the state of the tires and what that tells us about their military capabilities?
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Nov 26, 2023 21:36
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Orange Devil posted:Can someone post 1000 words on the state of the tires and what that tells us about their military capabilities? I converted 1,100 words it into a wordcloud to save some time. 
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Nov 26, 2023 21:51
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Appreciate it!
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Nov 26, 2023 22:40
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The scud truck is just such a fine looking vehicle, wanna put a huge oil drill on top of that bad boy and get it stuck in a marsh somewhere
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Nov 26, 2023 22:44
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Danann posted:https://twitter.com/snekotron/status/1728829873161183511 india did give away a bunch of it's own hinds to the ANA.
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Nov 27, 2023 00:57
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taliban ftw
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Nov 27, 2023 01:18
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Danann posted:Georgia 2008 is what I would use as the root for both NATO's and Russia's strategies leading up to Ukraine-Russia tbh. Why did Russia annex Georgia? I don't actually know the history.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:26
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Votskomit posted:Why did Russia annex Georgia? I don't actually know the history. syq?
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Nov 27, 2023 03:35
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I'm not entirely sure what this means. Are you trying to make fun of me for asking for more info? I don't trust Wikipedia's summaries and I don't know the actual history of what happened there.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:48
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Votskomit posted:Why did Russia annex Georgia? I don't actually know the history. they wanted more peaches and hip hop
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Nov 27, 2023 03:54
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Kindzmarauli.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:01
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Abkhazia and South Ossetia are two parts of Georgia mostly populated by their titular minorities, especially after some prior civil wars. They have each declared independence and Russian troops are safeguarding it. Most of the world doesn't recognize their independence.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:01
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Russia basically threw a bunch of ad-hoc BTGs that overwhelmed Georgian resistance and the government capitulated when the tanks were threatening the capital. NATO's lessons was that for round 2 they would seek out the politically active people (nazi or similar reactionary) and hand them all the levers of the state so that the government would only surrender when there is literally no more soil to be occupied. Russia drew from Georgia 2008 that BTGs can win them a political settlement without the messy occupation of OG Afghanistan.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:02
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mlmp08 posted:I converted 1,100 words it into a wordcloud to save some time. How exactly did you read my mind with your computer? Cerebral Bore posted:i cant speak for ff, but i feel like people like him are less taught and more crack-pinged into correct thought A classical education should contain enough neo classical liberal economics to allow one to understand the flaws of neoliberal economics.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:04
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The issue was that the Russian government didn’t seem interested in acknowledging that the Ukrainian army was modernizing and wasn’t the force that existed in 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/26/us/military-brain-injury-rocket-launcher.html More noggin scrambling from the US Army: the issue with the Carl Gustav has been well known for years, well before the US army adopted it in 2014, but it seems it is probably causing an additional strain on manpower. The big issue with the Carl Gustav is that it launches at far higher velocities than other shoulder mounted RPG/ATGM systems. It is 310 m/s versus a 140 m/s on a RPG-7 and while a higher velocity doesn’t affect the projectile much since it is usually HEAT or a specialized round, it does allow it to hit target at longer distances with more accuracy. The problem is it scrambles the brains of anyone who fires it. The Chinese have a similar system with the same velocity, they just keep theirs tripod mounted. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 06:15 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 04:29
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Votskomit posted:I'm not entirely sure what this means. Are you trying to make fun of me for asking for more info? i thought it was a troll post because russia only annexed georgia in the context of the ussr a century ago, not recently
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Nov 27, 2023 04:32
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russia did not annex georgia. the general background is that once the ussr collapsed in the 90s, georgia descended into civil war along political and ethnic lines much like their southern neighbors in armenia and azerbaijan. during the events of the collapse, the regions of ossetia and abkhazia wanted regional autonomy because they were made up of ethnic minorities (ossetians and abkhaz, you may be surprised to learn) and didnt want the georgians to start up the ethnic cleansing like the azeris did the second there wasnt a strong central government to keep them in check. tblisi saw this as a dire threat to their legitimacy and power, and invaded the abkhaz republic which was the impetus for south ossetia (the breakaway georgian republic) to secede and rejoin with north ossetia (the region just across the border in russia) russia was a mess because the soviet union had just collapsed and nobody knew what anyone else was doing, so the border was porous and people would cross to join both the georgians and the separatists in the fighting. russian troops were more common in ossetia than in abkhazia because that part of the border was more developed (mainly the raki tunnel, which was and remains a major supply route for the region) and it happened later in the timeline. the fighting reached a stalemate and the ultranationalists that wanted the war in the first place launched a military coup of the georgian president, but by the time they acted it was too late - russian regulars from the caucasian district had found their spines and were joining the breakaway republics in greater numbers with all their equipment, so they were more than capable of rebuffing further georgian advances. the military junta knew it was a lost cause and cut a deal with the russians, and agreed to a ceasefire in exchange for the black sea fleet's help driving the presidential holdouts out of their positions on the coast. it bought time for russian peacekeepers to reinforce the breakaway republics, but the georgians remain obsessed with lebenstraum and still regularly shell and attack the republic's territory and peoples. 2008 was just another flareup from ultranationalists in tblisi, but this time they thought uncle sam had their back because they were doing joint exercises with NATO.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:34
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Malleum posted:2008 was just another flareup from ultranationalists in tblisi, but this time they thought uncle sam had their back because they were doing joint exercises with NATO. “It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.” - Henry Kissinger
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Nov 27, 2023 04:36
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i say swears online posted:i thought it was a troll post because russia only annexed georgia in the context of the ussr a century ago, not recently Oh my bad. Guess I fell for the liberal propaganda again. Thanks everyone for the additional context it's great!
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Nov 27, 2023 04:40
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mkhedrioniquote:The Mkhedrioni's members gained an unpleasant reputation as heavily armed thugs who engaged in violent intimidation of their rivals. They were highly visible, wearing what amounted to a uniform of jeans, sweaters and jackets, topped off by sunglasses (even worn indoors). Leaders wore Armani suits bulging with guns, according to one author. Mkhedrioni relied on illegal sources of income (targeting gasoline supplies) and exploited connections with Moscow's Georgian underworld.[1] Mkhedrioni members were often accused of criminal activity, extorting "protection money" from businesses in areas which they effectively controlled, operating roadblocks where drivers would be "fined", smuggling drugs and committing robberies.[2] By 1991, the Mkhedrioni was claimed to have had about 1,000 fighters and 10,000 associate members[1] – considerably more than the official state National Guard. the russians werent exactly covering themselves with glory by agreeing to recognize these guys as part of the legitimate government of georgia, but its very funny that they tried the same whitewashing that they eventually did for azov. sure is weird that western aligned ex-soviet states are all awash in paramilitary organizations that used to be bad but are totally, completely good now and definitely turned a new leaf but are just so invested in the health and safety of their democracy that they're willing to make cross-border attacks on civilians
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Nov 27, 2023 05:03
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Ardennes posted:The issue was that the Russian government didn’t seem interested in acknowledging that the Ukrainian army was modernizing and wasn’t the force that existed in 2014. many have complained the cg was op on bc2
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Nov 27, 2023 05:48
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Weka posted:A classical education should contain enough neo classical liberal economics to allow one to understand the flaws of neoliberal economics. a typical education in neoliberal economics is like 5% actual theory and 95% constructing elaborate mental blindspots against the obvious nonsense in the theory, hth
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Nov 27, 2023 09:09
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Russia didn’t militarily defeat Georgia, Georgia collapsed politically like WW2 France. When that happens then invasions are cool and easy. No grinding down cities just show up poof enemy says gently caress it. It’s a victory disease when nations expect that to happen every time.
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Nov 27, 2023 10:24
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FuzzySlippers posted:Russia didn’t militarily defeat Georgia, Georgia collapsed politically like WW2 France. When that happens then invasions are cool and easy. No grinding down cities just show up poof enemy says gently caress it. It’s a victory disease when nations expect that to happen every time. Ok, but it did almost work a second time though. Ukraine and Russia had worked out a cease fire and neutrality agreement in April 2022, with Russia withdrawing from Kyiv as a good faith assurance, and everything was go for Zelensky to sign and make it official until Boris Johnson promised unlimited support from the west for a total Ukrainian victory and conquest of seceded territories
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Nov 27, 2023 10:40
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almost winning a war is usually not a good thing, tho
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Nov 27, 2023 10:56
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Cerebral Bore posted:almost winning a war is usually not a good thing, tho Well yeah they failed to account for the perfidious west
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Nov 27, 2023 11:28
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They failed to account for their bitter enemies, sounds about right.
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Nov 27, 2023 11:40
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mawarannahr posted:many have complained the cg was op on bc2 All I know about the cg is that I used to work with someone who used to complain that they weren't allowed to train with them as much as they wanted for health and safety reasons
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Nov 27, 2023 12:50
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dta
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Nov 27, 2023 12:51
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Agreed, death to automatics
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Nov 27, 2023 12:58
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big dong wanter posted:Agreed, death to automatics 
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Nov 27, 2023 13:16
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