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When I got my first phone my grades went to poo poo in and the school demanded I leave it in my locker or teacher first thing in day, my grades recovered. then I got a sorta semi smart phone (for the time) my grades went back to poo poo and my then school didn't give a poo poo, so they kept on being poo poo. The "but the calendar notes, recording, etc." sounds exactly the stuff I would make up to parents as to why it was really important for me to have the phone, but I actually did better without it. American parents obsession on having a gps lock on their kids 24/7 like some sort of seagull in a tracking experiment is really weird to me.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:21
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Celexi posted:
THIS computer will be even better at helping me do homework!!
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Nov 28, 2023 03:29
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on the flip side, there's also bad tech usage/implementation from the teacher side. the gbs thread "Post here every time you notice something got shittier for no good reason" had a teacher user complain about the lovely app they have to use and it just encourages the worse out of helicopter parents. we're still in an era of growing pains with technology and tbh i think using less of it is a decent solution.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:32
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James Garfield posted:We already know the answer to that. Voters don't care about material politics. It would make sense if they did but they don't. The tax credit cut child poverty by 50% and was not especially popular. The absolute wildest part of that for me was the like three days when it looked like the Senate was going to have a deal that kept the child tax credit but cut loan forgiveness. Never mind mainstream voters, a number of full-on leftists I knew were willing to burn the place down if all those (implied)rich kid-havers saw a penny while they still owed a penny. The ending was doubly tragic as it turned out, though at least their problem is still being worked on by the administration now that the "stroke of a pen" theory is debunked. But "people with kids" are still a larger and poorer demographic than "people with student loans" and some of them surely care.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:33
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Celexi posted:When I got my first phone my grades went to poo poo in and the school demanded I leave it in my locker or teacher first thing in day, my grades recovered. Now we have PARENTS making that poo poo up as to why their kid "needs" a distraction device all day long. "But what if they want to use their uhhhhh VOICE RECORDER?!?!" again, loving lol, whistle past this graveyard, no kids no future so I don't really care how it goes long term, and I mean our system depends on a slave underclass with poor-to-nonexistent impulse control to even exist, and boy oh boy are we ever going to have a gigantically huge population of those in just a couple of years. I probably would care if I had kids though, especially if I read an article that said "STUDIES SHOW SMARTPHONES IN SCHOOL ARE loving BAD FOR YOUR KID'S EDUCATION."
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Nov 28, 2023 03:33
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The latter two replies seem to just being saying that phones in school are bad. They were not for advocating for an outright ban on phones. Wayne Knight might be advocating for it but is very unclear, so if that's their intent, fair enough. Hell, even the poster who directly replied to me after the fact, JonathonSpectre, limited it to smartphones.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:43
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I can't really imagine a scenario where kids absolutely need their voice recorder apps in the middle of class. At the same time, I think this is probably one of those issues where there is an obviously statistically correct course of action, but the inconvenience and impracticality of implementing it means it will never happen. I don't see any way that a public school is going to be willing to go to the mat on this issue and fight back against parents. It's also going to be difficult to stop kids from sneaking phones in to school. Even if schools actually decided to make smartphones the one issue they really hold their ground on and push back against parents, the first time there is some problem that could be put on the lack of a phone there will be an immediate backlash and backing down. People don't value abstract benefits like improved overall retention for all the kids in class over direct personal convenience.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:48
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Here in Japan, "kid's phones" are relatively common. They range from tamagotchi looking little things for calling/texting a parent and that are sometimes coupled with a "stranger danger" rape alarm and to smart phone look-a-likes that can only text/call the registered parents, use maps, and a few other features. They were horribly unpopular. My store sold maybe three of them, most parents opted for a flip phone instead. I think both carriers discontinued them in a matter of a couple of months.
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Nov 28, 2023 03:49
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TVs Ian posted:When I worked for AT&T, in the pre-iPhone days, they tried one of those. It had buttons for Mom and Dad and like two other buttons to select from 10 numbers that could be programmed into it. No text, voice calls only. I think it was trackable. Verizon had a similar phone around the same time. They were intended for kids who were considered too young for a regular phone. They'd be popular if they were all schools allowed.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:16
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TVs Ian posted:When I worked for AT&T, in the pre-iPhone days, they tried one of those. It had buttons for Mom and Dad and like two other buttons to select from 10 numbers that could be programmed into it. No text, voice calls only. I think it was trackable. Verizon had a similar phone around the same time. They were intended for kids who were considered too young for a regular phone. I'm a teacher here and they're relatively common and great since most kids are commuting on foot or by bus and also attending club activities or extra studies after school. They do their job well by allowing communication between parent and child without being distracting in class.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:17
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 28, 2023 04:17
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World Famous W posted:come the gently caress on with that probe, it was not empty quotes but directly an answer to the first quote there Even taking that first quote as stating an agreement as what Heck Yes! Loam posted immediately beforehand (emphasis mine): Heck Yes! Loam! posted:For some reason people are arguing as if I'm in favor of mandatory phone use during class time. You should probably read my posts again and fix that. That is still not the same as the assertion of (emphasis mine) Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I already posted what a sensible policy was, I'm not doing it again. Also y'all are putting lots of words in my mouth that I didn't argue. What I will say is that banning phones will just lead to the ban being ignored by students and parents, so having rules and enforcing them while allowing students to have access to their devices outside of class time seems more than reasonable. None of those quotes advocated for actually trying to ban phones in even high schools. Which is what Heck Yes! Loam! was trying to imply was being advocated for. So, while I might disagree with the stated reason, Heck Yes! Loam! did not provide a reasonable/in good faith response, IMO. Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 04:22
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I’ll make my position clear: I don’t think kids should have smartphones period, but as far as school goes they should be confiscated on sight except before the first class of the day or after the last class of the day. This is how it worked when I had a phone in high school.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:26
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I'd be willing to bet that the majority of kids who can't stay off their phones in class to the point their grades are suffering would still have bad grades if you took away their phones because there are a lot more fundamental issues going on with them than just access to a phone. I've spent a lot of time on teacher reddit/tiktok lately and phones aren't even in the top 5 (maybe 10) issues teachers are yelling about. Things are bad, very bad. It's a combination of issues but mainly bad parenting and bad administration policies that tie teachers hands in all type of ways and also prioritize not having any type of confrontation with parents. Seriously go browse around there are thousands of teachers posting horror stories every day. It's terrifying and when this generation ages into the workforce it's not going to go well.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:36
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It might be worthwhile to ask the teacher goons on SA in SAL about this.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:48
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do other countries have this problem? or is this just another symptom of american exceptionalism? japan was mentioned and that that country is often stereotyped as being on tech advance trends and they dont seem to have a major issue.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:52
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Fundamentally standard American schools have a bigger problem than phones - regarding too much homework, and too many hours devoted to rote study in the first place. People forget that school is unpaid work for children and many of them simply do not want to be there because it's an unpleasant place with or without phones. While it's impractical to reduce school hours due to the fact parents depend on schools on for babysitting I strongly feel if they reduced the workload they'd get better results from more engaged students. Tinkering with phone policy is just a distraction.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:55
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PhazonLink posted:do other countries have this problem? or is this just another symptom of american exceptionalism? It was mentioned a page ago that Japan has popularized "kid's phones" that lack full internet access. Pleasant Friend posted:Fundamentally standard American schools have a bigger problem than phones - regarding too much homework, and too many hours devoted to rote study in the first place. People forget that school is unpaid work for children and many of them simply do not want to be there because it's an unpleasant place with or without phones. While it's impractical to reduce school hours due to the fact parents depend on schools on for babysitting I strongly feel if they reduced the workload they'd get better results from more engaged students. Tinkering with phone policy is just a distraction. School is not "unpaid work," it's education. The presence of smartphones appears to interfere with that education.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:56
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Discendo Vox posted:School is not "unpaid work," it's education. The presence of smartphones appears to interfere with that education. Study is clearly unpaid work.
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Nov 28, 2023 04:58
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I don't think you can really do kids phones at this point. If a kids friends are on social media and they aren't, they'll consider that worse than death. And you can hardly have children use one phone for school and one for after school. They will just sneak the smartphone into school. You could maybe do a mandatory school app that locks the phone down. D-Pad posted:I'd be willing to bet that the majority of kids who can't stay off their phones in class to the point their grades are suffering would still have bad grades if you took away their phones because there are a lot more fundamental issues going on with them than just access to a phone. i went and looked at teacher reddit and it took me seconds to find posts saying 'smartphones are the bane of my existence'. the not having confrontations with parents bit is an inextricable problem with smartphones, because the school admin will not back you up against parents on smartphone issues. i'm sure many kids struggling with smartphones would struggle without them, but like the whole conversation has revolved around a study saying that smartphones are causing measurable distraction and degradation of school performance, even just by existing. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 05:01
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Never marry, don't have kids, die alone Problem solved
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Nov 28, 2023 05:08
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Never marry, don't have kids, die alone I'm doing my part!
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Nov 28, 2023 05:16
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Speaking as an American public school teacher, the phones are absurd, but that’s a long lost battle. Anyone with a computer is just as distracted. Our school computers come with Microsoft Teams installed and the kids can just text each other on that as easily as on any social media app. The ESL kids that used to write garbled pseudo English responses now just write AI generated responses. The end result is unfortunately worse, they learn literally nothing from copying AI generated responses versus having to have some kind of productive struggle writing their own thoughts. Private schools have much smaller class sizes and actual accountability in ways that the public schools can’t match, so you don’t have the same issues there. The rich kids learn while the poor kids get to play on their screens.
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Nov 28, 2023 05:28
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Even if schools actually decided to make smartphones the one issue they really hold their ground on and push back against parents, the first time there is some problem that could be put on the lack of a phone there will be an immediate backlash and backing down. People don't value abstract benefits like improved overall retention for all the kids in class over direct personal convenience. This got me thinking about all the school shootings and all the stories you hear of kids calling/texting their parents to tell them they love them while cowering in fear not knowing if they were going to live through it. I wonder how many parents secretly are ok with their kids having phones in school because they want to at least get that last "I love you" from their kid if God forbid their school gets shot up. Of course that's what a lot of parents would be thinking instead of "Hey maybe we should do something about all these drat guns".
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Nov 28, 2023 05:30
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Papercut posted:Are you suggesting that you would like the president to start using the DoJ to extort politicians and their families to get their way? Of course not. It's like congressional bribery: It only counts as a bribe if you say it's a bribe. Otherwise it's just a sparkling donation. Apply the same logic; Investigating actual and legitimate claims of criminal activity shortly after Manchin had "very serious concerns" about the bill outlawing the hunting of homeless people for sport is pure coincidence. And to clarify, I specify Manchin's daughter on these rants because at the absolute very least, there's probable cause to investigate. I'm not advocating for making poo poo up out of thin air, I'm specifically saying to focus on the ones who actually have done something worth investigating. haveblue posted:If the DOJ starts investigating Manchin's daughter and he starts voting the way we want, do we continue the investigation? Or not start it if the threat is enough? In that situation, no, follow through. If it actually got to the point that you're investigating the criminal for doing criminal things, then finish the job. Let it send an unspoken message to the next rotating villain who thinks they're going to tank beneficial legislation; You can have little bit a corruption, as a treat, as long as you do your job and vote for the "Actually Good Things for People" bill. I'm not even being that facetious. I am increasingly ok with the idea of some dipshit in congress collecting gold bars to swim around in like they're Scrooge McDuck if it means that they send benefits and good legislation to regular people. Main Paineframe posted:So what's the rest? Are you saying that the Justice Department has evidence of Manchin's daughter committing federal crimes, but that Biden is preventing them from prosecuting? I dunno why you're so keen to put words in my mouth, but obviously something was getting stopped somewhere, considering it was an open secret about his daughter and her bullshit with epipens and how quick his fellow Dems and Op-Ed think piece writers and pundits were to defend his honor and tell him what a special and handsome senator he was anytime someone tried to call him out on his poo poo. Anytime someone ever suggested trying to pressure Manchin to do something beneficial to the party, it turned into an endless conga line of "This is just the Manchin Cycle" and "Trying to get him to do things will just make him switch to Republican! It is absolutely vital we let him do whatever he wants all of the time forever, or else we won't get to be the ones who get to play with the gavel while we stare at our navels and not pass anything of substance because he was against it."
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Nov 28, 2023 05:52
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“No, you see, the totalitarianism will be benign when it agrees with my ideals.” And again, you’re assuming there’s some secret cabal of Democratic leadership that would be directing this. You have provided no evidence of this.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:02
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PhazonLink posted:do other countries have this problem? or is this just another symptom of american exceptionalism? In Australia every state and territory has some kind of phone ban in public schools. Miraculously, kids don’t get marooned at soccer practice! At my last school they could have them before/after school and do a quick check at the start/end of break periods, but other than that they need to be in lockers. There was a tiered system where you had to put it in your locker the first time you were caught, then next time take it to office for rest of day, followed by having to check it at the office in the morning for a straight week on third infraction in a term. Worked fine. American adults seem obsessed with having their say in things even when they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about. You guys vote for stuff like tax collector, school board, etc? Just leave it to the experts, sheesh. I can count on one hand the number of times a parent clapped back at me in 6.5 years of teaching secondary in Australia (and in most of those instances they had at least somewhat of a leg to stand on) Principals, parents, the general public just generally trust you as a professional to do your job.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:19
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World Famous W posted:i think i missed the I assume it's a reference to: quote:My 10 year old goes to school with a smart phone and she will continue to do so no matter what the school policy is. She rides a bus from a rural area and stays after for extracurriculars. It requires both the parent and student to be able to handle the technology. We have it set up where she can call her parents and a few emergency contacts only, no YouTube or social media, time limits on screen on time, limits on app use time, parental approval for app installs, and a few other critical items. The bolded part is FYGM right-wing thinking; public policy can, and should, enact rules that strongly benefit the public at large, even if it creates restrictions on people that can otherwise "behave". Food hygiene regulations are a good example: some restaurant owners can run a clean kitchen and successfully serve untainted food without any rules, but a lot of others can't, and even the ones that "can" are unlikely to keep up with newer studies, methods, practices, etc. As a result, rules are created to ensure minimum standards, even if this places some unnecessary burden on the "behaved". Obviously a balance needs to be determined, hence sometimes correct accusations of "nanny state", etc., but if every study is saying "this action has major negative consequences and serves little positive benefit" then it makes a pretty good argument for strong restrictions.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:38
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zoux posted:I'm not familiar with ComScore, but from that link With the ubiquity of cell phones schools have gotten atrocious at communicating with parents because it’s just assumed their kids will tell them before the school can anyway. I mean you can’t even rely on them to update their websites with dates for team tryouts or practices or what have you, it’s all Remind and GroupMe and whatever the coach/director/parent volunteer clique are most comfortable with and it’s never the same thing from extracurricular to extracurricular and it’s all word of mouth as to who uses what for which so you better be real proactive and resourceful if you’re new to the school and want your kid to be able to participate. And a new coach or new teacher or new group of parents means switching to yet another app to stay in touch. Add in the constant unspoken dread that your kid won’t be able to reach you to say goodbye if there’s a school shooting and yeah, parents are not going to give that potential lifeline up. And schools aren’t exactly innocent either. They work smartphones into their homework, use google classroom or other apps for everything and hand out chromebooks and then decry how much time kids spend on their devices. Like my kids health teacher had an assignment (on google classroom of course) on tracking your cell phone usage that he couldn’t complete because he didn’t have a phone. I finally had to cave and get him one because I kept missing last minute practice schedule changes (which are so much easier to do now that everyone can be reached at a moments notice) and picking him up late. I’m trying very hard to avoid getting a data plan but you can’t text without one and you can’t get one that just includes talk and text and the school wifi blocks any social media apps or chat apps. The kids of course find ways around it but it’s an ongoing battle. the_steve posted:Personally, I don't see this going anywhere. Personally I would be fine with having all phones checked at the door of each classroom and picked up on the way out. Hell I’d buy or make the drat phone holders. But there’s still the problem of school issued devices being just as distracting. And honestly even before that was a thing my kids would get in trouble for reading in class (like Harry Potter in math class, and teachers were always very apologetic in a ‘I can’t believe I’m saying this but your kid reads too much’ kind of way). I would honestly be totally fine with ‘all devices banned, go back to pen and paper homework and actually learning how to research instead of regurgitating the first link that comes up on google’ but I’m old enough to remember what school was like without any of that (I took an honest to god typing class in high school, had to learn how to manually calculate a centered line and everything. Yet I played Oregon Trail in middle school. The 80s were wild). I’m also old enough to know that you can actually do good research online and in most cases it’s the only reasonable option and computer literacy is a necessary skill in this day and age. I can see both sides but god drat do smartphones disrupt everything. Oracle fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 06:56
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PhazonLink posted:do other countries have this problem? or is this just another symptom of american exceptionalism? Smartphones are an issue everywhere around. Uniquely American seems to be that 1) a school-parent-relation is so strongly defined as a onesided service-client-relation, while in other countries there might at least be a sense that education is a common good; 2) parents claim far-reaching rights in exercising their parental authority, including an individual say in the curriculum and the rules governing school life. At least here in Belgium, parents sign a document with mutual responsabilities, including a smartphone policy (in class = taken away for the day; please help us by not contacting your child). In my classroom, I've touched on trans issues (quite some kids struggling there!), other lgbtq, sex&consent, politics, extremism, religion... without hearing as much as a single complaint from parents, either directly or through the administration. And I'm not even touching on methods or grading. Can't imagine doing anything remotely similar in the US.
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Nov 28, 2023 07:06
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PhazonLink posted:do other countries have this problem? or is this just another symptom of american exceptionalism? America’s school system isn’t exactly designed to help children. Other countries have educational systems that are genuinely meant to prepare people to succeed. American schools are partially warehouses meant to keep children away from parents so the parents can work and partially systems meant to habituate children to the environment of a 19-century factory and to accept arbitrary authority exercised against them, but none of those things are really about giving someone what they need to succeed. Part of the reason parents have gone so insane about school and started seeing teachers as enemies is because they feel the possibility of status threat, that if they don’t press every advantage for their kids, their kids will be poor and have bad lives. A B+ now means they don’t get the mba and the big job at the firm, and that’s teacher’s fault. Teacher must be made to grant the A that will give the child a chance at a piece of the rapidly shrinking pie. I would imagine other countries don’t have this scarcity mindset, or not to the same degree. Honestly, American parents aren’t entirely wrong. I never would have had a chance if my parents weren’t reading to me and taking me to museums and science camp. The school system could never have given me what I needed because that’s not its purpose. I AM GRANDO fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 07:14
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It turns out that none of the unschooling stuff scales (if it even works at small scale in the first place) and the best way to give students a free appropriate public education is in a classroom that has some rules.
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Nov 28, 2023 07:39
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Zachack posted:I assume it's a reference to: There is a bit to unpack here that I think is leading to a lack of rigor in engagement and some really...flimsy argumentation. I care less about the core debate topic of the "phone in school bad: y/n" because we all know the answer is abstractly "yes", but only of us seem to have the practical knowledge or lived experience of "yes, and". Most of the people arguing this point are doing a fine job of it. I want to focus on the specifics of something really pernicious in this specific post. The part you bolded is absolutely not right-wing thinking, and I think this is an issue that comes up quite a bit in a LOT of discussions about right-wing thinking/thought. Saying the state doesn't have a right to police X is not inherently right-wing, and is absolutely more classically liberal to left-wing. "The state doesn't have the right to police X" contrasted against "I am the state", if you will. You are conflating that with the libertarian right position of declaring the state can't do poo poo because it is fundamentally illegitimate unless its doing an oppression it is okay with (because right-wing libertarians are actually just little wannabe authoritarian barons who found some words and terms they can twist around in the American ether and find traction). These are on the surface "same outcome" situations, but you're trying to paint an ideological position from it, and failing to demonstrate that is actually the case here. The deduction you're taking from your bolding [it's not up to the school whether or not she has the phone on her person or in her bag during school hours] is "the school/state doesn't have a right to tell me what to do because I'm of the In-Group or otherwise special snowflake immune", which is the right-wing framing. My takeaway, given they told us their position in the previous paragraph, is that "the school/state doesn't have a right to interfere in my ability to communicate with my child in the most universally available and timely way when the school/state has consistently proven itself incapable of handling this situation in the era we exist in", and if we wanted to add the input from others around this, we would continue with ", especially since the school/state now just gives it as an assumption that this is the way it is, and we're going to take the path of least resistance and just assume everyone has these/has quick access to them". You know, like when schools started to say "email in your assignments" or "upload them", once it became a relatively safe assumption that any kid was capable of doing so. The State Shouldn't Do X Is Not Owned By The Right! Camel case for emphasis! The State doesn't have the right to interfere with my free speech is only bandied about by the right when they are using a diminished understanding of what free speech is or when they're distracting from the real issue (or when they are exceptionally dumb, but its better to assume competent opponents, especially when they are kicking your loving rear end [okay, and occasionally they actually are correct, but that sliver is getting smaller and smaller as the right gets more openly fascistic]). Limitations on the state, a being with a monopoly on force, is leftist as all hell. Telling the state it doesn't have the right to force us to pay private capital for our healthcare is a left-wing position. And yes, there is a balance there, as you pointed out. But you did NOT point out that their position was right-wing, because it wasn't. Pick apart what made you jump to the conclusion their position is FYGM right-wing, because it isn't. And then on the study thing, I'm not aware of any that look at the margin utility of communication with parents/guardians and the like, and how much dependency is built into the system around that these days. Once again, we all agree on the bad stuff its doing, but the whole "no to marginally little utility" part ain't being demonstrated. And depending on what neighborhoods/areas you're in, you'd be rightly ran out of town for saying it doesn't provide any. It's a complicated situation that just banning the phone will not solve unless you could Thanos Snap that decree back into the year 2000 and make Al Gore win and setup a public policy and system to encourage alternatives like the Japanese system or whatever. The fundamental underlying argument that is being made by people you're disagreeing with (for the most part) is "the state is presently incapable of handling duties of guardianship of my child, and therefore does not get to dictate that I cannot close that gap if I must". That's not right-wing, that's just...human. None of them are saying "the state shouldn't do this and we shouldn't be spending resources to improve the state/system except for in its ability to keep the poors away from my child and give those resources to private institutions that funnel the money out of the public communities it is drawing them from". Ethics_Gradient posted:In Australia every state and territory has some kind of phone ban in public schools. Miraculously, kids don’t get marooned at soccer practice! The American Exceptionalism here isn't one of merit, its of the fact that our system is falling the gently caress apart in front of our eyes, and has been since Carter, at a minimum. We do not ban phones in school because we are flatly incapable of doing so, our system cannot handle that, because it is dying. Look what the gently caress the pandemic did to America. Million plus dead, millions permanently disabled in some way with all kinds of weird long term things arising, tens if not hundreds of thousands homeless, families smashed, dreams ended, legitimate local institutions and small business annihilated, an entire generation or two of students massively disrupted and derailed from their already questionable education & socialization, and you think we can ban fuckin' phones? After a pandemic that made them our only lifeline to the outside world and the small communities we're able to forge on our own because the larger ones have collapsed entirely before the ravenous maw of neo-liberalism sucking at that marrow bones of public spaces and freedoms? We can't stop companies from just polluting public waters or supreme court justices from being openly and contemptuously corrupt, if you think the problem is lacking the backbone or where-with-all to just ban phones, you're missing the forest for the trees. Not banning phones is a symptom, a rot, a creeping cancer killing the patient. This is what a system/state dying looks like. And its terminal. That doesn't mean the USA is going to dissolve, although it could. But this configuration of socio-political-economic structure is falling apart in real time. We can't even pass fuckin' budgets for the country, the only way we're banning phones is if it fucks over the powerless and helps the powerful (sup, jails).
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Nov 28, 2023 08:01
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A city could pass an ordinance to keep phones out of its public schools and it would be enforced in the same way as any other local law. There are local laws in some places mandating that teachers call the parents if a student goes by a name other than their legal name, and those laws are being enforced, and others that require school libraries to search for and remove books that represent homosexuality, and the librarians are punished if they don’t apply the ambiguous standards of those laws. Banning phones seems less fantastical to me than those sorts of laws. There are just probably reasons that laws banning cell phones from school districts are unpopular.
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Nov 28, 2023 08:09
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Discendo Vox posted:Futility arguments aren't valid when they're made with literally addictive substances, let alone phones in schools. ? They absolutely are, that's literally why the US abandoned Prohibition and are ceding ground by the electoral cycle in the War on Drugs. In the US this battle is lost because enough parents will clearly never accept it to make it a viable policy, just look at the poster who explained as much ITT. Downsides are ignored, downplayed, or simply accepted as the price of something regarded by many as so beneficial as to be mandatory. They might well be wrong - good luck convincing them. The solution is to figure out how to adapt. Integrate smartphones productively or figure out a way to keep them out of direct use but still accessible in a classroom or hell have a system that has enough money, staff, and training that they can seriously guide kids to be responsible with them (Probably a good idea beyond schools!) but we're not unfucking that genie. E; also what TaintedBalance said. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 08:24
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I AM GRANDO posted:A city could pass an ordinance to keep phones out of its public schools and it would be enforced in the same way as any other local law. There are local laws in some places mandating that teachers call the parents if a student goes by a name other than their legal name, and those laws are being enforced, and others that require school libraries to search for and remove books that represent homosexuality, and the librarians are punished if they don’t apply the ambiguous standards of those laws. Banning phones seems less fantastical to me than those sorts of laws. There are just probably reasons that laws banning cell phones from school districts are unpopular. Your kid can’t contact you to narc on the teacher using preferred pronouns in class if they ban phones. In all seriousness, parents all across the political spectrum would lose their poo poo and any school board (city wouldn’t have jurisdiction, most likely) who tried would be sued to a standstill until the next election when they would be soundly voted out. Cops aren’t likely to have a trans kid but you can bet what kids they do have have smart phones so would likely refuse to enforce it. It’s just a total nonstarter.
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Nov 28, 2023 08:29
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Gonna reiterate, the phones should 100% be out of classrooms for tons of reasons, some practical, some morally necessary. But in the US when the schools don't do that it is a hundred percent because they're giving up on it like they gave up on a billion other things and let things happen that shouldn't happen, like existing class sizes per teacher, and pushing students through without even basic reading ability just to get them out of the system. Occasionally a kid really does need a phone but that's easily dealt with with an IEP and paraeducator resources. Oh, you say your American school simply doesn't have paraeducation resources available? Well fuckin sucks huh
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Nov 28, 2023 08:32
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It would also probably change several different equations if the rate of trans kids approached 100% and not being trans was socially debilitating and incredibly bizarre. (I mean, I live in hope  )
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Nov 28, 2023 08:35
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E; In these trying times surely we can at least all come together and agree that Quote Is Not Edit
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Nov 28, 2023 08:35
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TaintedBalance posted:
Zachack fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 08:37
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