(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
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jettisonedstuff posted:Isn't there ongoing expense from the Gardiner and Don Valley parkway? How is it only one year of savings from uploading all of that to the province? We're getting one-time cash infusions in exchange for the assets. In theory, yes, that's a significant ongoing expense off the books too. However it also ensure that the city never again has a say in the operation of the road or the use of the land, in perpetuity. I get the impression the one-time fees are going to paper over a hole in the budget we can't otherwise fill. That hole may be smaller next year, by the size of the Gardener, but it isn't gone. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 13:40
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:27 |
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I'm curious how it's considered an asset in terms of something that one would pay money to own. It's an asset to the city in terms of...being a road but it doesn't produce any revenue in of itself. Tolling it seems unlikely doesn't it? It'd be like paying money to own a public transit system. Is it the value of the land that comes with it?
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Nov 28, 2023 14:47
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You can read the province's press release about the deal here and the terms here It's not being presented as "here's cash for the gardener", but if you read between the lines, that's effectively what's happening. Toronto is getting provincial funding for a bunch of things the province should already have been helping to fund, and in exchange, the province takes over stewardship of the DVP and Gardener. The value of the roads themselves is debatable, and it's a debate that's been had many times here, now it's up to the province. The press release states they'll remain toll-free, which you can count on for maybe an election cycle. Otherwise, the value would be development of the land and the ability to use it for whatever provincial infrastructure priorities. quote:-Annual operating funding of $330 million over three years beginning in 2024–2025 for new subway-integrated provincial transit projects — the Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the Finch West LRT It's not just the Gardener either, although that's the big ticket item, we also agree to allow the province to do whatever when it comes to any and all development opportunities. Including, but not limited to Ontario Place, The Science Centre, and the general waterfront district. Basically it reads like we will no longer oppose any MZO, so if you're a developer who has an in with a provincial minister, go hog wild. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 14:59
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Furnaceface posted:I live in one of the least walkable/public transit friendly cities in Ontario (maybe even Canada), so a vehicle is a must unless youre rich as gently caress and can afford to have everything delivered. Just buy like a 2009-2016 low mileage Toyota Camry or Honda Civic off the local classifieds, and make sure to get it inspected by an independent mechanic (there are mobile ones that will meet you at the sellers house too). You'll save an easy 20%+ over what you'd get from a dealership
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Nov 28, 2023 15:25
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My 2014 Hyundai Sonata was burning oil, but then Hyundai just replaced the engine for us for free, so that's not too bad. It's still doing good and my wife is a midwife who puts lot of mileage on it. Obviously she needs a car for her work, driving to babies in a hurry. Sadly, our location means I need a second car that we don't drive much because I need to get to work and she's on call. 75% of my work is downtown and I take the GO (never parking downtown and dealing with rush hour traffic again if I can help it), but the other 25% is really not transit-friendly. If I get full-time downtown, we may be able to go to having just 1 car. Also never buying a gas car again - next one will be electric. I hope that in 10 years my kids will be at university, my wife will have an electric car and I won't need one at all - no kids to shuttle around, TMU finally gives me full-time work. As long as I'm dreaming, I hope we get PR, the Liberal party ceases to exist, we get a Green-Socialist government, and we 100% stop extracting fossil fuels.
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Nov 28, 2023 15:54
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I own a used Subaru and really recommend them. The upkeep is minimal, they run forever and they're all four wheel drive.
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Nov 28, 2023 15:57
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Mazda gang represent!
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Nov 28, 2023 16:02
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It’s crazy how much dealerships absolutely rob you. For a half assed cappuccino and a nice waiting room I could’ve paid $250 more for a brake job. Fortunately I found a good mechanic for VWs and he takes care of things for me.
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Nov 28, 2023 16:19
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infernal machines posted:It's not just the Gardener either, although that's the big ticket item, we also agree to allow the province to do whatever when it comes to any and all development opportunities. Including, but not limited to Ontario Place, The Science Centre, and the general waterfront district. Basically it reads like we will no longer oppose any MZO, so if you're a developer who has an in with a provincial minister, go hog wild. Ah. Major major major win for Ford and developers then. That makes sense
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Nov 28, 2023 16:35
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infernal machines posted:we also agree to allow the province to do whatever when it comes to any and all development opportunities But the province can already do this. I think this is more about avoiding the optics of the city being forced by the province to raise property taxes to pay for something that largely benefits the 905. I don't think the Tories want their Toronto caucus to be reduced to Doug Ford (or nobody at all) in 2026.
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Nov 28, 2023 16:36
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Another Bill posted:I own a used Subaru and really recommend them. The upkeep is minimal, they run forever and they're all four wheel drive. This makes me happy.
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Nov 28, 2023 16:38
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-says-tories-turn-back-on-ukraine-1.7039122CBC posted:Trudeau made the comments a day after Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre said his party voted against the updated Canada-Ukraine free trade agreement in the House of Commons because it would compel the war-torn country to implement a carbon tax. The agreement does no such thing. But he saucily ate an apple that one time! Ukraine has had a carbon tax since 2011. Why is everything so loving stupid?
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Nov 28, 2023 17:10
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No longer owning the land under the Gardiner is for sure a downside. As already noted this does make it less likely that it’ll eventually be torn down and even if it were, the province would effectively control what the corridor would look like post demolition. That’s a loss. I’m not really seeing the land development aspect though. The province already has absolute power over that. The only thing that really keeps the province in check is public pushback on MZOs. Sure the City won’t push back publicly now on some lovely provincial projects but Ford never cared what municipalities thought anyway. It’s a small PR win not having to push back on City opposition in the press.
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Nov 28, 2023 17:38
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Yes, if you take the position that the province can and will just do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and the city is vestigial and largely incapable of any level of self-determination, then this is definitely a big win for Toronto. Onwards and upwards.
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Nov 28, 2023 17:51
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That’s not my position of how I see municipalities (I work for one!). But it is how the PCs see them and they tend to act accordingly.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:04
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A month and still no ROE. Hell yeah. I love employers
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Nov 28, 2023 18:08
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The best solution to Toronto's budget woes would have been to implode the Gardiner and then for the city to build market rate purpose built rental buildings all over the Gardener lands and to generate revenue from that. Too bad Toronto suburban councillors are too car brained to allow for that outcome tho.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:21
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Losing expressway access would probably result in a lot of corporate offices relocating to Calgary or somewhere, I suspect those generate a lot of revenue for the city.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:26
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Fornax Disaster posted:Losing expressway access would probably result in a lot of corporate offices relocating to Calgary or somewhere, I suspect those generate a lot of revenue for the city. You think the Gardiner expressway is the reason Toronto is what it is?
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Nov 28, 2023 18:44
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Toronto was became what it is because of transportation links, originally railways and ship traffic on the lakes. This is how all major cities become established.
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Nov 28, 2023 18:50
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If only there was some other way than the Gardiner for workers to get to their jobs downtown. Alas,
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Nov 28, 2023 18:52
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A perfect opportunity to finally build the Spadina Expressway
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Nov 28, 2023 18:57
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The only way to get to work:
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Nov 28, 2023 18:59
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Fornax Disaster posted:Toronto was became what it is because of transportation links, originally railways and ship traffic on the lakes. This is how all major cities become established. Most of the freight comes into/out of the city via the rail links, on trucks via the 400 series highways and the port. Publicly traded companies aren't going go to the expense of moving across the country because their administrative employees can't take an expressway to work.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:06
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I commuted to a corporate office next to the Gardiner for 15 years, I saw plenty of trucks on it. The office has since that time relocated out of the city to the 905.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:09
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So it begins... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/sovereingty-act-clean-electricity-regulations-1.7041533 Alberta invokes Sovereignty Act over federal clean electricity regulations Send out the Truckers. We're doing wexit.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:14
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Good. Alberta 
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Nov 28, 2023 19:17
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Getting the sense our national legal structure is just incapable of dealing with existential threats from anything that isn't a state actor. Which makes sense, when we built it no one was thinking about such threats. We already kicked the can too far down the road for Alberta's sake for decades, we have to draw the lines here and I'm not particularly concerned how we do it. Like COVID, climate change doesn't care about our legal nitpicks. Also shoutout to them being this pissy about everything even with the government using kid-gloves for decades. Always play hardball from the start, it turns out your opponent will always claim you were being unfair no matter how delicately you handle things anyways, so screw it.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:56
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Orthanc6 posted:Getting the sense our national legal structure is just incapable of dealing with existential threats from anything that isn't a state actor. Which makes sense, when we built it no one was thinking about such threats. This is a lesson that [Ll]iberals refuse to learn. Shifting rightward to appeal to a bunch of people who were going to always call you pinko commies and vote for the other guy is, surprise, a losing strategy. But let's not get mad at them for fumbling the ball so hilariously badly, let's all go online and yell at the disenfranchised because they aren't motivated to vote for 99% Hitler.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:02
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ZShakespeare posted:So it begins... So other than Alberta just going "I don't wanna!" to anything the federal government passes, what does this mean, and what can the federal government do in retribution? The article also mentioned Treaty violations. Is this Alberta declaring independence from Canada and ultimately resulting in the new country looking like swiss cheese? If Alberta stays part of Canada but refuses to abide by the federal legislation, can the federal government just cut off all federal funds and leave them to survive off of provincial taxes?
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Nov 28, 2023 20:18
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Randalor posted:So other than Alberta just going "I don't wanna!" to anything the federal government passes, what does this mean, and what can the federal government do in retribution? The article also mentioned Treaty violations. Is this Alberta declaring independence from Canada and ultimately resulting in the new country looking like swiss cheese? If Alberta stays part of Canada but refuses to abide by the federal legislation, can the federal government just cut off all federal funds and leave them to survive off of provincial taxes? Buddy, if you want intelligent analysis of how the different legal mechanisms are going to interact you'll probably need to look somewhere else. My own vibes-based analysis of this is that it's just another step along the road to mimicking America's culture war bullshit where we have an utterly ineffectual centre-right movement endlessly trying to appeal an increasingly radical right wing death cult's voter base because any effectual attempt to make things better would affect the number and absolutely no one anywhere near the levers of power has an incentive to do that.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:39
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I think we're a long way from them actually trying to pull off a Wexit. But if they do intend to go all the way this would be the first real shot of that political war. Which as the article notes is pulling the trigger early, cause the federal regulation they're whining about hasn't even been enforced yet.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:40
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wexit will always be 10 years into the future until the moment it's not.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:42
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ZShakespeare posted:Buddy, if you want intelligent analysis of how the different legal mechanisms are going to interact you'll probably need to look somewhere else. My own vibes-based analysis of this is that it's just another step along the road to mimicking America's culture war bullshit where we have an utterly ineffectual centre-right movement endlessly trying to appeal an increasingly radical right wing death cult's voter base because any effectual attempt to make things better would affect the number and absolutely no one anywhere near the levers of power has an incentive to do that. Where else would you go other than the forum of a long-dead comedy website for intelligent analysis on the long-term ramifications of an unprecedented move by a province lead by a deranged party of lunatics who would gladly slit their own throats if it meant the oil companies could pull an extra drop of oil out of the soil? Reddit?
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Nov 28, 2023 20:48
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Honestly I have no idea, otherwise I’d import it. Almost all of the political analysis I consume is American because, at the end of the day, that will have a larger effect on us.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:55
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The invoking comes with the caveat "to the extent legally permissible" so it's near toothless with bureaucratic interpretation.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:58
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apatheticman posted:The invoking comes with the caveat "to the extent legally permissible" so it's near toothless with bureaucratic interpretation. It really does kinda feel like kayfabe on both the part of the province and the feds. "look at what we're doing to protect you from those dastardly feds! vote for us!" and "look at what we're putting up with from alberta! vote for us!"
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Nov 28, 2023 21:03
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Randalor posted:So other than Alberta just going "I don't wanna!" to anything the federal government passes, what does this mean, and what can the federal government do in retribution? The article also mentioned Treaty violations. Is this Alberta declaring independence from Canada and ultimately resulting in the new country looking like swiss cheese? If Alberta stays part of Canada but refuses to abide by the federal legislation, can the federal government just cut off all federal funds and leave them to survive off of provincial taxes? I want this outcome because it would generate some tremendous content.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:25
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I am also here for Juche Alberta.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:39
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As an Albertan it is very distressing to consider that so many people in my province voted for that big dumb rear end in a top hat. Like, is the entire province high on glue or what the gently caress went on there?
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Nov 28, 2023 21:44
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