F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Actually, that one I can kind of buy. The more you're aware of how much the government and media lie through their loving teeth, the more you wonder why anyone trusts a word they say.

Case in point: Iraq, 2002/03.

Medullah posted:

Just like a lot of the things posted here, there's a grain of truth in every meme but it depends on who's posting it.

Crunch Buttsteak posted:

I mean you could view that as a good point in the grand scheme of things for many reasons, but something tells me that most people who would share that also equate "trust in government" with "wearing a mask in public during a pandemic" or "believing that Biden really won in 2020"

darthbob88 posted:

I've noticed that a lot in conservative poo poo; it's something that sounds abstractly OK, like "the more you understand history, the less you trust your government", "free speech is important", "be proud of your unpopular opinions", but takes on implications once you drill down to the specifics, what history you're supposed to understand, what speech they're concerned about, or what opinions they're referring to.

LonsomeSon posted:

The tax bracket thing is so hosed. A regular-rear end person can be forgiven for not easily understanding safety statistics but you can just read how the tax brackets work and no longer be a rube. It’s not, like, obfuscated or anything, it’s part of the basic structure.

I knew someone in the early aughts who avoided changing jobs for more pay because of that (or it was their rationale anyway, i think they just didn’t want a big change, which should be a fine thing and not require them to avoid becoming slightly less poor).

Dirk the Average posted:

It's also a problem in that it doesn't specify what facet of the government is being discussed. "Government" is way too broad a brush to paint with; even just the difference between local/state/federal means that you're going to have varying levels of trust in each. And then when you drill down further, different agencies, different regulatory boards, and even different branches or employees will all have varying levels of trust. Hell, there's a DMV near me that I always have a fantastic experience at (it's clean, the lines are relatively short, everything is explained well, etc. etc.), and another DMV not too terribly far away that is significantly worse. It's the same organization in the same country in the same state and in the same county, but my trust is very different based on the location.

InsertPotPun posted:

"big government"="government that helps poor and minorites"

darthbob88 posted:

"big government" means "government that makes impositions on me personally". They're not concerned about the government restricting what bathrooms people can use, what books their children can read, or what medical procedures people can have done to themselves, but they are very concerned that the government might stop them from doing anything they want, or ask them to pay for helping poor and minorities.

Dirk the Average posted:

Of course, but I'm talking about criticisms of government on the left as well here. I don't like what our military does abroad, for instance, and I don't trust their operations or restraint, nor do I like that we're spending tons of money on the military instead of spending that money at home on a domestic jobs program that actually helps people.

But that lack of trust in the military doesn't necessarily mean a lack of trust in the FDA, or a lack of trust in my local DMV, or a lack of trust in the CDC, etc. etc. Similarly, I absolutely do not trust police, but that lack of trust doesn't necessarily extend to other local organizations. Hell, you can even have a couple of bad actors in something like a permitting department or an inspection department that impacts local trust in that institution even if the next city over in the same county is fine.

My point is that criticizing "Government" is pointless; we need to be more specific in what we are criticizing about the government.

And yeah, the criticism of "big gubment" from right wing folks in my life has always been a massive dogwhistle about government helping "those people" at the behest of (((them))). I don't have a lot of contact with them anymore.

CuddleCryptid posted:

On the right it's not a dissimilar thing, except they distrust all government organizations *except* the military, because the military is above reproach. Any errors it made is due to the fog of war, whereas federal organizations like the EPA just got straight up bought off. Never mind the fact that yes, the military and especially the intellegence agencies can and do frequently get subverted by corporate interests, since they are shooting at bad guys all is far in war and war.

Neito posted:

Ah yes, the "Bike helmets cause more fatalities" argument. I get that there's a large chance you're being facetious, but it's an argument that comes up fairly regularly, and is somewhat annoying every time; the safety equivalent of "If you get a raise you'll get bumped into the next tax bracket and *lose* money".

quote:

WHY DOES ISRAEL MATTER?
Did you know that the time clock of the return of Jesus Christ isn’t based on America’s timeline? It’s based on what is happening in Israel.
Did you know Jesus wasn’t a “Christian” ? He was a Jew. He celebrated and kept the Jewish holy days and customs, as well as the feasts of the LORD. He didn’t come to eradicate the Torah and writing of the Prophets / Old Testament. He came to fulfill the prophecies that were written in them.
When Jesus returns, He isn’t returning to the United States. The Bible says He is going to plant His foot down on the Mount of Olives and go through the Eastern Gate, which is currently sealed off with 16 feet of concrete. A cemetery was also placed in front of that gate because touching the dead makes a Jew considered unclean and unable to enter the Temple, which is considered Holy. The Word of GOD says He will return there and from there He will rule and reign for 1,000 years.
The final battle isn’t going to be on U.S. soil. It’s going to be in the Valley of Megiddo, in Israel. The Bible says as the nations wage war against Israel Jesus will come and destroy His enemies with the breath of His mouth. 2 Thess 2:8
GOD did not replace the Jews with Christians as some believe. We are actually grafted in with them as you would graft a wild branch into an existing tree.
The Word of GOD says, “When you touch Israel, you touch the Apple of GOD’s eye.” Zechariah 2:8
“He that keeps Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps. The LORD is thy keeper.” Psalm 121:4
“I will bless those that bless you and I will curse those that curse you.” Genesis 12:3
We are also commanded to pray for the peace of Jerusalem in Psalm 122.
ISRAEL matters. 🇮🇱
PRAY FOR ISRAEL.🙏🏻

Medullah posted:

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Zionism.txt: not giving a poo poo about the genocide taking place or even the Jewish people (not that Judaism has gently caress all to do with Zionism anyway). It's all about protecting Israel so that you can get your "heavenly reward" and the Jews, for their part, can be drop kicked into hell for not believing in Jesus.

It's really disgusting and I'm sure Israeli Zionists are well aware of how they're being used by evangelical Christians. They probably let it happen because it suits their genocidal purposes.

Animal-Mother posted:

I remember this discourse. Now almost everybody I know has had it about five times.

Guavanaut posted:

Like and share if you had lead pipes and lead paint and lead gasoline and still survived with an extremely normal brain that thinks that's something to boast about.

the_steve posted:

"We had COVID and we didn't die "
Is going to be the new
"We played in the woods til dark and didn't wear helmets or seatbelts and we turned out fine."

F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:

Zionism.txt: not giving a poo poo about the genocide taking place or even the Jewish people (not that Judaism has gently caress all to do with Zionism anyway). It's all about protecting Israel so that you can get your "heavenly reward" and the Jews, for their part, can be drop kicked into hell for not believing in Jesus.

It's really disgusting and I'm sure Israeli Zionists are well aware of how they're being used by evangelical Christians. They probably let it happen because it suits their genocidal purposes.

Scholtz posted:

Any good "What was George Santos trying to expose? Why was he SILENCED?" emails yet?

I'm surprised I haven't really seen any (beyond the ones he's posted) but I guess he's just that obvious of a fraud.

After The War posted:

There's gotta be something in this thread from the same assholes going on about one poison M&M in a jar of a thousand being an argument against immigration.

CuddleCryptid posted:

At some point I'll have to just give up the facade and admit that I have no idea who George Santos is other than a republican that did all the normal republican corruption stuff really loudly, in a funny way.

CuddleCryptid posted:

At some point I'll have to just give up the facade and admit that I have no idea who George Santos is other than a republican that did all the normal republican corruption stuff really loudly, in a funny way.

quote:

Claim: Santos, the son of Brazilian immigrants, and the first openly gay Republican to win a House seat as a non-incumbent, described himself as a New York public college graduate at Baruch. The college found no record of Santos as a student.
Santos’s response: In an interview with the New York Post soon after the allegations surfaced, Santos confessed he hadn’t graduated from “from any institution of higher learning” and had used a “poor choice of words”.

Claim: He said he became a “seasoned Wall Street financier and investor”, holding jobs at Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. Citigroup and Goldman Sachs said they had no record of Santos ever working there.
Santos’s response: He told the Post he had “never worked directly” for Goldman Sachs or Citigroup.

Claim: Santos said he ran a family-owned portfolio of 13 properties. He asserted in an interview that his “family’s firm”, the Devolder Organization, managed $80m in assets.
Santos’s response: He acknowledged that, far from having an extensive property portfolio, he had been in debt to his landlord – a result of medical debt from his mother’s cancer battle. “It’s the vulnerability of being human. I am not embarrassed by it.”

Claim: He said he ran animal rescue charity, Friends of Pets United. There had been no dog charity, though he may have swindled a veteran over a pet’s medical bills and swindled off an Amish dog breeder with a bad check, according to Politico.
Santos’s response: Santos told City & State that he’d worked on the non-profit but “never claimed to fly solo” on the group. “I was the guy picking up poop, cleaning, getting people, doing campaigns online,” he said.

Claim: He said the Devolder organization had “lost four employees” at the 2016 Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando. But a check over the victims found that none of the 49 victims were connected to the company.
Santos’s response: Santos backtracked, saying the four people had not worked for him directly. “But we did have people who were being hired to work for the company at the time … but yes, we did lose four people who were going to be coming to work for the company.”

Claim: Santos’s campaign website said that his mother was Jewish and his grandparents escaped the Nazis during the second world war.
Santos’s response: Santos later clarified that he was “clearly Catholic”, but claimed his grandmother told stories about being Jewish and later converting to Catholicism. “I never claimed to be Jewish,” Santos said. “I am Catholic. Because I learned my maternal family had a Jewish background, I said I was ‘Jew-ish’.”

Claim: His Wikipedia biography said he landed roles on Disney Channel shows such as Hannah Montana. Politico noted that if Santos’s Wikipedia entry, which contained the Hannah Montana claim, was not written by Santos – who was then posing as Anthony Devolder – it would mean it was written by someone posing as Santos.
Santos’s response: Santos’s communications director, Naysa Woomer, refused to respond.

Claim: He said he had been a Broadway producer who had helped produce Spider-Man: Turn Off The Dark, a 2011 rock musical; a journalist in Brazil; and the target of an “assassination”.
Santos’s response: “I am not a criminal,” he told the New York Post. “My sins here are embellishing my résumé. I’m sorry.”

Claim: He said his five-year-old niece has been kidnapped from a playground by Chinese men, possibly from the Chinese government.
Santos’s response: “Look, I don’t want to go into like, conspiracy theory,” he told the Times. “But you know, if the shoe fits, right?”

Claim: He said his mother, Fatima Devolder, had been in the World Trade Center on September 11.
Santos’s response: Despite immigration records showing she was not in the US at the time, he told One America News that “the toxic dust that permeated throughout Manhattan and my mother being present [in] downtown Manhattan” led to her death in 2016.

Claim: He initially denied being the drag queen Kitara Ravache at the Rio carnival in 2008.
Santos’s response: He said: “I had fun at a festival. Sue me for having a life.”

Claim: A congressional ethics committee said $50,000 in campaign funds had been used to pay for Botox treatments, pay down personal credit card bills and other debt; make a $4,127.80 purchase at Hermès; and for small purchases at Sephora and OnlyFans.
Santos’s response: Santos told the Fox Business Network: “I’ll indulge you this, I just discovered what OnlyFans was three weeks ago, when it was brought up in a discussion in my office. I was oblivious to the whole concept.”

Claim: The North Shore Leader, a local newspaper on Long Island that covers Great Neck – a part of Santos’s New York congressional district three, a wealthy area – began reporting on his alleged fraud in 2020, referring to him as George Scamtos. Editor Kim Tyndall said “voters ignored or didn’t avail themselves” of the reporting.
Santos’s response: “I ran in 2020 for the same exact seat for Congress and I got away with it then,” he told Piers Morgan, adding he “didn’t think” he would get caught.

Claim: Whatever exagerations he had made, he said, the controversy would “not deter me from having good legislative success. I will be effective. I will be good”.
Santos’s response: After his fate was sealed on Friday, Santos stormed out of Congress and warned that the members had “set a new dangerous precedent for themselves”, adding “to hell with this place”.

DTurtle posted:

The most astounding thing is that none of this was found out by Democrats before his election. He completely flew under the radar.