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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Does anyone have any basic primers\interesting quotes about Iraqi performance in Gulf War 1? gradenko_2000 posted:Here is the second part of Chapter 7 of "Armies of Sand": Arab Militaries and Politicization: Iraq
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Nov 28, 2023 18:39
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Thanks!
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Nov 28, 2023 18:49
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Does anyone have any basic primers\interesting quotes about Iraqi performance in Gulf War 1? it's the opposite of that. The Iranians had not only thrown them out of Iran but had even fought on Iraqi soil for quite a while (which is when the Iraqis stiffened and prevented Iran from winning the whole thing). They were absolutely devastated by the war and it was more a broken husk that invaded Kuwait and had to confront the US. The Iran-Iraq war was far larger than most people realize (probably the largest post war since the Korean war and maybe even bigger) and it was brutal for both countries. Think more like France emerging from WW1. BrotherJayne posted:Not sure how you're getting this, given what we're seeing in terms of conscript demographics They aren't actually running out of ambulatory people they can shove towards the front (their population isn't that small). They are running out of the people they consider disposable and who can be persuaded or forced to enter the war. If this fight was existential there are a ton of people they are exempting from the draft and they wouldn't care about making their press ganging less obvious.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:40
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Also, the Iraqis had invaded Kuwait with 88,000 troops, many of them the best they had along with having to garrison the Iranian border. The Iraqi right flank (from their perspective) was extremely weak, out numbered, and out gunned. When the US attacked, it was still largely a surprise, and many of the forces opposing them either surrendered or got mowed down, and there wasn't much behind them to stop them when the US got to the other side. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 00:11 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 00:09
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Has the US lost WW3 yet or what? I'm getting tired of waiting.
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Nov 29, 2023 07:01
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Tom Guycot posted:Has the US lost WW3 yet or what? I'm getting tired of waiting. The thread title is pretty clear on the chronology of this
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Nov 29, 2023 08:22
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FuzzySlippers posted:They aren't actually running out of ambulatory people they can shove towards the front (their population isn't that small). They are running out of the people they consider disposable and who can be persuaded or forced to enter the war. My brother in christ, warfare isn't CoD. A modicum of fitness and motivation is necessary to achieve anything like efficacy with your infantry The fit and motivated well is running dry
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Nov 29, 2023 08:25
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BrotherJayne posted:My brother in christ, warfare isn't CoD. Here is your uniform, here is your boots. Here is your camo painted walking stick. Here is your tactical black knee brace. Can you see well enough to read a map? No? Okay can you see well enough to follow Igor over there? Okay you'll be fine.
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Nov 29, 2023 10:03
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https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1729752931740606676
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Nov 29, 2023 10:06
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BrotherJayne posted:My brother in christ, warfare isn't CoD. I don't think those 50 year olds complaining about getting a half week of training and then told to sit in a trench passed significant fitness requirements. In the current hellscape they need people keeping trenches occupied and getting mangled in mine fields so we're not talking potential operators. With 30 million-ish population they still have a lot of people they can in theory hurl into the machine. Which is why there has been a lot of complaining about all the healthy young men running around Kyiv especially from mangled vets recovering in hospitals shaking their fists at the booming nightlife. There are a lot of ways to avoid the draft and plenty more are doing so illicitly. Ukraine is absurdly corrupt and no one connected has to join the Great War cosplay. That's why it isn't a problem of just not having people, but of having enough accessible people the leadership is willing/able to draft or of motivating people to stop avoiding the draft. It's a political problem. FuzzySlippers has issued a correction as of 10:10 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 10:08
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/29/us-osprey-military-aircraft-with-8-crew-crashes-off-japan "The aircraft disappeared from radar at 2:40pm local time, Japan’s Chief Cabinet Secretary Hirokazu Matsuno confirmed. According to witnesses, the left engine of the aircraft appeared to be on fire as it went down into the sea near Yakushima airport, Japanese broadcaster NHK reported. Nearby fishing boats rushed to the scene, locating three of the crew members." . . . Finest quality. Finest quality.
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Nov 29, 2023 11:26
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It spiraled in
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Nov 29, 2023 12:34
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Ardennes posted:It spiraled in america: not racist enough
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Nov 29, 2023 12:35
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FuzzySlippers posted:This is true. I don't think any Western country or its allies or apparently even countries modeled after it are prepared to handle a serious conflict as their militaries have been optimized for something different. I'm curious if there was ever a conscious decision to focus their militaries on essentially bullying or if it was happenstance. If it ever was a choice they seem to have forgotten they made it considering what is going on in Ukraine and especially Israel. There is a certain amount of laughable shock that fighting competent forces with any degree of commitment is hard. Yeah, my country (the UK) spends enough on defense to be considered one of the world's big military spenders and yet we're entirely incapable of conducting a Ukraine-style war with our current set-up. We just don't have the men, the hardware, the ammo or the productive capacity to sustain a 'proper' war. If the UK government decided tomorrow to actually join the fight and threw everything we had onto the Ukraine front lines, we'd be providing a few thousand battle-ready troops with armoured vehicles plus 150ish tanks. And once those forces were too knocked around to continue fighting (so 6 weeks? A couple of months?), that would be it: there's nothing in reserve. The UK can provide a fig leaf of allied support to US missions; it can carry out light peacekeeping duties; it can assassinate small numbers of lightly armed 'terrorists' from a distance. It can't fight a Ukraine style war and I doubt under our current system, it ever will be able to.
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Nov 29, 2023 13:32
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In some ways, it doesn't matter, there won't be an invasion of Great Britain nor of Central Europe, Russia isn't going to be taking Berlin. However, it does speak to the radical delta between not only the United Kingdom but the West's capabilities and popular perceptions of them. Israel dropped more than two hiroshimas worth of conventional bombs on Gaza and didn't get the result they wanted versus a force that was practically armed from a garbage shop. The fact that Russia (and to a lesser extent China) is run down as military forces so such a extent speaks to fear, not of Russia or China showing up on Britain's (or France's etc) doorstep, but if the West can't bully countries abroad, why should it be allowed to be bully the people at home? Why are people even paying for Britain's military if it could be replaced with a much cheaper defense force (ala Ireland)? It starts to open a can of worms.
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Nov 29, 2023 13:41
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the gift that keeps on giving
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Nov 29, 2023 13:54
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Pistol_Pete posted:Yeah, my country (the UK) spends enough on defense to be considered one of the world's big military spenders and yet we're entirely incapable of conducting a Ukraine-style war with our current set-up. We just don't have the men, the hardware, the ammo or the productive capacity to sustain a 'proper' war. If the UK government decided tomorrow to actually join the fight and threw everything we had onto the Ukraine front lines, we'd be providing a few thousand battle-ready troops with armoured vehicles plus 150ish tanks. And once those forces were too knocked around to continue fighting (so 6 weeks? A couple of months?), that would be it: there's nothing in reserve. it's great isn't it? All that money and it goes no where and what little exists is subpar
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Nov 29, 2023 14:10
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The pockets of wealthy shareholders isn't nowhere. The proper understanding of the liberal state is of an apparatus transferring wealth to the rich from the rest of society, and from as many other societies as they can.
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Nov 29, 2023 14:11
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Ardennes posted:In some ways, it doesn't matter, there won't be an invasion of Great Britain nor of Central Europe Don't be a pessimist.
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Nov 29, 2023 14:57
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You know, I never thought about it that way before, but Ukraine probably is\was the most war-capable European army, not counting Turkey. Who else could put a similar amount of troops or gear on the field? Poland's army is one of the biggest and most geared up in Europe but I'm pretty sure it had fewer tanks and artillery pieces than Ukraine in January 2022. Of course, European states don't need big armies, and shouldn't have them, but the people in charge absolutely believe that they have great military capabilities and that those form moral justification for imperialism/colonialism/exploitation in general.
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Nov 29, 2023 15:02
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European countries who think they have capable armies include the UK, France, Poland, Finland, Greece and Turkey (opinions divded on whether they count as European). Whether they actually do...
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Nov 29, 2023 15:27
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the UK is woefully unprepared for war. They will very likely be defeated first.
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Nov 29, 2023 15:31
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Orange Devil posted:European countries who think they have capable armies include the UK, France, Poland, Finland, Greece and Turkey (opinions divded on whether they count as European). Not too long ago there was a bit of outrage because the (now outgoing) openly fascist party showed pages from a classified Polish defence plan in case of war with Russia. The plan estimated that without full NATO intervention, Poland can fight for 14 days. My memory might be off slightly, but it was somewhere around there. This included retreat to defensible positions, using rivers and so on. The fascist party, ahead of the election, basically said that plan is treason and if they're reelected they'll just fight on the border, "not give up a single centimetre" and win. Bing bong so simple. Edit: the other day I found out that Poland paid $145 million per F-35. You know, the jet with the quoted price of $70m. They're due for delivery sometime. Zeppelin Insanity has issued a correction as of 16:13 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 16:02
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Reminder that the army wants do do away with their helicopters for another tilt rotor monstrosity
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Nov 29, 2023 16:15
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Reminder that the army wants do do away with their helicopters for another vtol monstrosity. that means more dead us troops. i think they've got the right idea
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Nov 29, 2023 16:16
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The UK regularly talks as though it's still the same country that ruled a mighty empire, or even the country that could successfully send a strike force across the world to retake the Falklands. Its so loving cringeworthy seeing some junior defense minister putting their name to newspaper articles with headlines like: "When the British lion roars, Putin trembles."
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Nov 29, 2023 16:18
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Pistol_Pete posted:The UK regularly talks as though it's still the same country that ruled a mighty empire, or even the country that could successfully send a strike force across the world to retake the Falklands. lol can they even take the shenzhen-HK border checkpoint even without the PLA stopping them
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Nov 29, 2023 16:19
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Palladium posted:lol can they even take the shenzhen-HK border checkpoint even without the PLA stopping them dont be silly, of course they can they just don't wanna
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Nov 29, 2023 16:24
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Look, just move the definition of "Europe" inside EU, then neither Ukraine nor Turkey are European countries. It's time for Poland to shine.
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Nov 29, 2023 16:25
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Reminder that the army wants do do away with their helicopters for another tilt rotor monstrosity forget the army, the osprey is (eventually) going to be the new marine one lmao. right now they only make aides and the press corps fly in the ones the marine helicopter unit has
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Nov 29, 2023 16:51
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Raskolnikov38 posted:forget the army, the osprey is (eventually) going to be the new marine one lmao. right now they only make aides and the press corps fly in the ones the marine helicopter unit has obama flew in a v22 to give a speech in the bronx in like 2015
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Nov 29, 2023 21:10
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Nonsense posted:the UK is woefully unprepared for war. They will very likely be defeated first. Don't need to directly attack the UK, just cut off their food imports and let nature do the rest. Food security is something they are sorely lacking.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:14
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Pistol_Pete posted:The UK regularly talks as though it's still the same country that ruled a mighty empire, or even the country that could successfully send a strike force across the world to retake the Falklands. When the angry hamster squeaks, the mountains shake.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:15
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Real hurthling! posted:obama flew in a v22 to give a speech in the bronx in like 2015 Of all the times for an Osprey not to crash.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:17
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Does this count as a Pivot To Asia casualty? We're up to a couple dozen of those at least
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Nov 29, 2023 23:53
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when neolib army runs neolib military equipment
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Nov 30, 2023 02:00
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maintaining a standing army on a permanent war footing is not actually practical in the modern era. it wasn’t even practical in the past without actual outright imperial plunder, and neocolonialism is definitely not gonna cut it
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Nov 30, 2023 02:06
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eSports Chaebol posted:maintaining a standing army on a permanent war footing is not actually practical in the modern era. it wasn’t even practical in the past without actual outright imperial plunder, and neocolonialism is definitely not gonna cut it Yes, which is why continental militaries (everyone other than Britain) used conscription and reserves. Build a tonne of equipment in state arsenals, a sort of Keynesianism, then upon signing for delivery, put it in storage. Conscript every able-bodied man at 18, and then, upon completing their service, put it in the reserve. The actual standing army does not need to be large, a quarter or less of the military you have trained and equipped for mobilization. It's incredibly practical - but - the two things it runs on, state control of the required industry, which operates at a loss, like the parks service, and a social contract strong enough that the population is not just willing to bear, but often enthusiastic about conscription, aren't possible under neoliberalism. The reason Britain had a small, professional military is twofold and relates to your point. First, popular support goes as far as a nation's own borders. As soon as people are conscripted to be sent god-knows-where, the public opposes first the conscription, and if that is not abolished, the overseas expeditions. Second, maintaining a (admittedly smaller) force that is kept at high readiness (for worldwide deployment in wars of empire) is incredibly expensive, it requires the empire. More succinctly, it's never practical to be on a permanent war footing, but countries that are not empires are not permanently at war.
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Nov 30, 2023 02:23
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DancingShade posted:When the angry hamster squeaks, the mountains shake. Britain: moopsy!
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Nov 30, 2023 02:35
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corona familiar posted:Britain: moopsy! Is a British moopsy a slur vampire?
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Nov 30, 2023 03:28
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