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Darth Walrus posted:https://x.com/middleeasteye/status/1729833740514304168?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q According to ISW, there's some armed resistance occuring. ISW is going to be very pro-western military complex (imo), just an FYI for this source if you're unfamiliar. https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1729712099977256970 https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-november-28-2023 quote:Axis of Resistance campaign objectives:
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Nov 29, 2023 16:51
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They keep trying to talk about a ‘two-state solution’ but conveniently ignore the details about how that would actually happen Like I think even a lot of Palestinian activists have long since given up on that being a possibility
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Nov 29, 2023 16:51
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Nothing will fundamentally change.
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Nov 29, 2023 16:53
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FlamingLiberal posted:They keep trying to talk about a ‘two-state solution’ but conveniently ignore the details about how that would actually happen The two-state solution is a political cadaver. It's still a useful fig leaf to let the current policies go on because as long as there is a single palestinian ghetto surrounded by barbed wire and bombed every other week, the Blinken and their peers can still go "Ahem, we're working for peace between the peoples and hopefully we can advance at some unspecified date."
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Nov 29, 2023 17:24
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FlamingLiberal posted:They keep trying to talk about a ‘two-state solution’ but conveniently ignore the details about how that would actually happen If the US had any intentions of a two-state solution that involved a sovereign Palestine, they would actively push back against settlements, which are both war crimes and deliberately sabotaging any hopes of a non-Bantustan Palestinian state. It's a convenient lie because it sounds believable so long as you don't actually look into what Israel is doing.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:26
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Anyone with power in Israel fully rejects the two state solution too so it's just a complete farce.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:26
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Whelp, there goes that, I guess. Serves me right for posting a tweet and getting my hopes up before there is another official statement of full support for Israel. Irony Be My Shield posted:Yeah - they posted about it on Telegram. As I understand it they were firing rockets very frequently prior to the ground invasion. You're right, I actually tracked down the exact tg post from that Guardian article when it was first published but for some reason misremembered whose channel it was. Paladinus posted:Found the original tg post: Paladinus fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 17:26
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quote:"To continue down the path of terror, violence, killing, and war is to give Hamas what they seek. We can’t do that" -- was a reference to how Hamas does not want peace, and not a reference to Israel. "Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself." - WH official to man being beaten while held down.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:51
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Hamas is THE impediment to a two-state solution which is why we successfully got one in the twenty years before it was founded and the twenty years after that where they held no power.
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Nov 29, 2023 18:18
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How do you tell the difference between a PIJ rocket and a Hamas rocket.
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Nov 29, 2023 19:16
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Paladinus posted:Whelp, there goes that, I guess. Serves me right for posting a tweet and getting my hopes up before there is another official statement of full support for Israel. I don't like Hamas or religious fundamentalists of any faith, but one reason why the Zionist lobby critique doesn't sit right with me is Biden's line about how if Israel doesn't exist then the U.S. would've created one. It's like... only if not for that... the U.S. would act according to its values! It's not anti-Semitic necessarily within its own scope but it superficially shares that notion with anti-Semitic discourse which might criticize the "king" but never the "crown."
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Nov 29, 2023 19:24
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Ograbme posted:How do you tell the difference between a PIJ rocket and a Hamas rocket. Sigint connected to the launch?
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Nov 29, 2023 19:24
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:If the US had any intentions of a two-state solution that involved a sovereign Palestine, they would actively push back against settlements, which are both war crimes and deliberately sabotaging any hopes of a non-Bantustan Palestinian state. It's a convenient lie because it sounds believable so long as you don't actually look into what Israel is doing. The US does push back against settlements, at least within the limits of its absolute refusal to back up its pushback with actual action. For instance, the Obama administration openly demanded a settlement freeze, and continued to do so for pretty much his entire presidency. But when Netanyahu ignored him, he fell into the same trap that US attitudes toward Israel have long taken: an unwillingness to back up his demands with actual consequences for refusing. In the end, the only actual action Obama took against Netanyahu or Israel for that was choosing not to veto a single UN resolution condemning the settlements. And even that only happened after the 2016 election, in his lame duck period when he no longer had to worry about elections - he'd been perfectly happy to veto a similar UN resolution back in 2011. Ultimately, that's the big issue in US involvement: the US is unwilling to pressure Israel with anything more than mild criticism, but there's no political will to make that criticism anything more than empty words. On the other hand, the US is willing to put quite a bit of pressure on Palestinian factions.
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Nov 29, 2023 19:36
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How come the U.S. doesn't at the very least go after dual citizens that are American and taking part in illegal settlements, and even settlement terrorism?
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Nov 29, 2023 19:44
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Main Paineframe posted:The US does push back against settlements, at least within the limits of its absolute refusal to back up its pushback with actual action. For instance, the Obama administration openly demanded a settlement freeze, and continued to do so for pretty much his entire presidency. But when Netanyahu ignored him, he fell into the same trap that US attitudes toward Israel have long taken: an unwillingness to back up his demands with actual consequences for refusing. I think it says a lot about US/Israel relations that Obama and Netanyahu had a notably bad relationship and were viewed (at the time) as a low point. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inside-barack-obama-benjamin-netanyahus-strained-relationship/story?id=44414492 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-barack-obama.html
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Nov 29, 2023 19:51
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I said come in! posted:How come the U.S. doesn't at the very least go after dual citizens that are American and taking part in illegal settlements, and even settlement terrorism? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Israel_Public_Affairs_Committee
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Nov 29, 2023 19:53
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vuk83 posted:Sigint connected to the launch? Israel does not have any of that. Sigint that is. https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1729935192716980400 quote:Tonight, the cornerstone is laid in the Gaza Strip for the settlement "Ofir" named after the former head of the Negev Gate Council, the late Ofir Liebstein, who was murdered by Hamas. Ofir was a leader, a man of the Land of Israel, a man of construction, a man of settlement. Children will grow up here And girls who will be educated about his contribution, his heroism and his sacrifice. We will restore the settlements, expand the settlements and add more settlements. The wheat will grow again.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:33
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I said come in! posted:How come the U.S. doesn't at the very least go after dual citizens that are American and taking part in illegal settlements, and even settlement terrorism? Prosecuting them for crimes committed in the West Bank would be extremely difficult without Israeli cooperation, and Congress is unlikely to pass laws making that easier.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:44
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I said come in! posted:How come the U.S. doesn't at the very least go after dual citizens that are American and taking part in illegal settlements, and even settlement terrorism? https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/18/biden-orders-top-aides-to-prepare-reprimands-for-violent-israeli-settlers-in-west-bank-00127940 quote:President Joe Biden directed top officials to prepare visa bans and sanctions for extremist Israeli settlers attacking and displacing Palestinians in the West Bank, according to an internal document read to POLITICO.
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Nov 29, 2023 21:58
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I wonder how they will define both illegal settlements and 'violent settler'. Will you have to be condemned by an israeli court? Merely mentioned in a case? It's kind of a ridiculous waffling as it is, with Bibi expanding the settlements into newly-conquered land right this moment. "This situation will not stands, it's a flagrant violation of existing deals and UN charters, and you can go full throttle as long as you don't put too many americans in your racism colonies!"
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Nov 30, 2023 00:14
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Am happy to extend/withdraw the word thin here. ... Yeah this is just a great post. I think it's a tremendous achievement that Judaism was able to remain a "globally synchronized" religion over time, with a lot of genius innovation and hard work, but obviously this wasn't sufficient to build a national ethos, there was a lot of other innovation and work that went into building those myths and ideas. I said come in! posted:How come the U.S. doesn't at the very least go after dual citizens that are American and taking part in illegal settlements, and even settlement terrorism? Obviously they should, but is the US government generally active in going after dual citizens who commit serious crimes to non-Americans overseas? Even if that's common, I doubt it's common when there's a 100% chance that the citizen will be supported and protected by the state where they are currently.
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Nov 30, 2023 00:20
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Biden also recently delayed shipment of 4,500 rifles to Israeli security squads due to concerns that those weapons will be handed over to right-wing settlers and used in attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank. Not sure how common that action is, or if it's an indication that the US may go further at some point. https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-said-to-delay-shipment-of-weapons-for-security-squads-due-to-ben-gvirs-conduct/
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Nov 30, 2023 00:36
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Groovelord Neato posted:Israel does not have any of that. Sigint that is. I don't think anyone is thinking that Israel is declaring new township inside Gaza, but just in case - the translation is wrong (rather than Gaza Strip it says Otef Aza, meaning around Gaza, the name for the area near Gaza).
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Nov 30, 2023 01:07
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I believe PIJ also claimed a missile attack at around the same time but I can't currently find a source on that.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:54
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Looks like since Israel is keeping the ceasefire limited to Gaza, Hamas also decided that other occupied territories are a fair game. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67575684 quote:Three Israelis were killed and 16 injured after two Palestinian gunmen opened fire at a crowded bus stop in West Jerusalem, Israeli police say. I know that Hamas are not as numerous outside of Gaza, but how much trouble outside of small-scale terror attacks like that can they cause? There were reports about rockets launched from West Bank before Oct 7, but not much since. I imagine Hamas want to involve all Palestinian territories in the war effort and will try to ramp up their activity outside of Gaza. Is it something they are likely to accomplish with attacks like that coupled with being seen as responsible for bringing people back home from Israeli prisons?
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Nov 30, 2023 14:18
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Due to the west bank being so locked down hamas and other groups have very limited ability to recruit, organize, arm and train there, so a lot of it is attacks like this. Because of the fracturing and surveillance of Palestinian communities in the west bank they tend to come from larger communities like Nablus where there are enclaves like the Lions Den, who formed last year. However they are not nearly as well equipped and trained as those in Gaza. So I dont think they see enough value in involving those forces outside of the implicit threat of retaliation that they carry. Also to note: Israel also doesnt consider the occupied territories part of the truce and has been doing near daily raids and mass arrests on Palestinians in the west bank, and this attack is most probably directly spurred by the killing of two children in broad view of cameras yesterday. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 14:58
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Paladinus posted:Looks like since Israel is keeping the ceasefire limited to Gaza, Hamas also decided that other occupied territories are a fair game. Israel sniped two children in the West Bank earlier yesterday. Popped on twitter and the first thing I saw was an 8 year old getting domed.
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Nov 30, 2023 15:07
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https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/ This is a pretty damning indictment of the entire Israeli security apparatus and should lay to rest any claims that Israel is doing all it can to limit civilian deaths and injuries. +972 posted:Several of the sources, who spoke to +972 and Local Call on the condition of anonymity, confirmed that the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed. Really read the whole thing though, it's insane how they just do not care about the lives of anyone who lives in Gaza.
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Nov 30, 2023 16:11
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Groovelord Neato posted:Israel sniped two children in the West Bank earlier yesterday. Popped on twitter and the first thing I saw was an 8 year old getting domed. That's what the attack was directly in response to, although, as mentioned above, Israel's been conducting raids and detaining Palestinians at an unprecedented rate after the Oct 7 attack, and the ceasefire doesn't affect that at all. On the flipside, the ceasefire in Gaza is also doesn't seem to be affected by Israel's actions elsewhere, and will be extended as long as Hamas are willing to exchange more hostages.
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Nov 30, 2023 16:42
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Israel is going to bury the hundreds of cars that got blown up at the music festival. Imo pretty clear cut destruction of evidence https://jpost.com/israel-news/article-774511
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Nov 30, 2023 18:16
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punishedkissinger posted:Israel is going to bury the hundreds of cars that got blown up at the music festival. Imo pretty clear cut destruction of evidence Evidence of what?
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Nov 30, 2023 18:21
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socialsecurity posted:Evidence of what? The IDF blowing people up at the music festival. Notably, all of those cars.
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Nov 30, 2023 18:27
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Is this or joke or we going with “IDF deepfaked all the footage”
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Nov 30, 2023 18:43
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Im sure Hamas killed a lot of people at the festival, it seems unlikely they destroyed hundreds of vehicles though. Likely the IDF killed many civilians with their own indiscriminate fire which has been documented by numerous outlets.
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Nov 30, 2023 18:53
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punishedkissinger posted:Im sure Hamas killed a lot of people at the festival, it seems unlikely they destroyed hundreds of vehicles though. Likely the IDF killed many civilians with their own indiscriminate fire which has been documented by numerous outlets. Maybe Hamas actually had helicopters and tanks, because why else would helicopters and tanks be at a music festival blowing up people Edit: whoops thought this was the other thread sorry.
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Nov 30, 2023 18:56
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is this or joke or we going with “IDF deepfaked all the footage” I guess we'll never know if they destroy the evidence. punishedkissinger posted:Likely the IDF killed many civilians with their own indiscriminate fire which has been documented by numerous outlets. This, too.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:04
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You need to set just a few cars on fire to take out a huge parking lot because they're all packed together and burn very hot. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boomtown-fair-music-festival-fire-hampshire-evacuated-80-cars-destroyed-a7189156.html
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Nov 30, 2023 19:15
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similar looking, but we also have images of individual vehicles outside of the lot that have been obliterated.   we also have Israeli police stating that the IDF hit civilians with at least one attack helicopter on the scene. "According to a police source, the investigation also shows that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived to the scene and fired at terrorists there apparently also hit some festival participants,” https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...000?shem=ssusxt
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Nov 30, 2023 19:28
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There are confirmed reports of civilians who died from IDF's fire, like this man in Nahal Oz https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-15/ty-article/.premium/0000018b-32e1-dff1-a5eb-fefd9bce0000 Haaretz also reported that the police investigation revealed that an Israeli helicopter fired at the ravers (not clear if any of them died and how many were injured as a result). https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...ef-f7fe8ca20000 quote:According to a police source, the investigation also indicates that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived to the scene and fired at terrorists there apparently also hit some festival participants There were also some fake/misinterpreted videos allegedly showing helicopters firing at vehicles at the festival, but they were actually from Gaza proper. Another video alleged that there was a tank at the festival from the start and it was also false to my knowledge. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 19:32
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punishedkissinger posted:Im sure Hamas killed a lot of people at the festival, it seems unlikely they destroyed hundreds of vehicles though. Likely the IDF killed many civilians with their own indiscriminate fire which has been documented by numerous outlets. That's pretty unlikely, because survivor accounts suggest that the IDF didn't arrive at the music festival until three hours after Hamas attacked it. By that time, most of the civilians had likely been killed or captured.
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Nov 30, 2023 19:54
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