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Lid posted:Henkas own and they should be done more often. I’m torn between kinda hating henkas but valuing how they keep people honest at a sports competition level and how funny both critical success and failure ones can be.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:58
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Shiroc posted:I’m torn between kinda hating henkas but valuing how they keep people honest at a sports competition level and how funny both critical success and failure ones can be. I like the way they are now. Legal, but not really accepted. Keeps them happening enough so that the threat keeps people honest but enough of a stigma against them that they don't happen enough to make things super boring if everyone has to be conservative every match. They'd stop being funny if it happens every other match rather than every couple days.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:04
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Really strong scores from everyone overall. I'm in the basement but still had 3 KK.
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Nov 28, 2023 22:12
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I like that henkas end up being a mind game. E.G.: I kinda expect Abi to henka any time he's against Keisho, because they're both kinda one trick ponies and Abi won't probably be able to overpower Takakeisho. But they both also know that? Means that Keisho might be a little less forceful on the tachi-ai which conveys some advantage to Abi. Or maybe I'm just projecting my impressions into the bout. It's also funny to watch rikishis face after a match where one happened, if it succeeded or not.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:42
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I like henkas, generally speaking. They're a solid strategic move and I think they're in a pretty good spot. The threat of them keeps people honest at the tachiai, because they punish overcommitment and excessively hard charges. The stigma against them, on the other hand, ensures that they don't get used so frequently that the tachiai becomes slow and boring because they are expecting one. However, I also don't think they're representative of the kind of dominant sumo you'd want to see from a yokozuna candidate. A henka in a playoff bout to take an 11-4 yusho over an M15? It's a solid strategy, especially with an opponent who gets into his head as much as Atamifuji does, but IMO it's one that smells like desperation and a lack of confidence in his sumo.
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Nov 29, 2023 01:24
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I don't mind them, but I think a lot of things that aren't henkas get called henkas. Sidestepping after impact to hip-throw an opponent is not a henka.
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Nov 29, 2023 02:32
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Lid posted:Terunofuji's greatest moment was in his first makuuchi run when he stopped an old guy getting ozeki again by henkaing him so hard that they wanted him to resign immediately from sumo. lol
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Nov 29, 2023 02:50
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Usually I just dislike henkas because they mean I miss out on a good match. If they're funny they're good, like that match a few basho back when Hoshoryu grabbed the back of his opponent's mawashi as he ran by and hurled him into the audience, or when the henka fails and the rikishi doing it loses easily in embarrassing fashion. If someone does a henka to a guy I'm rooting for then I feel that he should be immediately barred from competition.
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Nov 29, 2023 07:48
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Eldoop posted:If someone does a henka to a guy I'm rooting for then I feel that he should be immediately barred from competition. I tend to react the same way. See also: when rikishi I like fail to anticipate what technique Abi is going to use (a flurry of pokes to the throat while hopping around like a frog on a skillet) and wind up being throat poked into oblivion.
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Nov 29, 2023 08:31
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https://tachiai.org/tag/dirty-henka/page/2/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Sumo/comments/rhpki4/terunofujis_infamous_henka_v_kotoshogiku_this/
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Nov 29, 2023 08:45
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The henka is the natural and necessary counter to a powerful charging rikishi. Fear of the henka discourages steamroller charges, and often if you watch the replay the henka'd wrestler was head-down and not minding his opponent enough. Also, you occasionally get the Teru vs. Kotoshogiku, or the somewhat less celebrated but still excellent Tochinoshin vs. Kakuryu henka (that gave the cup to Asanoyama on Day 14, trivialized the final day, and got Tochi his promotion to back to ozeki). I laughed out loud at that henka, and still smile to remember it. Those are always a delight.
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Nov 29, 2023 10:02
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Tochi's henka was even more hilarious given that the day before he had a controversial loss that I recall should have at least warranted a rematch. That henka was him going 'gently caress you for screwing me out of a win'.
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Nov 29, 2023 11:51
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Yeah, they absolutely robbed him the day prior in a mono-ii against Asanoyama. The Tochi henka is notable to me because it didn’t get the usual disapproving reaction from watchers. This is the best video I can find of the henka now, since the NHK went on their copyright striking spree. https://www.tiktok.com/@allgoodsumo/video/7108650386185080065 Sumostew’s video on Tochi has the Asanoyama mono-ii bout at 10:30ish. Dude got loving robbed. https://youtu.be/mV_xmGrDgUA
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Nov 29, 2023 13:35
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I love a good henka.
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Nov 29, 2023 14:18
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Henkas are good except for when they happen in an important match where I'm hyped up for some really good sumo and to the guy I'm rooting for. They're also good when they fail; I think it was Terutsuyoshi, or maybe Enho, that tried a full-on flying henka once only for their opponent to anticipate it and catch them midair.
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Nov 29, 2023 15:15
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Besides being a necessary counter to a charging rikishi, as Kenning pointed out, I love henkas at the highest levels for all the resulting fallout and handwringing and tut-tutting. I’m a pig for the drama, honestly.
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Nov 29, 2023 16:28
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Khizan posted:Yeah, they absolutely robbed him the day prior in a mono-ii against Asanoyama. The Tochi henka is notable to me because it didn’t get the usual disapproving reaction from watchers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUAuUwwTxQI Found this on YouTube which I hope doesn't get marked soon Hilarious henka tbh
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Nov 29, 2023 20:41
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Henka depends on the henker. Henker>henkee is all good to me, henkee>henker, that's awfully unfair. Didn't catch quite as much of this Basho as I wanted, but thanks Kenning! Less said of my performance the better, but we will come back stronger in the new year. Gamberize!
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Nov 29, 2023 20:48
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I can't remember exactly which basho, but I think it's March 2023: Hoshoryu got henka'd by his opponents for a couple matches in a row, and then Tobi tries to get a third in and gets thrown like a ragdoll.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:05
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It's an absolute pain in the rear end to find any old fights now. 
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Nov 29, 2023 22:27
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There was a fun double henka video that I can find anymore where they wind up turning and swapping sides on the mat before engaging normally.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:03
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Roctavian posted:I can't remember exactly which basho, but I think it's March 2023: Hoshoryu got henka'd by his opponents for a couple matches in a row, and then Tobi tries to get a third in and gets thrown like a ragdoll. Eldoop posted:Usually I just dislike henkas because they mean I miss out on a good match. If they're funny they're good, like that match a few basho back when Hoshoryu grabbed the back of his opponent's mawashi as he ran by and hurled him into the audience Assuming these are talking about the same henka, it's Day 9 of March. I know because I sent a clip of it to a group chat so it was easy to find the date. The only non-rumble link I can find is this one and if the timestamp doesn't work their match is at 26:14, it's still great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTPpVnFWmzw&t=1574s
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Nov 29, 2023 23:13
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Bentai posted:It's an absolute pain in the rear end to find any old fights now. I think I'm going to start archiving the Natto videos. On my nas.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:31
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Kenning posted:
Thanks! Hopefully I'll be more like when Terunofuji won from the bottom rank and less like Tokushoryu. I could have sworn I'd won a tournament before and turns out I did way back in september of 2020. Do you keep track of previous winners? Do we have a Hakuho among us?
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Nov 29, 2023 23:50
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CodFishBalls posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUAuUwwTxQI I always suspected Kakuryu didn't mind that loss too much. That was the tournament Trump showed up with his "President's Cup" to award to the yusho winner. It's possible the notably cerebral Yokozuna preferred to give that particular honor to a lower-ranked rikishi. Either way, it was very satisfying to watch at the time after the previous day's bullshit. One of the few times I've yelled at my monitor after a match.
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Nov 30, 2023 00:33
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MalarkeyToboggan posted:Thanks! Hopefully I'll be more like when Terunofuji won from the bottom rank and less like Tokushoryu. Tokushoryu's yusho was one of the greatest moments in the history of sports. I know you meant the subsequent performance but that singular effort was magical.
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Nov 30, 2023 00:59
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MalarkeyToboggan posted:I could have sworn I'd won a tournament before and turns out I did way back in september of 2020. Do you keep track of previous winners? Do we have a Hakuho among us? I got curious so I went back and looked. I only went back as far as March 2020, because that's the basho that Kenning chose as the Universal Goon Maezumo for seeding the goonzuke so victories before that don't contribute to goonzuke placement. code:Two-time makuuchi yusho winners are: Fluffdaddy, MalarkeyToboggan, Khizan, captainblastum, sivad, Thauros, and Brut.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:18
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pseudodragon posted:There was a fun double henka video that I can find anymore where they wind up turning and swapping sides on the mat before engaging normally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BonSrYM5MP0
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Nov 30, 2023 01:44
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Lid posted:https://tachiai.org/tag/dirty-henka/page/2/ wow. reddit being mostly correct in the comments is flooring me. lmao at the article. teru loving owns.
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Nov 30, 2023 02:24
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Thanks. Forgot it was Haru/Tochi and thought it was just 2 rando midcarders.
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Nov 30, 2023 02:55
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Had some time this morning so I think I filled out the remaining winners by rummaging through kenning's post history in the OG sumo thread, from newest to oldest. Kenning posted:Final results from Kyushu 2019: Kenning posted:Killer basho! Mitakeumi is on a strong ozeki run now, I'm super looking forward to Kyushu! Kenning posted:Final results: Kenning posted:Fantasy sumo final scores: Kenning posted:Final results for Hatsu 2019: Kenning posted:End of basho fantasy results: Kenning posted:I totally spaced posting final results for sumo: July 2018 Cancelled Kenning posted:Final results! Kenning posted:Hey everybody! Sorry for being MIA this weekend, I was out of town again. Here are the final standings! Kenning posted:Hatsu Basho 2018 Fantasy Results
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Nov 30, 2023 13:30
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shoutouts to the ten or so sumo posters who did this year in year out in SAS before it got moved to the Big Men Hitting Each Other forum and exploded in posters
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Nov 30, 2023 13:47
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Single Tight Female posted:Assuming these are talking about the same henka, it's Day 9 of March. I know because I sent a clip of it to a group chat so it was easy to find the date. The only non-rumble link I can find is this one and if the timestamp doesn't work their match is at 26:14, it's still great! Haha thank you for posting this
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Nov 30, 2023 16:06
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combining henka chat with 'videos of old bouts are hard to find', here's mainoumi pulling off a hassoutobi, which i don't think i've seen anyone seriously attempt in the past decade or more (whole vid is pretty great) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcknTDbDT6w&t=605s also this, which i've never been able to find the provenance of and suspect has to be from an exhibition/technique demonstration match, but is still physically impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neoypBY93nA
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Nov 30, 2023 16:08
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Single Tight Female posted:Assuming these are talking about the same henka, it's Day 9 of March. I know because I sent a clip of it to a group chat so it was easy to find the date. The only non-rumble link I can find is this one and if the timestamp doesn't work their match is at 26:14, it's still great! This wasn't the one I was thinking of but it's incredibly good lmao. In the match I was talking about Hoshoryu was the one who henka'd, and as his opponent was charging past him he got a grip on the back of his mawashi and (in my memory at least) flung him off the corner of the dohyo. I'd already enjoyed watching his bouts but I think that was the moment that locked me in as a fan of his, especially as a heel. Iirc he topped it off with that smug little head waggle of his too.
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Nov 30, 2023 21:08
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Eldoop posted:In the match I was talking about Hoshoryu was the one who henka'd, and as his opponent was charging past him he got a grip on the back of his mawashi and (in my memory at least) flung him off the corner of the dohyo. I'd already enjoyed watching his bouts but I think that was the moment that locked me in as a fan of his, especially as a heel. Iirc he topped it off with that smug little head waggle of his too. I think this was against Sadanoumi? But I can't find any video of that match.
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Nov 30, 2023 21:48
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Apraxin posted:combining henka chat with 'videos of old bouts are hard to find', here's mainoumi pulling off a hassoutobi, which i don't think i've seen anyone seriously attempt in the past decade or more (whole vid is pretty great) The way his opponent looks around for a split second like "where the gently caress did he go" is amazing 
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Nov 30, 2023 22:22
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Henkas must be protected AND discouraged. This delicate balance is crucial to sumo. That said, much as I love Terunofuji I am a bit gobsmacked at how many people here seem to take his side on his henka against the ol' Kyushu Bulldozer himself, Kotoshogiku in 2017. It was fair. It was funny. But it was dastardly. Kotoshogiku never henka'd a soul and it seemed cruel to have his final hope of an Ozeki comeback end with a joke at his expense. As an aside, I think Kotoshogiku had one of the more interesting Ozeki careers. He was so obviously one-note in his sumo with his patented hug-and-chug, but he managed to have extremely competitive head-to-head records with all the big names of his day. 36-31 vs Kisenosato 35-31 vs Harumafuji 22-30 vs Kakuryu 8-9 vs Terunofuji 21-30 vs Goeido And then of course he was 7-56 vs Hakuho lol.
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Dec 1, 2023 02:37
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I loved Kotoshogiku and totally held that henka against Terunofuji.
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Dec 1, 2023 02:39
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Terunofuji has only had 6 full basho as yokozuna and 8 where he was partially or fully absent. Kisenosato was 2 and 10. Sumo Association has to be pretty desperate to get one of the young healthy guys into the role and actually have their top guys participating.
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Dec 1, 2023 02:48
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