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Charliegrs posted:He'll surely face consequences this time! I keep thinking about this: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/judge-throws-drunk-drivers-mom-in-jail-for-laughing-at-victims-family-in-court/ Yes I know she only served a fraction of that time.
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Dec 1, 2023 01:33
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Charliegrs posted:He'll surely face consequences this time! Nope. The gag order was for court staff. His wife is presumably not employed by the court. No violation.
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Dec 1, 2023 01:48
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Nope. The gag order was for court staff. His wife is presumably not employed by the court. No violation. If you read the post, he also attacked the clerk. Again.
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Dec 1, 2023 03:18
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The Bible posted:You'll know when they lift it again so they don't have to punish him for violating it. Again. As has been noted, the gag order covers court staff, not Engoron or his family. It has not been violated. Caros posted:If you read the post, he also attacked the clerk. Again. quote:Trump on Wednesday attacked Dawn Engoron, the wife of the judge, Arthur Engoron, and the judge’s clerk, on his social media platform Truth Social.
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Dec 1, 2023 03:25
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zimbomonkey posted:As always, trump has the worst loving attorneys. Yeah everyone knows you get a 4.0 for the semester.
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Dec 1, 2023 03:30
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OgNar posted:But most importantly, its not even his wifes account, she says she doesnt have a Twitter. No ironicat expanding gif big enough considering the whole ginny Thomas... everything
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Dec 1, 2023 08:45
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I feel like Trump going off after the Judges wife is like that crazy guy ranting at the judge that someone made a Rick and Morty of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vN_PEmeKb0 Next time it will be his nieces and nephews and aunties and grand kids. Comstar fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 13:25
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Comstar posted:I feel like Trump going off after the Judges wife is like that crazy guy ranting at the judge that someone made a Rick and Morty of. Which tells you what would be happening if literally anyone other than Trump tried this poo poo.
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Dec 1, 2023 13:32
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"but it did not stop Trump lashing out further" huh what a surprise, better just keep letting him do it for months
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Dec 1, 2023 14:54
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Trump can (continue) to be sued for inciting January 6th riots, dismissing claim of absolute presidential immunity. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cadc.38510/gov.uscourts.cadc.38510.2029465.0.pdf
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Dec 1, 2023 16:18
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SirFozzie posted:Trump can (continue) to be sued for inciting January 6th riots, dismissing claim of absolute presidential immunity. FYI, this is the Federal Appeals court denying Trump's appeal in a per curiam order So basically the equivalent of, "lol no" (but everyone knows you're gonna appeal this to SCOTUS)
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Dec 1, 2023 16:26
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Devor posted:FYI, this is the Federal Appeals court denying Trump's appeal in a per curiam order This SCOTUS has already ruled that Trump can be sued for doing things when he was president that weren't part of his duties. quote:A three-judge panel affirmed unanimously that Trump’s post-election efforts to subvert the 2020 election results were done in his capacity as a presidential candidate — not a president. To change this SCOTUS would have to find as fact (something they shouldn't be doing) that Trump was acting in his capacity as president when he exhorted a mob to 'fight like hell or you're not going to have a country any more.' Interestingly, for as lovely a person as Dershowitz has become, he did put his finger right on this point when he spoke at Trumps impeachment. He came down on the lovely side of it but he did identify it as a key consideration. That is he tried to argue the circular point that when you're president, running for president is one of your duties because your duty is to serve the country and obviously you think you being president is what's best for the country. edit: Katsas whose a Trumpy hard right loon concurred even so, I doubt SCOTUS picks this up. Murgos fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 19:23
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The full decision is here: https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/A3464AEB2C1CB89985258A7800537E73/$file/22-5069-2029472.pdf
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Dec 1, 2023 20:09
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Engoron is going to blow his loving stack. If it were me, I would have already issued an order for a hearing to show cause why I shouldn't gently caress them all up.
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Dec 1, 2023 23:08
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"Show cause why I should not bang my gavel all up and down your dick"
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Dec 1, 2023 23:15
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My assumption is Engoron is just quietly noting down each and every thing he has to decide and will just not give any benefit of the doubt or merit to anything if he can at all determine an even marginal reason to avoid it. Whatever item he can use to escalate damages he will, whatever multiplier he can use to scale them up he’ll throw on. James is asking for 250 million? Doesn’t Trump wish it will be that low. As for the lawyers? I assume this farce with inserting comments into the record about the clerk and then using that as grounds for appeal is going to get them a bar hearing the minute the trial ends. He’s already sanctioned them once and they’ve given him and his staff plenty of reason to sit and dream up more the details to write up.
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Dec 2, 2023 00:59
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the judge is biased because we threatened his wife sure is a tactic
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Dec 2, 2023 01:21
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One issue with Engoron is that while I'm sure he's a competent judge, he is also, ah, a character. It's difficult to imagine him doing anything quietly.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:00
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Federal judge says Trump does not have absolute immunity, denying bid to dismiss election subversion case https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/politics/trump-presidential-immunity-election-subversion-case-chutkan
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Dec 2, 2023 02:31
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Discendo Vox posted:One issue with Engoron is that while I'm sure he's a competent judge, he is also, ah, a character. It's difficult to imagine him doing anything quietly. At a certain point most (ie: not unqualified Trump appointee) judges are to an extent. While IANAL I know enough that I've heard "odd judge behavior" stories about almost every one they've practiced in front of. There is an unfortunate disconnect between what we want to happen and what should happen. We WANT Trump to get slapped around by Engoron until he finally learns to shut up and listen to someone smarter than him. BUT, Engoron acting moderately calm and collected and VERY patient with Trumps antics buffers the case against the inevitable appeals it will have.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:56
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Retro42 posted:At a certain point most (ie: not unqualified Trump appointee) judges are to an extent. While IANAL I know enough that I've heard "odd judge behavior" stories about almost every one they've practiced in front of. Remember that judge that used a penis pump during court?
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Dec 2, 2023 04:05
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Lammasu posted:Remember that judge that used a penis pump during court? Ah yes, your divorce hearings.
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Dec 2, 2023 13:13
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Discendo Vox posted:One issue with Engoron is that while I'm sure he's a competent judge, he is also, ah, a character. It's difficult to imagine him doing anything quietly. He's been pretty quiet while not charging Trump with contempt for some reason
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Dec 2, 2023 14:49
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Aztec Galactus posted:He's been pretty quiet while not charging Trump with contempt for some reason He also let the defense present their dog and pony show about the Trump Organization even though it was completely irrelevant I think they were hoping he'd shut them down so they could cry about being persecuted but Engoron just let them waste time.
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Dec 2, 2023 18:33
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Waste of time is exactly what it is. They'll be on Fox screeching about him doing it anyway. They're fascists, lying is what they do.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:04
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Yeah I don’t think it matters to the Trump base whether he was treated fairly under the law because obviously if he lost then he wasn’t. I think the soft touch is as much for the centrist-decorum audience to feel better about themselves and their judicial proxies so they don’t develop weaknesses via slivers of sympathy.
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Dec 2, 2023 23:47
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It was explicitly and exclusively to reduce avenues for appeal, per the judge himself: https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1724458980590624772 Typically the answer to "why is this happening in court?" is dreadfully mundane and thoroughly disconnected from whatever social ill one would like to attach it to. Engoron's running a bench trial. He's clearly decided that the risk of allowing irrelevant evidence and testimony that somehow sways him is markedly lower than an appellate judge deciding he inappropriately excluded something. Tough to disagree.
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Dec 3, 2023 00:10
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And now a preview of the upcoming Season Finale to the Trump trial. Trumps Lawyer: So you see Appellant Judges, Judge Enregon allowed us to enter any defence and evidence we wanted at the hearing of the trial, no matter how irrelevant it was. This proves that Judge Enregon had pre-determined his decision to find our client liable and thus by allowing us to present our case, prejudiced our clients right to a fair trial. For this reason, you must set aside the verdict of the lower court.
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Dec 3, 2023 10:41
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Trump still seems to be arguing something that doesn’t seem to matter. The point is that he has different valuations for the same property depending on who he was talking to and that his valuations included things they were forbidden from using like potential improvements to properties that were unable to be improved. That the person given a set of incorrect instructions derived a valuation doesn’t seem very useful to counter those basic facts and Engoron seems perfectly comfortable keeping that in mind. So let them talk. It will be over in a couple of weeks.
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Dec 3, 2023 14:49
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Subjunctive posted:Yeah I don’t think it matters to the Trump base whether he was treated fairly under the law because obviously if he lost then he wasn’t. I think the soft touch is as much for the centrist-decorum audience to feel better about themselves and their judicial proxies so they don’t develop weaknesses via slivers of sympathy. There's a lot of meta-strategy going on. Engoron believes in the judicial process and is doing things that will limit the chances his decisions get overturned. As he is the trier of fact he's willing to let the defense make pointless effort as he knows permitting it is irrelevant to his decision while denying it would give the defense a chance to appeal both in the courts and the court of public opinion that they've been wrongfully stymied. Trump and his lawyers must know they've lost, so they've abandoned appealing to the justice system in sincerity and are instead appealing to their audience, specifically Trump and his followers. They're trying to get Engoron to make a misstep, trying to gin up sound bites to get right wing media and its consumers outraged, trying to plant the idea that Engoron and the courts are biased and unfair and persecuting Trump. Each side is trying to cater to its intended audience while countering the moves of the other without also sabotaging their own strategy.
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Dec 3, 2023 15:35
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Some procedural updates in NY regarding the gag order:Lisa Rubin's Twitter feed posted:NEW: I am at the First Department of the Appellate Division (aka NY’s first level of the appeals court), awaiting some form of hearing on whether Trump can further appeal the NY gag order before his trial ends. Stay tuned. I do actually agree with Trump's team on an underlying principle: Speech restrictions should not be permitted/allowed to evade scrutiny solely because the restrictions will soon be irrelevant - and allowing that dynamic gives vast, unwarranted, and inevitably abused power to the government. Of course, they're arguing about the inconvenience/unfairness specific to their client rather than the universally applicable principle which is one of the reasons I remain frustrated with both his band of inept legal dipshits and the very expansive orders sought by the government (and even Chutkan's narrowed order, particularly with the ambiguity of "targeting")... to Engoron's credit, his order is quite narrow and restrained and unlikely to serve as template or precedent for future abuse. The Question IRL posted:Trumps Lawyer: So you see Appellant Judges, Judge Enregon allowed us to enter any defence and evidence we wanted at the hearing of the trial, no matter how irrelevant it was. ETA: Barring something truly weird, he'll be bound by the gag on the stand. https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1731775196988584352 https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1731777192613351657 Paracaidas fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 21:40
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Seems to me like Trump's team of expensive lawyers should have done some loving legal research instead of trying to argue their case in front a clerk rather than making a proper motion.
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Dec 4, 2023 21:55
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Nitrousoxide posted:Seems to me like Trump's team of expensive lawyers should have done some loving legal research instead of trying to argue their case in front a clerk rather than making a proper motion. I have a feeling it was more about arguing in front of the press than a clerk
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Dec 4, 2023 22:25
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Ooooooooooooohhh That's why they've been fighting this gag order issue so hard They *know* that if a gag order is in place when Trump is on the stand he will violate it as hard as he can because he has the self control of a galvanized frog
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Dec 4, 2023 22:33
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Paracaidas posted:Not that I think you're making the point but for clarity's sake - Engoron isn't trying to make Trump's side feel satisfied or fairly treated. My understanding is that he's reducing/eliminating the opportunity for an even a biased judge to review the trial and say that, actually, Trump should have been allowed to present a given expert witness or piece of evidence and that being barred from doing so had a meaningful impact on the result. It is my (again, IANAL) understanding that, though likely insurmountable for Trump, this a much easier and more subjective threshold than that the judge wrongly decided the facts in evidence in making his decision.[url] I agree with all of this. The thing is, any evidence excluded from the trial could putatively have immensely consequential information in it because, by definition, the court did not consider it. In practice it's not so clear cut and the court excludes stuff precisely because they do know what it is, and it's bullshit. But Engoron allowing any old nonsense in is definitely the safer course, thanks to it being a bench trial (lol and lmao that Trump's team just forgot to tick the Jury Trial box). He knows what is actually impactful and can let the defense piss away their limited time on nonsense if it means that a subsequent appeal request can't say "We need an appeal because X, Y, Z pieces of exculpatory evidence were barred from consideration". Plus I don’t think it'll sway any magas and Trump will lie anyway, but I do think it'd make things less convincing if the media was reporting a factual truth that evidence was excluded; regardless of the actual proceedings and procedures of law that's just not something the general public is going to feel totally comfortable with. And we need to be very careful about things that could sway the undecided in Trump's direction for the next year.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:10
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Trump’s Bedminster resort has a new suit filed against it by a former employee who says she was sexually harassed there by a senior employee and it was covered up through fraudulent means when a lawyer, Elena Habba, pretended to be the victims friend and provided what looks like very conflicted and highly unethical advice to settle for a minuscule amount and sign an apparently illegal NDA. A few weeks after the settlement was signed Habba was formally representing Trump. We’ll see if it goes anywhere but the employee has picked up some major league representation. The same lawyer who successfully sued Roger Ailes for sexual harassment.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:15
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I hope she filed a bar complaint too. Intentionally misrepresenting a client or hiding the fact you have a conflict is disbarment level poo poo.
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Dec 5, 2023 01:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ooooooooooooohhh Fighting for the right to slander a law clerk is the stupidest hill to die on.
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Dec 5, 2023 01:15
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Trump Legal Troubles: The Stupidest Hill to Die On
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Dec 5, 2023 01:19
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Lammasu posted:Fighting for the right to slander a law clerk is the stupidest hill to die on. It makes more sense when you think of it as trying to make sure your client with tourettes won't go to jail when he shouts "gently caress" in the courtroom Because he gone testify and so he *gonna* testify
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Dec 5, 2023 01:33
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