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I could be misremembering cause jodies run is the only one I've never watched more than once. But I remember complaining to my wife that it seemed like they were writing so many episodes where the tardis was barely in it. Like some sort of challenge to themselves to write around it or something. Then again the tardis was barely in this last episode and I didn't really care. I'm such a hypocrite
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Dec 1, 2023 20:12
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Resdfru posted:I could be misremembering cause jodies run is the only one I've never watched more than once. But I remember complaining to my wife that it seemed like they were writing so many episodes where the tardis was barely in it. Like some sort of challenge to themselves to write around it or something. As iconic as it is, the TARDIS only matters in so much as it's how the heroes get to The Place.
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Dec 1, 2023 20:29
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Every season requires a Tardis bottle episode to stretch the budget for more content
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Dec 1, 2023 20:46
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Harlock posted:Every season requires a Tardis bottle episode to stretch the budget for more content Somehow true for the show's entire history back to the sixties. But, yeah, you don't need to hang around the Tardis. My point was that in the Chibnall era they always seemed to be jumping right into things and skipping the small moments, so she really might have never had a moment on screen where she gets to fiddle with things.
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Dec 1, 2023 20:52
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To be fair, Chibnall’s console had zero controls aside from the big lever. Nothing to fiddle with makes for a boring console room.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:01
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Fil5000 posted:I didn't think it was RTD he was upset with but one of the directors? HD DAD posted:Yeah he was upset with Keith Boak, who directed Rose and the Slitheen two-parter. Apparently he was a massive rear end in a top hat, but Eccleston may have placed some blame on RTD and crew by proxy for not doing anything about him. MrL_JaKiri posted:And implicitly, and in hindsight, he was upset with Barrowman and the production team allowing Barrowman to be that way on set From a 2018 Radio Times interview with Eccleston: quote:“My relationship with my three immediate superiors – the showrunner, the producer and co-producer – broke down irreparably during the first block of filming and it never recovered,” Eccleston says in the latest issue of Radio Times. quote:“When I left, I gave my word to [then-showrunner] Russell T Davies that I wouldn’t do anything to damage the show,” he says. “But they did things to damage me. I didn’t criticise anybody.” Also (besides just disliking his approach to DW in general), this is part of the reason why I wasn't thrilled to hear RTD was coming back to run the show again, because he's got a pretty clear history of ignoring/tolerating/enabling toxic behavior behind the scenes. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 21:04
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Don't forget that Eccleston was suffering from anorexia at that time.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:11
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Say what you like about Chibnall - and I have - I never heard much bad about behind the scenes stuff in his era. This being said he brought Barrowman back - I'm all for people making restitution and second chances, but when it's back in a role associated with your inappropriate behaviour it's a bit poor taste.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:21
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lines posted:Say what you like about Chibnall - and I have - I never heard much bad about behind the scenes stuff in his era. This being said he brought Barrowman back - I'm all for people making restitution and second chances, but when it's back in a role associated with your inappropriate behaviour it's a bit poor taste. I may be wrong here but I think Barrowman returned prior to the accusations. Wad he in it a second time after them? I've missed quite a few Fourteen episodes.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:23
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I can't tell you how relieved I am to learn that not only am I not the only one who gets perturbed by the TARDIS door not being locked or sometimes even closed, but that I can count in my company David Tennant and RTD 
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Dec 1, 2023 21:26
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PriorMarcus posted:I may be wrong here but I think Barrowman returned prior to the accusations. You are correct and no he didn't return.
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Dec 1, 2023 21:37
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He clearly was meant to though wasn't he, and they changed plans?
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Dec 1, 2023 22:24
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Senor Tron posted:He clearly was meant to though wasn't he, and they changed plans? Yeah, he's appearance sets up him having future knowledge about the Timeless Child poo poo.
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Dec 1, 2023 22:38
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PriorMarcus posted:I may be wrong here but I think Barrowman returned prior to the accusations. Barrowman's behaviour was fairly well known, to the point where RTD's goodbye song parody thing has a line about it. ("Visions of Johnny getting his cock out.")
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Dec 1, 2023 22:49
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PriorMarcus posted:I may be wrong here but I think Barrowman returned prior to the accusations. Yeah, in, uh, what was it, the one where he breaks the Doctor out of prison? I definitely thought that was after the accusations were known (though they've been an open secret for some time I think).
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Dec 1, 2023 22:50
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Yeah looking at the dates I'm wrong in that it didn't hit the news until the middle of the year, but I could have sworn I heard about it years before. Hard to say really.
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Dec 1, 2023 22:57
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It was well known within fandom at the time, but most people wrote it off as Barrowman shenanigans. After Noel Clarke’s sexual assault accusations they were brought back to the forefront, suddenly there was a media fiasco and Barrowman was rightly called out.
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Dec 2, 2023 00:17
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Barrowman always gave me weird vibes as it was. The only time I've truly enjoyed an episode with him in it was Empty Child/Doctor Dances. and with the exception of Children of Earth, I don't like ANY of Torchwood.
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Dec 2, 2023 00:26
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:and with the exception of Children of Earth, I don't like ANY of Torchwood. That's not fair, seeing the end credits is a highlight of every episode
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Dec 2, 2023 00:48
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The first season is a laugh. It's not good, but it's a laugh. Radio plays are awesome though.
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Dec 2, 2023 01:00
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Things I liked about Torchwood: 1. Eve Myles 2. Naoko Mori ...welp, that's all I got.
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Dec 2, 2023 01:01
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Capaldi was good in Children Of Earth. As were the scenes with the 456 negotiating. Oh, Billis Manger was a very compelling performance in S1 too.
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Dec 2, 2023 01:31
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Fil5000 posted:I might have believed you but if you'd said "This will be explained to the viewer via an analogous sequence where the doctor is an Irish garda" then I'd have told you you were insane. The crazy thing is I actually liked that part. It was well told, interesting...but then where they went with it was...yeah. But if symbolized something good, it probably would have been held up as a highlight of the era. PriorMarcus posted:Moffat's overarching story was weird, in the sense that it went on too long and never should of included Clara (so much of it was tied into Amy and Rory and River) and also it ended too soon because Matt wanted out of the role so it's resolution is all crammed into Time (?) of the Doctor. What I really noticed as I tried to imagine RTD pulling this thread to see how much got tore down was that Moffat's stories were often just huge setpieces that went nowhere. Macguffins that were discarded for the Real Plot, which was jn turn misdirection from the REAL PLOT. And yeah, almost all the world or universe ending drama was because of or involving the Doctor, Amy, Rory, River, Clara, etc. Like you take out the 11th Doctor and his extended family and the universe is a LOT less dramatic.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:28
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It took until 2008 for RTD to cast a male companion actor who wasn't a sex pest.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:37
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Astroman posted:What I really noticed as I tried to imagine RTD pulling this thread to see how much got tore down was that Moffat's stories were often just huge setpieces that went nowhere. Macguffins that were discarded for the Real Plot, which was jn turn misdirection from the REAL PLOT. And yeah, almost all the world or universe ending drama was because of or involving the Doctor, Amy, Rory, River, Clara, etc. Like you take out the 11th Doctor and his extended family and the universe is a LOT less dramatic. I don't hate hate the moffat era but I once heard someone describe his Who as jangling keys in your face and I haven't heard anything quite as perfectly descriptive of its issues
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Dec 2, 2023 02:39
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The jingling keys criticism has never made any sense to me. Maybe a stage magician distracting you with confetti while he sneaks a prop into your pocket would be more apt. If anything Moffat's problem is that he sublimates so much of the actual narrative beneath insinuation and character interiority that if you don't buy into the character arcs his seasons become incoherent. Starting from S6-7 onwards, up until Bill showed up, tons of people absolutely could not be convinced to care about Clara or Twelve, and so the show lost their interest. If you didn't buy the toxic co-dependence between 12 and Clara as a compelling seed for television, half the episodes each year were built on a foundation of sand. I think most of s6 and s7 suffer terribly from the underpinning character dynamics being undercooked. But Capaldi and Coleman's dynamic big time worked for me.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:49
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The Eleven/Amy/Rory dynamic worked through the very end, even though the first half of S7 kept stumbling with a series of false endings to their partnership. The Twelve/Clara dynamic was great but it required that the companion be someone who was already experienced in traveling with the Doctor, and I think a lot of people were initially turned off by the fact that Eleven/Clara was basically returning to the Wonderful Mysterious Unique Special Girl Companion well again, to much lesser effect.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:57
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Yeah, Clara was a cardboard dud with Smith, but her arc of slowly becoming a reckless and sometimes untrustworthy wannabe-Doctor that eventually gets her killed was real good.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:58
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I HATED Clara when she was with Matt Smith and was deeply unenthusastic about her sticking around with Peter's run, but goddamn the two of them had great partnership chemistry and they found a good arc for her character. I do think a lot of my hatred in that first half series was because Amy and Rory were my first companions, so them leaving was a big slot to fill. Certainly not Jenna Coleman's fault though. Just Moffat not understanding her until she was with a different Doctor.
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Dec 2, 2023 03:08
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We know that 7B was a production disaster. Nightmare in silver was written assuming Victorian Clara, Moffat was in the middle of dealing with his dying mother which sort of hung over his entire era, the news that Smith was leaving blindsided a lot of the production which is why Time Of is an entire season of plot points shoved together, rearranged, and cut down...
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Dec 2, 2023 03:31
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I still don't like Clara, I won't lie, but I think Moffat did a very bad job by the character during her early run and then did a very aggressive swerve or two later on to "fix" her that just sort of further destabilized her in my mind. I just stopped believing in her as a character and started seeing her a collection of quirks. Didn't she just sort of change jobs multiple times of screen, or was that only the once? Regardless, it didn't help see a consistency to her. Plus the character would go on about duty of care and being a good caregiver to kids and just absolutely broke that rule so many times it stopped being funny and started being deeply obnoxious. The bit in Forest Of The Night where she doesn't realise one of her kids has been missing for, what, a whole night?, is a staggering level of incompetence. She was a bad teacher.
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Dec 2, 2023 03:38
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By the last couple of episodes Clara and 11 were starting to gel a little after a rough start, but I still primarily think of her as a 12 companion, they just had great chemistry together.
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Dec 2, 2023 04:02
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Gaz-L posted:As iconic as it is, the TARDIS only matters in so much as it's how the heroes get to The Place. It's why the movie TARDIS and 12's are my favorite. They look cozy. Lived-in. A place where you read books and drink tea. Harlock posted:Every season requires a Tardis bottle episode to stretch the budget for more content
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Dec 2, 2023 04:16
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I don't get cardboard dud at all, but I did like when they stopped killing her over and over and let her be one Clara. Letting her be the Victorian one would've been incredible though. I really hope we get a non-contenporsry companion this go around I can think why they don't give us it typically, but I want it. The real issue with Smith-Clara is Smith was already too tied up with the Ponds', Amy became his mother in law, they're family. After they've gone, he probably should've too. She did gel more by the end with Smith and the phone call transition was a great moment for a Doctor switchover. Capaldi-Clara better fit and journey. Clara is probably my favourite companion, with same caveat as the Doctor, that I kinda like best whichever run I'm currently rewatching or watching. They're all fantastic.
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Dec 2, 2023 04:28
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I am exactly as bored by the next companion being Yet Another Contemporary British Woman as I am excited for Ncuti. I would swoon to hear we'd get even a secondary character that's either not British, or from a different era or just someone that doesn't make me think "Rose_2 has entered the Tardis"
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Dec 2, 2023 06:05
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RTD will never have the companion be anything other than a contemporary character because he views the companion as the audience surrogate, and it seems doesn't think the audience will relate to anything else.Open Source Idiom posted:Didn't she just sort of change jobs multiple times of screen, or was that only the once? Regardless, it didn't help see a consistency to her. She was a nanny for those two kids during season 7B, but I don't think it was her profession, just helping them out after their mother died? By the 50th she was a school teacher, and that stuck for the rest of her time on the show. Though why she made the change never really was elaborated on.
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Dec 2, 2023 06:08
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howe_sam posted:RTD will never have the companion be anything other than a contemporary character because he views the companion as the audience surrogate, and it seems doesn't think the audience will relate to anything else. I think it's really important to consider that Russell is interested in maintaining a contemporary working class connection in Doctor Who. That's why Donna gives away her money.
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Dec 2, 2023 06:39
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I liked Clara as a character, particularly her Capaldi years, but I really hated something about the character’s last few episodes and eventual fate. I can’t even really describe it with any eloquence or actual analysis, it just did not gel for me at all and did so in a way that made me actively angry watching the episodes. It’s almost like a combination of wasted potential and just general fatigue with Moffat constantly having his cake and eating it too when it came to his characters.
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Dec 2, 2023 07:29
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howe_sam posted:RTD will never have the companion be anything other than a contemporary character because he views the companion as the audience surrogate, and it seems doesn't think the audience will relate to anything else.
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Dec 2, 2023 07:40
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As much as I like 5’s or 13’s full tardis crews, having a single companion is just easier all around. You don’t end up with episodes where half the companions don’t have anything to do or are completely forgotten until the last act, plus it lets you focus more on other guest characters that are only relevant to the current episode.
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Dec 2, 2023 07:44
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