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Guess who else is ancient history?
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Dec 1, 2023 18:58
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WoodrowSkillson posted:yet the name comes from latin and they knew about making it in the 7th century BCE Did they? All the 7th century Latin sources I can think of are insanely obscurely expressed votive artifacts that possibly say “you will be accursed if a cow shits here” or something
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Dec 1, 2023 19:53
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skasion posted:Did they? All the 7th century Latin sources I can think of are insanely obscurely expressed votive artifacts that possibly say “you will be accursed if a cow shits here” or something That is a good point. I was wrong, it appears the first mention of soap in a Roman source is Pliny the Elder and he claims it as a Gallic invention. Soap's old enough I think it's reasonable to assume that is not actually the first time a Roman was aware of it, but evidence-wise that's as far back as you can go.
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Dec 1, 2023 20:00
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Fuschia tude posted:It's interesting to note that his son was the famous pharaoh "Tut-ankh-amun", the Living Image of Amun, originally named "Tut-ankh-aten". After the old man ate it (followed by the very brief reigns of his brother and widow), he personally led the restoration of the traditional religion (or, considering he took the throne at age nine, was forced to for political reasons, to quell the societal unrest of the Atenist period), epitomized in his and his wife's own renaming. As someone who recently binge-listened to the Amarna period episodes of the History of Egypt podcast, I have to point out that we don't actually know who Smenkhkare and Neferneferuaten really were, and if/when they actually ruled. That's all due to those later generations who tried really hard to wipe out their traces.
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Dec 1, 2023 20:26
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zoux posted:If only they had known they are the same thing... lmao it was definitely my pleasure, I was a little embarrassed about how lengthy it ended up being while reading it back over until I realized You know what, they would not have asked were they not at least amenable to the idea of me regurgitating some kind of thing like this in response  I am really glad everyone liked it lol, it was exciting for me to realize I did actually have a relevant answer for you and was able to provide information to back it up even! Thank you again for inquiring!
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Dec 1, 2023 20:55
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Fuschia tude posted:It's interesting to note that his son was the famous pharaoh "Tut-ankh-amun", the Living Image of Amun, originally named "Tut-ankh-aten". After the old man ate it (followed by the very brief reigns of his brother and widow), he personally led the restoration of the traditional religion (or, considering he took the throne at age nine, was forced to for political reasons, to quell the societal unrest of the Atenist period), epitomized in his and his wife's own renaming. Zopotantor posted:As someone who recently binge-listened to the Amarna period episodes of the History of Egypt podcast, I have to point out that we don't actually know who Smenkhkare and Neferneferuaten really were, and if/when they actually ruled. That's all due to those later generations who tried really hard to wipe out their traces.  Did your podcast have any interesting bits about his death, Zopotantor? When writing my tl;dr there I realized I did not actually know how Akhenaten died, and then when I Googled to edify myself I discovered that's because nobody knows how Akhenaten died!  But, I did notice Egypt was being assailed by plagues right around that time, apparently, and it could have been my imagination running with me but "punishing people with plagues" has always been a thing people associate with pissed off Gods. It was a man named Horemheb that is credited with a lot of the restoration of traditional religion while Tutankhamen was king, but it seems like everyone official was pretty unified in the effort. If the country was being smote by plagues, and everyone was positive it was because they had been forced to worship the wrong God for the last twenty years, that probably accounts for a lot of the intensity and dedication behind the Atenism damnatio. Leaving up all the monuments to Aten wasn't just conceptually incorrect and blasphemous, it was also actively blighting them, just look around at this!!!edit: Wikipedia posted:The collapse of Atenism began during Akhenaten's late reign when a major plague spread across the ancient Near East. This pandemic appears to have claimed the lives of numerous royal family members and high-ranking officials, possibly contributing to the decline of Akhenaten's government. wait 
LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 1, 2023 |
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Dec 1, 2023 21:13
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:
https://www.egyptianhistorypodcast.com/134-the-death-of-akhenaten
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Dec 1, 2023 22:24
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Thank you for the link! I actually have a very strong preference for obtaining information in non-podcast form, I have a difficult time processing and retaining information in them compared to written information. But there is not a whole lot of written information I have been able to find addressing the items that episode description mentions so I may give it a try this weekend! 
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Dec 2, 2023 12:38
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Thank you for the link! I actually have a very strong preference for obtaining information in non-podcast form, I have a difficult time processing and retaining information in them compared to written information. But there is not a whole lot of written information I have been able to find addressing the items that episode description mentions so I may give it a try this weekend! If you want something in written form about the death of Akhenaten, the book Amarna Sunset by Aidan Dodson has a lot about that. It's also available online through the Internet Archive: https://ia800701.us.archive.org/7/items/AmarnaSunset/Amarna%20Sunset.pdf
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Dec 2, 2023 21:35
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Ahh! Bless you, thank you so much!!!
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Dec 2, 2023 22:10
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Just watch the Opera
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Dec 2, 2023 22:16
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Gaius Marius posted:Just watch the Opera https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSn_UAquOfw I made the trip to NYC last spring to see it in person, it was worth every penny and every moment.
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Dec 2, 2023 22:21
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It’s maybe the best opera ever
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Dec 3, 2023 00:44
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euphronius posted:It’s maybe the best opera ever but this exists
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Dec 3, 2023 00:53
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I actually have a very strong preference for obtaining information in non-podcast form, New thread title please.
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Dec 3, 2023 01:09
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Thank you for the link! I actually have a very strong preference for obtaining information in non-podcast form, I have a difficult time processing and retaining information in them compared to written information. But there is not a whole lot of written information I have been able to find addressing the items that episode description mentions so I may give it a try this weekend! This works pretty well for transcription: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SQV-B83tPU
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Dec 3, 2023 01:57
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I actually have a very strong preference for obtaining information in non-podcast form, I have a difficult time processing and retaining information in them compared to written information. Okay Homer 
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Dec 3, 2023 02:03
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Gonna go out on a limb and say Homer probably wasn't a fan of writing
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Dec 3, 2023 02:07
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I thought the modern scholarship about Homer was that he codified and wrote down an existing oral tradition of poetry to create the Iliad and Odyssey, or that he wasn't actually a person but rather an attribution attached to the codification of said poems. If I've gotten it wrong, that ruins my joke 
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Dec 3, 2023 02:46
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fwiw it also reminded me of a friendly "OK boomer" and I laughed about that. a good joke ps thank you ulmont! LITERALLY A BIRD fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 03:12
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Kylaer posted:I thought the modern scholarship about Homer was that he codified and wrote down an existing oral tradition of poetry to create the Iliad and Odyssey, or that he wasn't actually a person but rather an attribution attached to the codification of said poems. If I've gotten it wrong, that ruins my joke
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Dec 3, 2023 03:17
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Homer was the possibly-legendary founder and ancestor of a historical group of rhapsodes called the Homeridae. The name could mean “sons of Homer” or, if you don’t take a name as a proper noun, “sons of the hostages”. They were real and they were probably important in the transmission of the poems, and certainly in their traditional attribution. They could have even been correct that a blind guy called Omeros composed at least some of the poetry we associate with the name today. But antique sources usually do not claim that Homer personally wrote down his poems, and it is rarely even claimed that they were written down from his personal recitation. The canonical writing-down of the Homeric epics was believed in antiquity to have been done centuries after Homer’s time, for Pisistratus, the 6th-century tyrant of Athens. This may be true. A couple generations ago some scholars argued there was no Iliad or Odyssey as such before Pisistratus’ edition, just a broad overlapping tradition of oral rhapsodies out of which something like our Homer was forged. The issue is that it’s hard to confirm that Pisistratus’ Homer existed, or that it was the same as our received text if it did. The 2nd-century Alexandrian scholar Aristarchus produced a standard text of Iliad and Odyssey which is the definite source of all modern recensions. Podcasters should begin to use meter and epithet to establish mnemonic dominance over their podcasting competition
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Dec 3, 2023 03:25
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Well there definitely was a legend. There were some ancient Greeks that distrusted the value of writing compared to just remembering and memorizing the old epic poems, but for some reason there's not really a whole lot we know directly about their perspective.
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Dec 3, 2023 06:10
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Sons of Homer gives me oddly Metal Gear vibes.
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Dec 3, 2023 07:47
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skasion posted:Podcasters should begin to use meter and epithet to establish mnemonic dominance over their podcasting competition
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Dec 3, 2023 12:18
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skasion posted:
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Dec 3, 2023 14:01
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skasion posted:
Much appreciated for the detailed reply. This part is what I had the false belief that Homer was involved in, whoops. Ghost Leviathan posted:Sons of Homer gives me oddly Metal Gear vibes. 
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Dec 3, 2023 14:24
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Metal... gear? On that note, I find it pretty fun that Archimedes is pretty much one of the first examples of a super-scientist in ancient storytelling. Not even necessarily treated as unsympathetic, with things like being imprisoned in a labyrinth he designed countered by him finding his way out easily because he already knows the layout, and developing the wings to escape which work for him but not for Icarus because of logical (for the story) physical flaws. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 14:32
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daedalus archimedes was a real dude
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Dec 3, 2023 14:46
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bob dobbs is dead posted:daedalus A dude that got screwed
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Dec 3, 2023 15:35
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I had a math teacher in high school who used to say the only impact the Romans had on mathematics was killing Archimedes.
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Dec 3, 2023 16:19
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and to this day, if you visit his homeland of big greek place, you can stand in the ruins of eureeka’s castle and contemplate all of the incredible bathing he did
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Dec 3, 2023 16:23
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bob dobbs is dead posted:daedalus Have you ever seen them both in a room at the same time?
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Dec 3, 2023 23:45
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Daedalus, gently caress. Though wasn't Archimedes the one who supposedly made the Bond villain superweapon with the bronze mirror?
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Dec 4, 2023 03:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Daedalus, gently caress. Though wasn't Archimedes the one who supposedly made the Bond villain superweapon with the bronze mirror? And a crane that loving lifted whole ships out the loving water. The mirror thing probably wasn't real though.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:59
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I remember reading an article about the ship-killer crane and the conclusion that writer came to was that it wasn't plausible to build a crane that could lift a whole ship clear of the water, but it was absolutely possible to tip a ship far enough that the opposite side would go underwater and sink it, given the way Greek warships were built. So the crane was probably a real thing that got exaggerated, rather than a fantasy like the mirror heat ray.
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Dec 4, 2023 12:18
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zoux posted:I don't know if this is the case with that specific era, but there are a lot of art styles that we look at now as "bad" but there were clear cultural contexts and reasons for these depictions. Like new kingdom Egyptian art, it looks rudimentary and primitive, but ancient Egyptians had a rigid set of rules about proportions and aspective view. Then you look at the Amarna style created during and right after Akhenaten's reign and it's more stylized and dynamic and, to the modern eye, just looks better. But art criticism is eternal and all that art (and Akhenaten's reign) got damnato memoriaed by subsequent pharaohs almost immediately after he died. (This post has not been fact checked by LaB who knows about all this stuff way better than me and would love to see her elaborate on the transition into and back from the Amarna style, and Egyptian artistic conventions in general) There's a big difference between especially late Roman art (look at some of those Egyptian mummies, or something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_mosaic#/media/File:05-Mosaico_del_Oecus._Aquiles_en_Skyros_alta.jpg ) and mediaeval art where the former looks a lot more natural to us, with normal looking perspective etc (and more similar to something you'd see in the Renaissance). That's not because they all forgot how to paint in the middle ages though, it was very much a stylistic thing. Edit: these mummies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits - not like King Tut. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 12:32
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The mythbusters set up the mirror test and found it plausible, though.
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Dec 4, 2023 14:44
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Mr. Nice! posted:The mythbusters set up the mirror test and found it plausible, though. Rigging from ancient ships was full of pretty flammable material. Wouldn’t take terribly much set it on fire.
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Dec 4, 2023 15:10
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feedmegin posted:There's a big difference between especially late Roman art (look at some of those Egyptian mummies, or something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_mosaic#/media/File:05-Mosaico_del_Oecus._Aquiles_en_Skyros_alta.jpg ) and mediaeval art where the former looks a lot more natural to us, with normal looking perspective etc (and more similar to something you'd see in the Renaissance). That's not because they all forgot how to paint in the middle ages though, it was very much a stylistic thing. Lol I was about to reply with a link to the Fayum mummy portraits (because I didn't know that's what those particular portraits were called) because that was one of my watershed "oh the people in the past weren't stupid troglodytes" realizations. I mean really the output of classical sculptors should put lie to the belief that the ancient classic artists were less skilled than today. Re: Homer Much like the once revered name of Nimrod took on a different connotation thanks to Bugs Bunny, when did Homer go from "famous poet" to "dipshit"? Before the Simpsons right, it's always been considered a hick name, as far as I can remember
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Dec 4, 2023 17:02
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