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What a loving great episode. Midnight was one of the episodes that my fiancee used to get me into Who a while back, and it's one of my favorite episodes. This felt like Midnight with a modern budget where you actually get to see the horror and not just have to imagine it. After someone earlier upthread compared the not-things to AI, I can't help but wonder if that was an intentional jab or not. Very uncanny valley stuff. The explosion scene near the end genuinely had me kinda freaked out, with how not-thing Donna had managed to 99.9% replicate real Donna and the only way 14 could tell was because something about her arm or wrist or whatever was imperceptibly off. It really drove home the mavity of the situation, how these just aren't goofy clones, but a real threat to the universe. Seeing Wilf at the end was heartwrenching too, not just because he's a great character and because Cribbins has passed, but because he's a character the Doctor good and truly loves and seeing his face light up like that was really nice  God I love this return to RTD Who. Framboise fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 15:43
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Anals of History posted:Did anyone else have trouble hearing what was being said during the episode? Partner said he could only hear about 10% of what was said during the episode. I had a couple of points where things said weren't clear but I chalked that up to two people with accents talking very quickly. This has been a thing ever since the show came back. This clip is from 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qzy2hVJC5A
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Dec 3, 2023 15:45
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It's a general problem with TV these days that they don't mix for people who are just using their built in speakers or basic sound system anymore, they tend to design things around high end headphones or professionally set up 7.1 sound systems.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 15:51
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That's a great writeup, thanks. Particularly liked the paragraphs about "object permanence" and the callback to Nine's recorded message in Parting of the Ways.
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Dec 3, 2023 16:08
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MikeJF posted:It's a general problem with TV these days that they don't mix for people who are just using their built in speakers or basic sound system anymore, they tend to design things around high end headphones or professionally set up 7.1 sound systems. It is fairly widespread but not universal, so definitely a problem with individual people who do the mixes. I have to use subtitles on Who, but no other modern BBC shows. On Amazon I have no issue with The Boys but Wheel Of Time was terrible. Interestingly on WoT they had 3 separate audio mixes in the language options offering to boost the dialogue track.
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Dec 3, 2023 16:36
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Yeah, there's a weird trend in the last decade+ of cinematographers and sound editors sort of looking down on traditional TV as a medium. They shoot and mix for darkened rooms on giant 4K displays or projectors, with 7.1 systems. It actually makes them seem kind of limited and bad at their jobs if they can't adapt to how the audience is going to experience the piece and achieve their goals within that brief.
Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 16:40
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Everything I watch is on a decent 5.1 setup and I had a hard time hearing stuff. But I figured it’s cause I’m old and don’t speak “British”.
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Dec 3, 2023 16:46
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Gaz-L posted:Yeah, there's a weird trend in the last decade+ of cinematographers and sound editors sort of looking down on traditional TV as a medium. They shoot and mix for darkened rooms on giant 4K displays or projectors, with 7.1 systems. It actually makes them seem kind of limited and bad at their jobs if they can't adapt to how the audience is going to experience the piece and achieve their goals within that brief. Is that why everything is so loving dark on TV? Also, I do like the high saturation of color RTD vs. Chinball everything is muted at night color pallet.
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Dec 3, 2023 17:10
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jackhunter64 posted:This has been a thing ever since the show came back. This clip is from 2008: Lmao my first thought here and anytime someone makes thos complaint is "how do you miss something when there are subtitles?" Then I remember some people have them off, presumably because they enjoy missing dialogue -- which makes it very confusing why they've gone and complained about the situation they went out of their way to make happen.
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Dec 3, 2023 17:37
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One observation or linkage I've not seen yet: the Love and Monsters connection. That RTD episode was about fannish social groupings, but I think Wild Blue Yonder is in part about fannish caricature and hate of the object of their fannishness. (That makes it an apt 60th celebration, too.) The episode gives us actual caricature's of the Doctor and Donna (who, at times, behave like a caricature of the character), in ways that can intersect with the sorts of actual caricatures toxic fandom can produce. My favorite is the episode's sly deployment of the classic (if rarely used) companion twisting her leg, but what we're getting is an attempt to represent the characters and show in distorted ways, driven by emotions of hatred and a desire for combat and cruelty. I know the "play" aspect is pointing towards the next episode, but it also suggests that these not-beings are trolls, playfully cruel instead of being driven by clear trauma or need. They don't have to eat to survive; they're consumers, and their pleasure in consumption has nothing to do with taste and everything to do with generating fear. Notice the way the show plays with the meta-considerations of Who fandom: the "bad edits" fairly early on that can conceal the deliberate trick that's being played, the "continuity error" with the Doctor's tie that makes much more sense in this cinematic space than it would in real life, the ways in which the episode encourages the kind of "trivia quizzing" to prove genuineness and demonstrates that the hateful duplicates are more concerned about fitting all the pieces together than the real characters. The Doctor asserts that a superstition about salt is real (Image of the Fendahl, anyone?) and it's not clear whether that's true or he's making it up. The story takes place in a huge ship that keeps changing its interior for no explicable reason; Donna brings up the sorts of meta-questions viewers ask in mentioning Venom the movie and the question of mass; the barrage of questions thrown the Doctor's way when he's trying not to think is like the kinds of questions fans might throw at an episode that doesn't answer them to show it's bad. The Doctor's not-really-solution is even "try not to think about it!" And I believe there's a subtle logic connecting these elements and the "slow" aspect at the center of the story. These symbolic representations generated out of hate can't make sense when things change slowly. No wonder they get so upset at the obvious and "fast" changes (the Doctor's a woman; the Doctor's not white), because they can't see how the show has been slowly changing itself all along. The "taking the wrong Donna" bit at the end, I think, provides a contrast to this sort of cynical, click-baiting hate-fandom. The Doctor asks the Donnas a question and grabs the one we also think is the right one, but then the show stays with the other Donna. Is she the real one? Is this the fake but so duplicating the real one she's traumatized at being left behind? Switch to the TARDIS, where Tate skillfully misplays Donna's reaction to being rescued: not relief, but triumph. We see it: we see the inconsistency and figure it out, but the Doctor isn't looking. We're hoping that he does what he does. And when he rescues the real Donna, he doesn't get tipped off by the clear indicator the show gives us, but because of a tiny inconsistency between that Donna and the real one. Set aside that he doesn't just remember how Donna likes her coffee, he knows the precise length of her arms, and notice instead that RTD isn't condemning fans who obsess over tiny continuity problems or inconsistencies within episodes: he's implying that when they're driven out of love and a desire to save, they're vital to fandom because that's how to tell the difference between the hate-filled fan and the loving fan. The not-things want to know all about the Doctor and Donna, but they hate them, too. And cut to a scene of Wilf and Tennent's Doctor, loving fans of one another.
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Dec 3, 2023 18:37
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That's a really convincing analysis, actually.
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Dec 3, 2023 19:00
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Dongicus posted:i would recommend you dont. its really boring/bad lol. not even in a fun way. LOL that the Chibnall era is basically the RTD2's era of the Time War, a weird thing where lots of backstory stuff happened but the default assumption is that the audience didn't see any of it...
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Dec 3, 2023 19:03
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Deformed Church posted:Weird that no-one's ever been past the edge of space until the horse got there by accident, I feel like that would be a pretty early trip to make for research/curiosity/just to say you've done it reasons. To be fair, the Flux probably made the edge much closer than it used to be...
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Dec 3, 2023 19:05
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The loving scale of the set is insane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQkN0qtImcg
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Dec 3, 2023 19:25
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 https://www.instagram.com/p/C0XS8XNtlDP RTD posted:Farewell, old soldier. That’s goodnight and goodbye to our beloved Bernard. Wilf is mentioned in dispatches next week, all safe and sound, don’t worry, but that’s the only scene Bernard was able to film. We had a wonderful time! We’d never lost touch, in all these years, so I phoned him up and asked him to come back. He sniffed and said, ‘Let me see the script.’😂 We had a wonderful readthrough with 120 people at which he was adored by one and all. A lovely dinner in Cardiff where he regaled us with tales galore, twinkling as ever. Then the shoot in Camden - you can see in Unleashed and read in next week’s DWM how much he enjoyed that. And then… we had a little more written, but it wasn’t to be; at 93 years old, the old soldier had given us his best, and stepped away. Night, Bernard, and thank you. I love you.♥️
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Dec 3, 2023 20:03
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Infinitum posted:The loving scale of the set is insane It would be crazy if Ncuti doesn't inherit this version of the TARDIS considering the sheer level of size and detail in it's design. 
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Dec 3, 2023 20:26
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AndyElusive posted:It would be crazy if Ncuti doesn't inherit this version of the TARDIS considering the sheer level of size and detail in it's design. It looks like he is, just they're gonna add some props to the central area.
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Dec 3, 2023 20:45
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Narsham posted:Analysis That's an interesting analysis that makes a lot of nice sense. And on a less meaningful tangent, what is your go-to for not thinking? During the episode I was thinking they should just imagine and rotate the spherical cow. Technically still thinking, but less thinking than trying to just not think at all at a time like that. I had to rewind the scene because I was spinning the cow too much.
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Dec 3, 2023 20:48
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Gaz-L posted:It looks like he is, just they're gonna add some props to the central area. Oooooh yeah, I just saw. He gets a jukebox!
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Dec 3, 2023 21:02
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Since they've got so much space they should just pile up souvenirs from his various adventures over time.
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Dec 3, 2023 21:11
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MikeJF posted:Since they've got so much space they should just pile up souvenirs from his various adventures over time. *The souvenirs are companions and they’ve been absentmindedly trapped there for so long that the ever increasing population forms a small town with shops and a functioning government inside the Tardis.
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Dec 3, 2023 21:18
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I loved the Doctor's quiet musing about a civilization rising and falling around the TARDIS as he pondered what would happen if it never came back.
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Dec 3, 2023 21:38
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Jerusalem posted:I loved the Doctor's quiet musing about a civilization rising and falling around the TARDIS as he pondered what would happen if it never came back. Ya that was really good. It felt like an unaired episode or something. It just sounded really familiar and I could picture it and everything.
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Dec 3, 2023 21:41
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Jerusalem posted:I loved the Doctor's quiet musing about a civilization rising and falling around the TARDIS as he pondered what would happen if it never came back. I liked especially that the Doctor's been travelling with the Tardis for a thousand years plus and still doesn't know where it goes when the HADS kicks in.
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Dec 3, 2023 21:42
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I'm guessing it's actually really boring and it goes straight to the end of the episode. but that's because I'm also very boring
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Dec 3, 2023 21:47
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Voyager did an episode like that that was ok.
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Dec 3, 2023 22:17
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Going straight to the end of any Voyager episode improves the experience
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Dec 3, 2023 22:34
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AndyElusive posted:Ya that was really good. It felt like an unaired episode or something. It just sounded really familiar and I could picture it and everything. Since Doctor Who is sixty years old with way too much material, it is something that has been touched on a few times. Not the HADS specifically, but just the Tardis winds up someplace and sits there for a very long time as civilization goes on around it until the Doctor shows up to recover it.
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Dec 3, 2023 22:47
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Random Stranger posted:Since Doctor Who is sixty years old with way too much material, it is something that has been touched on a few times. Not the HADS specifically, but just the Tardis winds up someplace and sits there for a very long time as civilization goes on around it until the Doctor shows up to recover it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEuV_PGG9EU&t=95s
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Dec 3, 2023 22:54
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Khanstant posted:Lmao my first thought here and anytime someone makes thos complaint is "how do you miss something when there are subtitles?" Then I remember some people have them off, presumably because they enjoy missing dialogue -- which makes it very confusing why they've gone and complained about the situation they went out of their way to make happen. That's certainly a take, it's your fault you can't hear what people are saying subtitles are there as it's the way it's meant to be watched.
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Dec 3, 2023 23:14
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Go to satellite view and zoom in.
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Dec 3, 2023 23:51
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RTD: How much money did we get from Disney? Well let's just say we literally funded an actual Unified Intelligence Taskforce. I preferred it being United Nations Intelligence Taskforce 
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Dec 3, 2023 23:59
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SiKboy posted:Finally got to the episode after missing it live, and I have thoughts! I had the same thought, so I just said: That was a bard or somebody who's going to reference "mavity" and "apple falling" in some way and Sir Issac Newton will pick up on it
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Dec 4, 2023 00:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3s9rU1ZgLM
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Dec 4, 2023 01:06
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I do find it interesting that Murray's been threading I Am The Doctor in these episodes, seeing as that was Matt's theme, and it wasn't used for Capaldi or Jodie.
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Dec 4, 2023 01:13
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Damnit, now I've been spoiled for an upcoming episode! There will be a helipad in one of them!
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Dec 4, 2023 01:15
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Lmfao there's a mavity reference in last month's Torchwood.
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Dec 4, 2023 01:26
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Gaz-L posted:I do find it interesting that Murray's been threading I Am The Doctor in these episodes, seeing as that was Matt's theme, and it wasn't used for Capaldi or Jodie. Biased because Smith was my intro to the show, but it's the best theme.
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Dec 4, 2023 01:29
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That was an absolutely fabulous episode. Bordering on classic, had the ideas not already been explored a few times in the show. I don't want to complain about having new, great Doctor Who, but does anybody else feel kind of disappointed that for the 60th anniversary, we're just sort of... getting new, great Doctor Who? The last episode resolved the gross Donna issue — again, really, and properly this time. Twelve mind-wiping himself instead of Clara last time felt like a sort of resolution of that problem — and that was very nice, but it felt a little tacked onto a completely normal, though really great, episode of the show. There's still time. We've got one more special to go. But Day of the Doctor set a really high bar, and the precedent seemed to be that big anniversaries are for multi-doctor stories, and that's what I was expecting. But to wrap back around to a positive note, we're getting fantastic new episodes and that is certainly more important than lore stuff and gimmicks. But I wants me some lore stuff and gimmicks.
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Dec 4, 2023 01:31
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Open Source Idiom posted:Lmfao there's a mavity reference in last month's Torchwood. Jesus Christ, Rusty  I was so confused as to why this was posted at first but then 
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Dec 4, 2023 01:31
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