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I'm honestly kinda surprised that they haven't done a FAQ or index update for the divergent space marine chapters since the Codex came out. just saw it pointed out that removing jump pack assault basically turns blood angels into a RAW nightmare where half the index's units can no longer take leaders.
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Dec 4, 2023 02:40
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Cooked Auto posted:Finished the base for my tiny Shadowsword today. This looks great, especially the base!
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Dec 4, 2023 02:43
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Der Waffle Mous posted:just saw it pointed out that removing jump pack assault basically turns blood angels into a RAW nightmare where half the index's units can no longer take leaders. And Leaders that can only lead one unit that nobody takes. Captain Tycho is down to only being able to lead Tactical Marines and Dante can only lead Sanguinary Guard.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:03
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rantmo posted:And Leaders that can only lead one unit that nobody takes. Captain Tycho is down to only being able to lead Tactical Marines and Dante can only lead Sanguinary Guard. Dante can also lead Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs, which still show up on the app at any rate. But it definitely need a FAQ/update.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:26
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Huh, so they are. I was sure they'd been removed.
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Dec 4, 2023 03:36
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My first ever painted 40k mini next to my most recent.
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Dec 4, 2023 05:35
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Virtual Russian posted:Could I please get some feedback on the following list? If you’ve got a pair of Catachans in your list already, I’d suggest finding a way to fit in Iron Hand Straken. He’s very good value for only 55 points, since he’s a melee juggernaut and can provide two orders.
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Dec 4, 2023 05:51
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Virtual Russian posted:Is melee guard insane? catachans aren't insane but they're not there to kill things. they're a screen unit who scout out forward and pressure objectives early. they screen charges and die/flee so whoever charged is left twisting in the wind. iron hand straken is good for a laugh but his most important quality is two cheap orders and he gives away assassinate (which is an IG problem in general). don't run catachans in 20s, because you want the freedom to move them separately. don't put non-straken characters in them because then you lose the scout move, which is the reason to take them over any other infantry squad. if you want a guard unit that fights in melee, look at bullgryn, rough riders, death riders, or ogryn, pretty much in that order. eversor assassins are also good objective sitters who can serve as a melee missile. (callidus are also good but more sit and less melee.) catachans can't really offer value for points comparable to any of these units, and even if you go all out on blinging them up with attachments, they will bounce off any comparably priced unit then get murdered by any competent melee unit.
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Dec 4, 2023 07:59
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rantmo posted:And Leaders that can only lead one unit that nobody takes. Captain Tycho is down to only being able to lead Tactical Marines and Dante can only lead Sanguinary Guard. Yeah theres a separate, deeper problem from release where the index has a bunch of melee beatstick characters who can mostly only lead squads who don't want to be anywhere near melee.
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Dec 4, 2023 08:22
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Cease to Hope posted:catachans aren't insane but they're not there to kill things. they're a screen unit who scout out forward and pressure objectives early. they screen charges and die/flee so whoever charged is left twisting in the wind. iron hand straken is good for a laugh but his most important quality is two cheap orders and he gives away assassinate (which is an IG problem in general). Catachans can actually be very useful in 20 man groups if you bolt Iron Hand Straken to them and use them to overwhelm through sheer numbers, Iron Hand gives the unit Lethal Hits in melee and if you add a preacher, they'll get Sustain 1 too, wonderful way to get rid of a big expensive scary thing, combined it with a Hades Breaching Drill and you can delete anything big enough through sheer good old fashioned failed saves. Problem with melee Guard is that all the Riders are basically "charge and die" and the Bullgryns are more for just staying on Objectives for ages.
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Dec 4, 2023 09:36
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Yeah theres a separate, deeper problem from release where the index has a bunch of melee beatstick characters who can mostly only lead squads who don't want to be anywhere near melee. Mephiston really needs better options.
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Dec 4, 2023 13:38
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My question about the guard is, do you need to screen artillery parked in the rear, and if so, with what? edit: closer to topic. My idea of a melee guard, is a tank spearhead followed by Kasrkin. As in shoot things from very close range. Lostconfused fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 14:01
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Lostconfused posted:My question about the guard is, do you need to screen artillery parked in the rear, and if so, with what? The only real threat to artillery is deep strikes, at the stage that hostiles would have walked all the way to the rear, you have other problems to deal with and a skilled opponent will often prioritize other targets than your artillery, your tanks are much bigger danger to them. You can do some screening against deep strike with an infantry squad, perhaps even with a command squad and some regimental advisers for that wonderful 12 inch no-deep strike aura, but most of the time just hide them behind terrain. As your your idea of a tank spearheads, sure, Demolishers' main gun is 24 inches, but even then, you should keep them at that range, you can shot out of melee in this edition, but it does cost you -1 to hit, as for Kasrkin, they aren't suited for close-range, you'd have to use Bullgryns for that job, Kasrkin will die horribly in melee, just like all of the infantry.
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Dec 4, 2023 14:42
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Fine, fine, no flamers or meltaguns on Kasrkin, only volley and plasma guns.
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Dec 4, 2023 14:54
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Mordian Glory put together some videos featuring Catachans as part of infantry-heavy lists, recently. They're a fun background watch. The overall strategy was to have Catachans and Straken rush the central objectives while Kriegsmen followed up with lots of plasma. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMkssPSfjYY
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Dec 4, 2023 14:58
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I've been watching Mordian Glory videos myself and reading these posts with interest, because I've also been trying to see how I might play, if not a melee army, than at least a more aggressive army than the "artillery park". Is there nothing like a veteran squad filled with special weapons any more? Is that a roll filled by Kasrkin? I'm looking for things that can be dangerous when moved up the board in a Chimera. Sentinels seem like a perfect unit for how I'd like to play (more mechanised, more aggressive, and as not terrible in melee as guard can be). I just wish ot didn't cost fifty bucks for a vehicle you run in squadrons of three.
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Dec 4, 2023 16:03
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Cease to Hope posted:catachans aren't insane but they're not there to kill things. they're a screen unit who scout out forward and pressure objectives early. they screen charges and die/flee so whoever charged is left twisting in the wind. iron hand straken is good for a laugh but his most important quality is two cheap orders and he gives away assassinate (which is an IG problem in general). Back to the drawing board, maybe. I didn't realize that attaching leaders without scout would cancel scout. I do think 20 Catachans on the charge with a preacher and command squad are going to do some serious damage in melee. They won't be killing monsters/tanks, but there are up to 24 S4 AP -1 attacks, plus 6 power weapon attacks, all with sustained hits. Losing scout hurts though for sure, but that is a lot of dice. Switching to another datasheet would get me more power weapons, but S3 is not S4, and the AP is even more useful. I do realize there are tons of abhumans and whatnot I could run, but I'm really looking for non-artillery park ways to run my Vostroyans. I figured large bayonet charges would be a fun, lore-friendly way to play that might still have some competitive edge. RagnarokZ posted:Catachans can actually be very useful in 20 man groups if you bolt Iron Hand Straken to them and use them to overwhelm through sheer numbers, Iron Hand gives the unit Lethal Hits in melee and if you add a preacher, they'll get Sustain 1 too, wonderful way to get rid of a big expensive scary thing, combined it with a Hades Breaching Drill and you can delete anything big enough through sheer good old fashioned failed saves. Riders have Regiment though, so I can bring them back, at a cost.
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Dec 4, 2023 16:15
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Cease to Hope posted:catachans aren't insane but they're not there to kill things. they're a screen unit who scout out forward and pressure objectives early. they screen charges and die/flee so whoever charged is left twisting in the wind. iron hand straken is good for a laugh but his most important quality is two cheap orders and he gives away assassinate (which is an IG problem in general). There was a beautiful moment in late 9th prior to the new codex when someone realized that Catachans were actually kind of insane in melee for their point cost, and like 200 Catachans with a bunch of priests and a little fire support was a list that won some big tournaments. Just a tide of muscle men charging the eldrich horrors of the universe and punching them right in their dumb face
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Dec 4, 2023 16:40
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Virtual Russian posted:I do realize there are tons of abhumans and whatnot I could run, but I'm really looking for non-artillery park ways to run my Vostroyans. I figured large bayonet charges would be a fun, lore-friendly way to play that might still have some competitive edge. This is just the problem with the guard’s index in general, it really only works if your list is the lord solar’s artillery park. I’ve played a few games with my mechanised list now and I’ve just come to accept functionally not having a detachment ability or useful stratagems.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:13
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Jack B Nimble posted:I've been watching Mordian Glory videos myself and reading these posts with interest, because I've also been trying to see how I might play, if not a melee army, than at least a more aggressive army than the "artillery park". Guard is all about combos! You can be aggressive as you like with your units that have high volume shooting but they'll only be effective if you pair them with some strat and ability combinations. Having a scout sentinel spot an enemy unit that you want to delete, and then play the "Fields of Fire" strat on it, and then use an Exterminator Leman Russ on it. Suddenly - everything else that shoots it will gain RR1s, and +2 -AP against it.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:38
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ro5s posted:This is just the problem with the guard’s index in general, it really only works if your list is the lord solar’s artillery park. I’ve played a few games with my mechanised list now and I’ve just come to accept functionally not having a detachment ability or useful stratagems. I also normally run mechanized. Born Soldiers really really wants you to just sit still and gun. It doesn't really win games, nor is it particularly exciting to play, and seems less fun still to play against. I'm searching for a way to play exciting games that is a little outside the box.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:40
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Jack B Nimble posted:Is there nothing like a veteran squad filled with special weapons any more? Is that a roll filled by Kasrkin? I'm looking for things that can be dangerous when moved up the board in a Chimera. Kasrkin are probably what you're looking for. People have also been getting some good work done by Gaunt's Ghosts and Tempestus Scions - they're good for that sort of action monkey / deep strike / special ops sort of usage..
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Dec 4, 2023 17:53
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Just got an email from GW customer services. Hello, We’re getting in touch today to apologise for the delay in dispatching your order. Your Leagues of Votann: Defenders of the Ancestors Battleforce was lost in Warp Transit - as there was only a limited number of these boxed sets, we will arrange more reinforcements for you by sending you the separate products that were contained in it. You can rest assured that your order is secure and you will receive another email from us by Thursday at the latest, with your new order number. Kind regards, The Warhammer Webstore Team I got my order in at 9.55am on the morning. 
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Dec 4, 2023 17:55
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IllustriousChen posted:Just got an email from GW customer services. be very quiet...do not raise the alarm... it just might be a christmas miracle from james workshop
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Dec 4, 2023 17:59
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Kaal posted:Kasrkin are probably what you're looking for. People have also been getting some good work done by Gaunt's Ghosts and Tempestus Scions - they're good for that sort of action monkey / deep strike / special ops sort of usage.. Yeah, I have an unassembled Veteran Guardsman kill team and I was going to do some converting to run Gaunt's Ghosts, they seem like one of the more fun units you can run. Speaking of conversions, does anyone have a link to someone converting the Lord Solar to be in some sort of vehicle?
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Dec 4, 2023 17:59
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Jack B Nimble posted:Yeah, I have an unassembled Veteran Guardsman kill team and I was going to do some converting to run Gaunt's Ghosts, they seem like one of the more fun units you can run. His horse is mostly robot so I think that counts 
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Dec 4, 2023 18:35
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Lol wait a minute, Tank Commander's don't have line breaker and can't fire a blast weapon at units harassing them in engagement range?
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Dec 4, 2023 18:40
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Jack B Nimble posted:Speaking of conversions, does anyone have a link to someone converting the Lord Solar to be in some sort of vehicle? I've seen some good conversions for it on everything from a Sentinel or Death Rider to a jeep, motorbike, or hovercraft. I've even seen one on a carnifex. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/14s1xik/lord_colonel_dkok_solar_leontus_and_scout/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/158jplj/lord_solar_proxy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/16eh05d/finally_finished_my_lord_solar_proxy/ https://www.google.com/search?q=lor...1&client=safari The Lord Solar has to be in the running for the most converted / proxied unit of all time. It manages to be weird-looking and inappropriate for most armies, while also mechanically critical for all armies. It really contributes to the odd sensation that a 10th edition guard army is a cross-section of the entire imperium, rather than any particular regiment.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:45
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Jack B Nimble posted:Lol wait a minute, Tank Commander's don't have line breaker and can't fire a blast weapon at units harassing them in engagement range? Nope, I run a battlecannon commander hanging back to toss orders to my frontline demolishers.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:47
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Jack B Nimble posted:Yeah, I have an unassembled Veteran Guardsman kill team and I was going to do some converting to run Gaunt's Ghosts, they seem like one of the more fun units you can run. I used the quad bike from the Genestealer Attilan Jackals kit and a big "rock". The list I use to actually win sometimes is actually with just the Basilisk and nothing else and I just ignore the detachment rule, it's just not worth losing all that flexibility, movement is how you score secondaries and that's how Guard wins. I use an infantry line with a 20 Kriegers+Psyker+Marshal squad to get up and hold a point forever, they are obscenely survivable for their costs, then I back them up with several 20 squad infantry with lascannons, Lord Solar obviously in his own little command team for orders and CP, some tanks to provide heavy fire support and some other support staff. And then I slot in or out various stuff for the rest of the points, my favorite is 20 Catachans with Iron Hand and a Preacher, placed in reserves and then I use the Hades Breaching Drill to dump them at a big juicy target and slam my way through it with sheer overwhelming number of attacks. Then Gaunt's Ghosts to score secondaries and some Scions in deep strike. I've won non-tournament matches like this, artillery park is boring and really don't work that terribly well.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:48
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ro5s posted:Nope, I run a battlecannon commander hanging back to toss orders to my frontline demolishers. Are you keeping it within 6" or am I overlooking something important about extending range of the orders? Kaal posted:I've seen some good conversions for it on everything from a Sentinel or Death Rider to a jeep, motorbike, or hovercraft. I've even seen one on a carnifex. Oh awesome, putting a tank commander hatch on top of a Sentinel sounds feasible, thank you.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:49
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On the other hand looking at the miniatures GW selling and it's all cadians all the time. Then when building an army you can pick between them being Cadians or generic no-name guards that look exactly like cadians but have slightly different rules.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:50
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Jack B Nimble posted:Are you keeping it within 6" or am I overlooking something important about extending range of the orders? Tank Commander gets 12"
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Dec 4, 2023 18:52
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RagnarokZ posted:Catachans can actually be very useful in 20 man groups if you bolt Iron Hand Straken to them and use them to overwhelm through sheer numbers you're throwing good money after bad. even with straken (who is viable in a 10), 20 catachans plus a preacher cost as much or more than 10 rough riders, 10 death riders, or six ogryn, while contributing much less, especially after the first turn in melee. (six bullgryn also outperform them but cost a bit more.) 20 attacks at 4+ S4 AP-1 D1 (before Fix Bayonets) is just mediocre, even when you stack SH1 and LH on there. and it only lasts one round of combat. catachans only have one attack each and it kills them stone loving dead as a melee unit that is going to do real damage. Virtual Russian posted:I do realize there are tons of abhumans and whatnot I could run, but I'm really looking for non-artillery park ways to run my Vostroyans. I figured large bayonet charges would be a fun, lore-friendly way to play that might still have some competitive edge. using them as screens is legit! they're a bad melee unit but a very effective screening unit. scout is a strong rule and they're very efficiently priced for that job. throwing 20-30 guys up the board gives you a strong start on objectives and can wrong-foot aggressive enemies. sometimes a unit's job is just to die in the right place. also, they're cossacks. they definitely need a glorious cavalry countercharge, don't you think?
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Dec 4, 2023 19:18
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Lostconfused posted:On the other hand looking at the miniatures GW selling and it's all cadians all the time. Then when building an army you can pick between them being Cadians or generic no-name guards that look exactly like cadians but have slightly different rules. It occurred to me the other day that with the Whiteshield heads available in the Cadian upgrade sprue you could make Cadian Infantry Squads that are distinct from Shock Troops and still have it work.
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Dec 4, 2023 19:21
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I did order the Cadian upgrade sprue, along with some Kasrkins yesterday. All this theory crafting is a bit depressing though. It really sounds like you should play what's fun for you because there's no clear meta winner army list that everyone agrees on. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSI1tPDlrR0&t=450s laughing at the idea of Lord Solar being attached with a platoon command just so he can steal their radio. Lostconfused fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 19:44
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Yes. You should always follow 'the rule of cool' - meta comes and goes and balancing the game is always a work in progress.
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Dec 4, 2023 20:09
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Tangy Zizzle posted:meta comes and goes and balancing the game is always a work in progress. Speaking of which, are we due another munitorum points manual rebalance sometime soon?
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Dec 4, 2023 20:39
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I believe dataslate updates are meant to be every quarter so the next should be in January.
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Dec 4, 2023 20:43
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Tangy Zizzle posted:Yes. You should always follow 'the rule of cool' - meta comes and goes and balancing the game is always a work in progress. Pretty much this. I always build with aesthetics first, but I try to still build something that won't get tabled. Cease to Hope posted:
Definitely!
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Dec 4, 2023 21:05
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