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Frosted Flake posted:I'm just confused about the dissonance in living in a hyper militarized state that simultaneously can't provide basic military supplies. "Where does the money go? Why are we doing this? Why do we all make sacrifices if the state won't feed and clothe us?" Yeah Israel relies almost entirely on America providing the military needs. Israel alone can't fund their war, they need handouts to do it. They are spending currently like 6 billion dollars USD a month on this war?
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Dec 4, 2023 22:22
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soldiers can't help themselves but take corny group photos at every "enemy" landmark they come across. interesting insight into how they view the situation
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Dec 4, 2023 22:22
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Neurolimal posted:It's morbidly funny because you could tell from the rhetoric & propaganda that Ukraine was supposed to be the genesis of a new justification for the besieged US hegemony, a salespitch for war built out of anticolonialist humanitarian language... Don't forget the Neo Red Scare that it was all the fault of Stalin and his Tankies, a repeat of the Soviet Holocaust etc. Too bad that involved spending several years rehabilitating the Nazis until suddenly they have to pivot to hunting anti-Semites.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:24
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Lazy_Liberal posted:soldiers can't help themselves but take corny group photos at every "enemy" landmark they come across. interesting insight into how they view the situation felt cute, might genocide later
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Dec 4, 2023 22:25
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Lazy_Liberal posted:soldiers can't help themselves but take corny group photos at every "enemy" landmark they come across. interesting insight into how they view the situation This has come up in the WW3 thread and the Ukraine thread, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't take a soldier's phone away these days. We sent a girl home from tour for taking selfies in the CP, I think you'd have to let her skate now. The corny summer camp atmosphere and doing stuff to post on social media, that's where we're at. The IDF specifically, might as well produce slideshows of all of their group photos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz_NxOF7RB4
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Dec 4, 2023 22:26
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Frosted Flake posted:I'm just confused about the dissonance in living in a hyper militarized state that simultaneously can't provide basic military supplies. "Where does the money go? Why are we doing this? Why do we all make sacrifices if the state won't feed and clothe us?" WW2 Japan levels of logistical incompetence (we shouldn't forget Japan was also a corrupt capitalist kleptocracy), only the war is happening next door rather than across half the Pacific...
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Dec 4, 2023 22:27
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FlapYoJacks posted:Evil Hamas was using these terror fields to grow terror food for future Hamas terrorists. quote:In the towns of the latter peoples, however, which your God יהוה is giving you as a heritage, you shall not let a soul remain alive. in the genocide passage, this is forbidden. just so malevolent and anti-life and stupid that the bronze age refused this
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Dec 4, 2023 22:28
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Brain Candy posted:in the genocide passage, this is forbidden. just so malevolent and anti-life and stupid that the bronze age refused this Zionists don't believe in any god that doesn't accept the blood of men, women, and children as a tithe.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:33
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:the only RPG allowed in the IDF is MYFAROG lately they've also started allowing Yassin
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Dec 4, 2023 22:39
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Ringo Roadagain posted:https://twitter.com/yaelbt/status/1730249164141797742 lmfao
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Dec 4, 2023 22:45
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WoodrowSkillson posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo8GJ1B-7J4 All cans ftw. those vids of israeli moms cooking for soldiers way back wasn't charity, it was neccesity
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Dec 4, 2023 22:47
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Frosted Flake posted:Is there some sort of cultural dimension to everybody throwing together for a potluck for the army and donating them mittens and poo poo that I don't understand? It seems like absolutely birdbrained Mickey Mouse bullshit, but Israel is also an insanely militarized state with gigantic military spending so... clearly they shouldn't need to feed and clothe their own loving army. during the winter war, scandinavian women's associations would knit and people would do donation drives of backpacks, winter clothes etc for the finnish army that was a total mobilisation of reserves in the face of foreign aggression, though
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Dec 4, 2023 22:51
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uber_stoat posted:some antiwar Israeli grandma is quietly destroying the IDF with exlax doped cookies. It's the former hostage who talked about how nice the hamas boys were when she stayed with them. Frosted Flake posted:Is there some sort of cultural dimension to everybody throwing together for a potluck for the army and donating them mittens and poo poo that I don't understand? It seems like absolutely birdbrained Mickey Mouse bullshit, but Israel is also an insanely militarized state with gigantic military spending so... clearly they shouldn't need to feed and clothe their own loving army. Protestors in nyc disrupted a fundraiser for the IDF on friday nite. For some reason it's exactly like parent groups that fundraise for schools. Willa Rogers has issued a correction as of 22:55 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 22:53
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Frosted Flake posted:I'm just confused about the dissonance in living in a hyper militarized state that simultaneously can't provide basic military supplies. "Where does the money go? Why are we doing this? Why do we all make sacrifices if the state won't feed and clothe us?" First, the Israeli population is completely sold on the idea that we have nowhere else to go, that we're some little enclave of civilization surrounded on all sides by people who can't wait for the first chance to attack us, and in a greater sense, that the entire world is against us. It's a symptom of leftover paranoia from the 20th century wars mixed in with the general zionist brain rot that says Jews just have inherently hateable characteristics and therefore anti-semitism is just a universal, unavoidable fact of life that we will never ever be able to escape no matter what. Even western countries that diplomatically and materially support Israel aren't exempt from this paranoia. America is our big daddy that is essentially responsible for our existence but not only do Israelis love making GBS threads on Americans, a lot of Israelis, especially younger ones, have this stereotype that all Americans are foolish pro Palestine woke moralists or whatever the gently caress. When Israelis complain about anti Israel protests abroad, they very often specifically single out Americans like they're spearheading it, often coupled with clapbacks about how Americans should give their homes to a native if they care about colonialism so much and poo poo like that. Older Israeli zionazi psychos have a different yet similar stereotype of Americans as crybaby humanitarians who are holding us back from doing what is "necessary". I refer you back to that article posted much earlier in this thread where an Israeli writer claims that the IDF mustn't shy away from letting starvation and disease spread in Gaza and not fall for American humanitarian whining. That kind of thinking isn't an isolated phenomenon. Israel's dependence on America is like this sort of secret shame that hangs over all of us because nobody likes those guys. To quote someone I once talked and expressed reservations about the IDF's effectiveness to a long time ago: "You can't NOT trust them. You don't have that choice. Who else are you gonna trust?" Israelis thoroughly believe that we can't afford to be unpatriotic like that. They may criticize the military and bitch about how lovely it is in certain aspects, like how it has bad food or how they hate shaving, but Israelis are scared of just completely rebelling against the system and giving the military the middle finger. It's gonna take much more than supply shortages for this to happen. Lots of young people dodge the draft but it's not out of any ideological disagreement with the military or how it does things, they just don't give a gently caress about personally serving. You can see this reflected in how Israelis are currently talking about how Diaspora Jews are gonna start moving to Israel en masse soon because they feel unsafe. Yeah, because it's so much safer here, dude. But right, I forgot that a second holocaust is pretty much inevitable without Israel or whatever. Second, as has been thoroughly discussed, IDF service has been massively neutered down over the decades to keep people complacent. Sure, you might not get the treatment you feel you deserve but it's just a fairly undemanding detour on the road to your future career, who cares? Sancho Banana has issued a correction as of 23:09 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 22:55
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Frosted Flake posted:Is there some sort of cultural dimension to everybody throwing together for a potluck for the army and donating them mittens and poo poo that I don't understand? It seems like absolutely birdbrained Mickey Mouse bullshit, but Israel is also an insanely militarized state with gigantic military spending so... clearly they shouldn't need to feed and clothe their own loving army.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:55
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There was a big pro-Israel protest outside my office in Ottawa today. Apparently a bus company that was shipping up protesters from Toronto canceled 17 busses and the protesters are crying foul and antisemitism. We just had our first snowstorm of the season yesterday and today and the roads are hosed. Guess the weather is antisemitic now.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:55
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Frosted Flake posted:Because it's a discipline issue. Reading some of the stuff about the early Red Army getting its poo poo together was impressive. After enough officers went bolshevik (and enough commissars got enough military learning), the whites and expeditionary forces were like "how in the gently caress they are turning these ragged-as-gently caress illiterate peasants into competent soldiers this fast?" Turns out that the reds won the case for popular mobilization after the first "experimental" phase. Early draft had resistance, but as it progressed, people came back to the Red Army and more were in agreement. Proposing a cause isn't an immediate effect; once it gets there, though, people become willing to go above and beyond their best. Especially if that revolutionary cause is based on a collective principle for one-and-all. Fascism thinks that it has such a cause, but it is a complete perversion of that. Fascists understand discipline as an aesthetic; they think of their fantasies of the Spartans, without actually looking to things like "actually aristocrat soldiers are poo poo for reasons like drilling only when they felt like it". Hilariously, actual fascist discipline is very much like how they espouse themselves with fitness. They hold themselves to a certain standard of "elite", but should they be required to put the actual hard work of military discipline -- like digging -- they think that this poo poo is beneath them. What invariably happens is that you have this supposedly "elite" mfer that strolls around with a physique that certainly could deceive the unaware, but that eats poo poo completely when going against the guys who went for actual discipline.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:56
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Israel and old South Africa (to a lesser extent Rhodesia I guess) really make for an interesting study in contrasts. Obviously the mythology of Israel is far more core to the modern Western self-identity, but from a Realpolitik perspective, what was it that ultimately led the US to abandon SA? Was southern Africa considered that unimportant in terms of global positioning that a PR boost was more valuable? From the point of view of political, cultural and economic elites, Israel is "us" in a way that South African elites never where. And on the reverse side, there was enough of a history of civil rights for racial minorities in the US that doesn't exist in regards to Islamophobia and anti-Arab sentiment. Israeli elites were educated in the US or by Israeli professors educated in the US to an extent that was never true in South Africa. There are as many Israeli universities approved for title iv funding as there are Mexican ones (i.e., places where you can use your federal financial aid on) Israeli military is integrated into the American military industrial complex in a way that South Africa never was. F-16 is the most common jet fighter in the world and about 10% of all units are in the Israeli airforce. Israeli economy is integrated in a way that South African economy never was: every major tech giant has some investment in an Israeli start up. Odds are your major corporation has been using Israeli companies for security,etc. It's why I think the "oh, its AIPAC" explanations a bit simplistic. Yes, of course money in politics plays a big role. But for the vast majority of educational, economic and cultural elites, they've seen Israel as "us" in a way that they never saw even literal parts of the US like Puerto Rico or Guam. And then there is the other side. Civil rights leaders in the US like Jesse Jackson could portray Mandela as one of their own, and the struggle against apartheid as common as civil rights in the US. But 70 years of Islamophobia in the US means that no one is willing to take that step. There will be no organization in the US willing to take a chance and bring some PLO leader to speak, much less Hamas.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:58
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ContinuityNewTimes posted:It was a 2016 Ukrainian ration lol Yeah I thought he'd gotten got by one of those too but couldn't verify it when I went looking
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Dec 4, 2023 22:59
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Fascism thinks that it has such a cause, but it is a complete perversion of that. Fascists understand discipline as an aesthetic; they think of their fantasies of the Spartans, without actually looking to things like "actually aristocrat soldiers are poo poo for reasons like drilling only when they felt like it". Hilariously, actual fascist discipline is very much like how they espouse themselves with fitness. They hold themselves to a certain standard of "elite", but should they be required to put the actual hard work of military discipline -- like digging -- they think that this poo poo is beneath them. See also: IDF big beard oakley operators getting completely poo poo-housed by guys in track suits in a stand-up fight
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Dec 4, 2023 23:02
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uber_stoat posted:here's another IDF ration video. no wonder they have to scavenge rotten food to eat. it's better than the alternative.  The can don't even have pull tops. No wonder they're getting murked so much. Also, "self-burning tuna"  edit: I guess some of the cans have pull tops but most don't.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:03
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Fighting and winning wars is just a disgusting, ugly, dirty, unglamorous business of material and morale and the West (the US especially) threw all of its institutional reverence for those things in the bin and got in bed with the fascist war-making aesthetic first chance so now obviously its suck rear end at it
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Dec 4, 2023 23:06
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Sancho Banana posted:First, the Israeli population is completely sold on the idea that we have nowhere else to go, that we're some little enclave of civilization surrounded on all sides by people who can't wait for the first chance to attack us, and in a greater sense, that the entire world is against us. It's a symptom of leftover paranoia from the 20th century wars mixed in with the general zionist brain rot that says Jews just have inherently hateable characteristics and therefore anti-semitism is just a universal, unavoidable fact of life that we will never ever be able to escape no matter what. Even western countries that diplomatically and materially support Israel aren't exempt from this paranoia. America is our big daddy that is essentially responsible for our existence but not only do Israelis love making GBS threads on Americans, a lot of Israelis, especially younger ones, have this stereotype that all Americans are foolish pro Palestine woke moralists or whatever the gently caress. When Israelis complain about anti Israel protests abroad, they very often specifically single out Americans like they're spearheading it, often coupled with clapbacks about how Americans should give their homes to a native if they care about colonialism so much and poo poo like that. Older Israeli zionazi psychos have a different yet similar stereotype of Americans as crybaby humanitarians who are holding us back from doing what is "necessary". I refer you back to that article posted much earlier in this thread where an Israeli writer claims that the IDF mustn't shy away from letting starvation and disease spread in Gaza and not fall for American humanitarian whining. That kind of thinking isn't an isolated phenomenon. Israel's dependence on America is like this sort of secret shame that hangs over all of us because nobody likes those guys. it would be interesting to try and trace the degeneration of the IDF (and the ukrainian army pre-ideological hardening, and...) along with the advent of the neoliberal attitude. something like the fukuyama/frosted flake thesis would be extremely interesting to push in the appropriate venue, because it delivers a very wounding structural critique in the very heart of the imperial project - effectively, fukuyama is wrong in hoping for war to function as a disciplining/heroic event, because even war becomes suborned to the broader liberalising project and the state ceases to be able to perform it in a conscious, directed way.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:07
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we return, as ever, to the problem of motivating people to kill and die for a doctrine which holds that the highest good is individual enjoyment and the highest evil is individual suffering. only the insane and utterly depraved flourish in such an environment
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Dec 4, 2023 23:09
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Frosted Flake posted:This has come up in the WW3 thread and the Ukraine thread, but I'm pretty sure you couldn't take a soldier's phone away these days. We sent a girl home from tour for taking selfies in the CP, I think you'd have to let her skate now. The corny summer camp atmosphere and doing stuff to post on social media, that's where we're at. This is wild to me, because aside from the super obvious security issues, letting your soldiers post video of themselves with looted jewellery or bikes of the civs you've just massacred is an insane optics and disciplline thing to allow, even ignoring the obvious lack of humanity it shows, they should at least care about how loving unprofessional it looks.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:14
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:It's a way of coping with trauma after a sudden shock. This also happened in Ukraine with people making Molotov cocktails even though those wouldn't have had much use against Russian tanks and APCs. Also Americans giving blood after 9/11 which wasn't needed because people got pancaked in the WTC but it was a way for people to feel like they were "doing something" which is a form of processing. On topic, Yasser Arafat literally donated blood for wtc victims https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-sep-13-mn-45293-story.html I remember hearing this story (at the time) from somebody loudly complaining that they would rather die than have his blood. 
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Dec 4, 2023 23:14
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joepinetree posted:It's why I think the "oh, its AIPAC" explanations a bit simplistic. Yes, of course money in politics plays a big role. But for the vast majority of educational, economic and cultural elites, they've seen Israel as "us" in a way that they never saw even literal parts of the US like Puerto Rico or Guam.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:15
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Israeli liberal zoomers are stuck in this weird area where they feel no sense of personal responsibility to the military and will often slander it but are still in full support of basically everything the IDF does in wartime. They only really care about the IDF sucking in the sense that it affects them personally because they have to serve, they don't really care about the draft in a greater societal sense nor do they care about atrocities perpetuated by the IDF on the Palestinians.
Sancho Banana has issued a correction as of 23:17 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 23:15
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Sancho Banana posted:Israeli liberal zoomers are stuck in this weird area where they feel no sense of personal responsibility to the military and will often slander it but are still in full support of basically everything the IDF does in wartime. They only really care about the IDF sucking in the sense that it affects them personally because they have to serve, they don't really care about the draft in a greater societal sense nor do they care about atrocities perpetuated by the IDF on the Palestinians. I think that's common to a lot of countries, people don't really wanna critique their nation in wartime. The Israeli wheeze is to just act like you're eternally at war but do it against a controlled population who can't fight back oh whoops
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Dec 4, 2023 23:20
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I've watched enough tv to know that if there's no body there's no death.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:21
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Al-Saqr posted:oh so america is the fourth reich and satan combined got it cool cool cool "We haven't seen any evidence that Israel is targeting civilians....we also have no evidence they are targeting militants but we don't loving care because we're also a demon cracker nation that murders countless civilians globally with impunity."
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Dec 4, 2023 23:24
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:This is wild to me, because aside from the super obvious security issues, letting your soldiers post video of themselves with looted jewellery or bikes of the civs you've just massacred is an insane optics and disciplline thing to allow, even ignoring the obvious lack of humanity it shows, they should at least care about how loving unprofessional it looks. they don't give a gently caress, they literally film themselves making GBS threads in Palestinian houses like dogs.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:24
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Arc Hammer posted:There was a big pro-Israel protest outside my office in Ottawa today. Apparently a bus company that was shipping up protesters from Toronto canceled 17 busses and the protesters are crying foul and antisemitism. Draping yourself in a white flag and walking around unplowed streets during the first snowstorm of the year (ie the one where there are the most accidents as everyone forgets how to drive in the winter) is an interesting move.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:28
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Willa Rogers posted:
This is the army, this looks like a loving BBQ, loving insane to ever believe these people are in total fear for their lives
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Dec 4, 2023 23:29
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dead gay comedy forums posted:What invariably happens is that you have this supposedly "elite" mfer that strolls around with a physique that certainly could deceive the unaware, but that eats poo poo completely when going against the guys who went for actual discipline. I'm sure you've heard the stories of how steroids destroyed military fitness, because special forces guys were cracking 250lbs and required like 10 000 calories a day, would gas out walking up a gentle hill - while Afghans were malnourished by our standards but hadn't turned themselves into "high performance" machines that needed a steady drip of glutamine or they would shut down. It turns out anavar, creatine and god knows what else can make you huge, but then you have to provide those huge muscles with calories, amino acids, potassium and water. I was just reading parachute harnesses need to be designed because our gym rat operators now weigh as much in their shorts as they're supposed to in full battle rattle.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:33
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Sancho Banana posted:First, the Israeli population is completely sold on the idea that we have nowhere else to go, that we're some little enclave of civilization surrounded on all sides by people who can't wait for the first chance to attack us, and in a greater sense, that the entire world is against us. Thanks. That really sucks, hopefully nobody's giving you too hard of a time. I can't imagine going against that current.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:34
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The Oldest Man posted:Fighting and winning wars is just a disgusting, ugly, dirty, unglamorous business of material and morale and the West (the US especially) threw all of its institutional reverence for those things in the bin and got in bed with the fascist war-making aesthetic first chance so now obviously its suck rear end at it I wonder, have the Israelis through cultural osmosis adopted the totenkopf as a sigil of reactionary martial iconography to anything like the US has? That would be doubly ironic. It smell crazy over here with skulls on cop cars and poo poo. Radical 90s Wizard posted:This is wild to me, because aside from the super obvious security issues, letting your soldiers post video of themselves with looted jewellery or bikes of the civs you've just massacred is an insane optics and disciplline thing to allow, even ignoring the obvious lack of humanity it shows, they should at least care about how loving unprofessional it looks. yet another bit of propoganda from russia-ukraine (nafo types on that haha washing machine) that they are leaning into the pre-made bad guy niche on Owlbear Camus has issued a correction as of 23:37 on Dec 4, 2023 |
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Dec 4, 2023 23:35
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V. Illych L. posted:we return, as ever, to the problem of motivating people to kill and die for a doctrine which holds that the highest good is individual enjoyment and the highest evil is individual suffering. only the insane and utterly depraved flourish in such an environment
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Dec 4, 2023 23:36
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uber_stoat posted:they don't give a gently caress, they literally film themselves making GBS threads in Palestinian houses like dogs. This stuff is why I wont have any sympathy for Israel when their whole house of cards comes crashing down.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:36
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uber_stoat posted:here's another IDF ration video. no wonder they have to scavenge rotten food to eat. it's better than the alternative. These guys look like they loving suck
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Dec 4, 2023 23:38
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