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jjack229 posted:I was just talking about this with someone the other day. I grew up listening to him as my parents had a few of his albums in vinyl records. It was some of the funniest standup. I had meant to listen to them again as an adult, but once the info about him came out, there was no going back to that. This reminds me of some other poorly aging media I watched a Seth Rogan show that came out back in 2017 called Futureman. The plot of it is that a nerd plays a videogame, beats it, and then two guerilla fighters from the future time travel into his room because that game was sent back in time to find experienced soldiers to help them in their war against a tyrannical government that gene-mods people into becoming these super mutant type things that look and act just like regular humans (except for the supergenes obviously). In the future, The resistance lives in sewers eating rats and fighting against the government. Our nerd protagonist joins helps these guerillas try to kill the scientist that started it all. We later find out a girl the main guy works with is one of those super mutants sent back in time, she's nice and chill and explains the reason for the war: at one point a vaccine is developed which makes people immune to all diseases. The government requires everybody to take it and a subset of the population resists. She goes on to point out that the people are literally antivaxx isis. The protagonist sticks with the resistance though. There's more to it than that, but it's an aspect that's not really well developed and holy poo poo does it hit different post-COVID. Media not aging well within 2-3 years. Why the Cosby thing reminded me of it. There's a moment in the show where they travel to the 70s (or 80s or something) and go to the scientist's frat party to prevent him from making the vaccine. The protagonist is in a costume and gets mistaken for a member of the frat who does a very good Bill Cosby impression and someone asks him to do the Cosby Spanish Fly routine. The protagonist says something like "What? He joked about that???" Googling it afterward; yes Bill Cosby no loving poo poo had a short routine about it, preserved for posterity up on youtube. Not sure if it counts as aging poorly since there's not a context where it's not horrifically hosed up, but I guess it was popular at the time?
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Dec 4, 2023 17:00
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I had definitely heard it before a few years ago. I feel like I saw it on the Muppets or something in the 90s. It definitely isn't a "holiday classic" though. It felt like there was a new cover every couple years in the 00s. I don't know what caused the resurgence, specifically, but it felt like once that version with Dolly Parton and Rod Stewart came out, the floodgates opened
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Dec 4, 2023 17:20
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Aces High posted:It felt like there was a new cover every couple years in the 00s. I don't know what caused the resurgence, specifically, but it felt like once that version with Dolly Parton and Rod Stewart came out, the floodgates opened I think it might be Elf (2003).
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Dec 4, 2023 17:21
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It was definitely in the rotation in the 90s, but it was like a third-stringer at best and definitely got a lot more exposure in the 2000s and 2010s.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:46
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Elf was definitely the impetus, yeah. I sat through that movie like 10 times because in high school every teacher independently would put that on for the last class or two of the semester. I can't even tell if it's a bad movie, I just know I despise it.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:53
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I just remember it as one of those songs that gets played on rotation at Christmas as far back as I can remember that no one really brought up until the whole controversy.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:53
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I had literally never heard of the song until college when I was informed that it was problematic. I guess I did see Elf when I was a kid but had no memory of that scene.
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Dec 4, 2023 17:54
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Randalor posted:I think it's been brought up before but hey, tis the season and all that, the lyrics to "Baby it's cold outside" have not aged well. I know that it reflects the social norms for the time it was written but when you have lines like "Say, what's in this drink" have very different implications in the past few decades, it just shows that maaaaaybe we don't need to keep every song as a "Christmas classic". My kid (we're German) is just old enough now to know enough English to fully understand the lyrics to some American holiday classics. Yesterday night he wanted to sing a few of them with my wife and me, and we put on some YouTube karaoke versions so we could sing along. After "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" he looked very puzzled. "Why did people write a song about Santa spying on them?"
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Dec 4, 2023 18:03
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Dopilsya posted:This reminds me of some other poorly aging media On the other hand, Future Man had a subplot I found incredibly progressive. (It's been a while since I watched the show, so I may be blurry on the details) The uber-macho "warrior" guy at one point gets taken in by this very warm and loving polyamourous-extended-family-cluster type of clan, starts caring for the child of the group and begins to mellow out considerably. A decade earlier this would've been played for "gay panic" or "he's turning into a woman" laughs, but AFAIK everyone is very chill about it.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:13
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Oh god I forgot Futureman had the vaccine thing. Yikes and oops. It had a tendency to get really gross on occasion but it genuinely was funny and as mentioned, had some fun poking at macho stereotypes.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:29
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Looking at the wikipedia page, "Baby It's Cold Outside" has always been around and generally found a new recording every year or so starting in the 90s (I think that was because pop stars recording Christmas albums began a much bigger deal coming out of the 80s) and then really took off in 2012 where it had 6 releases, and it became a mainstay of celebrity cash-in Christmas albums. I think that's the real drive for getting overplayed: it's a good fit for that kind of album, a smooth duet that's flirty, but isn't as forward as a song like "Santa Baby" and it's not really all that vocally complicated. It's not anyone's favorite song, but when you're looking for 14 Christmas songs, it fills a good niche. It's a Christmas song about loving you can play in a Wal-Mart: there's not a lot of competition there. Then #MeToo hits in 2017, there's a lot of mainstream discussion about it that Christmas, and in 2018, there's only one new release. It doesn't go away, but it definitely took a hit. Now, it's a song you record to either reclaim it, embrace it as some kind of anti-woke song, or edit the lyrics to try and salvage it like John Legend did.
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Dec 4, 2023 18:59
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In the movie it was in, Neptune's Daughter, had Ricardo Montalban singing the "wolf" part and Esther Williams as the girl. The movie also had a gender flipped version with Red Skelton singing the "girl" part and another actress singing the "wolf" part. There was also a version with Bing Crosby as the "wolf" and Jimmy Stewart as the other.
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Dec 4, 2023 19:49
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ponzicar posted:Baby It's Cold Outside is a song I don't remember hearing at all during any holiday season or other time of the year until boomers started rallying around it thinking they were scoring points in the culture war. I think whoever owns the rights to it did a media blitz a few years back to make money and gaslight people into thinking it was ever a beloved holiday classic in the first place, let alone one that was under threat. Sample size of one, but my mom is a fan of Xmas music and a bit of a collector, to the point where one of my favorite family memories is her finding out Napster was capable of finding obscure songs, and sitting down with me at the computer so I could help build her the ultimate Xmas mix CDs  Baby It's Cold Outside was an afterthought level song that ended up on disc 3 of 3. That's the one she never bothers to put in the car. I remember her saying something like, "I dunno, it's well done but it's kinda creepy."
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Dec 4, 2023 20:08
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If I want that same kind of cat and mouse interplay but done better (at the sacrifice of the light Christmas theming) I reach for "Some Velvet Morning" by Lee Hazelwood & Nancy Sinatra. Now that's some heady poo poo.
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Dec 4, 2023 20:11
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I hate how things that we pretty much always knew were creepy and didn't much care for anyway are now being held up as "things the woke mob is trying to steal from us". Not really the same thing, but on the topic of weird Christmas songs, I was thinking today of "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" and how it's weird how hard they commit to that "new old fashioned way" lyric. It's like someone said to them "Hey, what does that mean exactly?" and they just got so furious that they made sure it was in the song as many times as possible.
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Dec 4, 2023 20:14
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everyone already knew baby it's cold outside is about a coy game between two people who know what they're doing, it just became an online purity test because people think that saying "it doesn't matter if it isn't bad, as long as it sounds bad" gives them extra credit or something
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Dec 4, 2023 20:24
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Sir Lemming posted:Not really the same thing, but on the topic of weird Christmas songs, I was thinking today of "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" and how it's weird how hard they commit to that "new old fashioned way" lyric. It's like someone said to them "Hey, what does that mean exactly?" and they just got so furious that they made sure it was in the song as many times as possible. Now here's a perfect example of why every singer puts out a Christmas album. It's one of the most generic songs you could imagine, with no ambition past including an electric guitar for The Youths, and we are all still subjected to hearing it over half a century later. Somebody still makes money off of it every time it's on the radio! That piece of poo poo song! If you manage to enter the Christmas song canon with It's Christmas But We're On Uh A Cruise Ship or whatever, you're set for life.
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Dec 4, 2023 20:50
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As a woke lib I cut off my entire family because grammy grams had it on her Pandora rotation Christmas Eve a few years ago and I've never looked back
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Dec 4, 2023 20:54
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"Baby it's cold outside" sucks, not because it's old-timey rapey, but because it's impossible to sing along to outside the context of a romantic duet. Like half the point of Christmas songs is a bunch of drunk people singing along to it in a social gathering, it's annoying as poo poo to do that with a duet and deciding who sings what bits. It's only good for filling car radio airtime and playing on the speakers in Walmart in December
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Dec 4, 2023 22:39
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It works for Fairytale of New York because a bunch of drunk people can take joy in singing a bunch of profanities.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:41
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I thought Baby It's Cold Outside was a cute couples' duet that was one of the few Christmas songs I didn't completely hate, then I came around to it being problematic, and now the discourse around it is so old and circular I just pretend it doesn't exist until some rear end in a top hat brings up the conversation the minute Christmas music is brought up and the cycle begins anew.
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Dec 4, 2023 22:49
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:my mom is a fan of Xmas music and a bit of a collector, to the point where one of my favorite family memories is her finding out Napster was capable of finding obscure songs, and sitting down with me at the computer so I could help build her the ultimate Xmas mix CDs the thing that aged poorly is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, now known as the "Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square" since 2018 apparently, for the obvious reasons
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Dec 4, 2023 23:03
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I like most Christmas songs. Even the Paul McCartney one.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:09
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hawowanlawow posted:everyone already knew baby it's cold outside is about a coy game between two people who know what they're doing, it just became an online purity test because people think that saying "it doesn't matter if it isn't bad, as long as it sounds bad" gives them extra credit or something The chance to destroy Christmas music must be taken.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:14
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DACK FAYDEN posted:the thing that aged poorly is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, now known as the "Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square" since 2018 apparently, for the obvious reasons I hate them because my mom makes fun of how I pronounced "tabernacle" as a kid.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:15
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DACK FAYDEN posted:my mother is morally against piracy but was absolutely thrilled to receive a usb-capable tape deck to move her Mormon Tabernacle Choir casette tapes to her iPod one year for Christmas What reasons?
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Dec 4, 2023 23:18
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The Wicked ZOGA posted:I like most Christmas songs. Even the Paul McCartney one. hosed up!
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Dec 4, 2023 23:25
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Spazzle posted:What reasons? I looked it up and it turns out Mormons don't actually refer to themselves as Mormons officially, and the church basically reiterated that with a public request in 2018 and the choir changed to match the requested language from church officials.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:30
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Byzantine posted:The chance to destroy Christmas music must be taken. ‘Tis true. There are no prisoners in the war on Christmas. None were taken during the illegal invasion of thanksgiving, and even Halloween gets no quarter from the bearded man in red.
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Dec 4, 2023 23:37
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The best take on "Baby It's Cold Outside" was from Key & Peele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqd84F6R33g
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Dec 5, 2023 00:05
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Dave Syndrome posted:On the other hand, Future Man had a subplot I found incredibly progressive. (It's been a while since I watched the show, so I may be blurry on the details) The uber-macho "warrior" guy at one point gets taken in by this very warm and loving polyamourous-extended-family-cluster type of clan, starts caring for the child of the group and begins to mellow out considerably. A decade earlier this would've been played for "gay panic" or "he's turning into a woman" laughs, but AFAIK everyone is very chill about it. Fanged Lawn Wormy posted:Oh god I forgot Futureman had the vaccine thing. Yikes and oops. To be clear, in general I found the show very funny and great takedown of the hard man ubercommando. Even before that plotline, one of the major earlier plot points is that guy meets a caring and nurturing father figure who teaches him he can be more than just a killer and he becomes a gourmet chef and has his first genuinely happy moments in life. It's just the vaccine thing was mind blowing to watch in 2023. It could've even been a really intriguing plotline if they'd developed it more from the moment of "you basically joined isis" into a "am I the baddie?", but it never really went there. Icon Of Sin posted:‘Tis true. There are no prisoners in the war on Christmas. None were taken during the illegal invasion of thanksgiving, and even Halloween gets no quarter from the bearded man in red. Jack Skellington started that war and attacked with no regard for civilian casualties. Santa has a right to defend himself.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:05
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Icon Of Sin posted:‘Tis true. There are no prisoners in the war on Christmas. None were taken during the illegal invasion of thanksgiving, and even Halloween gets no quarter from the bearded man in red. Ever since he conquered the Martians back in the 60s, Santa just keeps up with the saber-rattling
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Dec 5, 2023 00:15
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This is the best Christmas album and I think? it's Goon made, so you know it's quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i37HIOMhXok
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Dec 5, 2023 00:30
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Dopilsya posted:"What? He joked about that???" Googling it afterward; yes Bill Cosby no loving poo poo had a short routine about it Short? Wasn't it like half an album side? About the TV show and going to Spain and everything. It didn't occur to us kids what he was actually endorsing, just some exotic adult thing....
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Dec 5, 2023 00:38
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Dave Syndrome posted:My kid (we're German) is just old enough now to know enough English to fully understand the lyrics to some American holiday classics. Yesterday night he wanted to sing a few of them with my wife and me, and we put on some YouTube karaoke versions so we could sing along. I remembered thinking that too, but it was after I read the Calvin and Hobbes strip where Calvin has a similar reaction to that same song.
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Dec 5, 2023 00:54
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hawowanlawow posted:everyone already knew baby it's cold outside is about a coy game between two people who know what they're doing, it just became an online purity test because people think that saying "it doesn't matter if it isn't bad, as long as it sounds bad" gives them extra credit or something That's what makes the discourse so tedious. What the song is about feels really obvious, but people are so adamant about their takes that I can't tell if they're deliberately lying for clout or just really dumb. Then again people are apparently notoriously bad at picking up on when someone is flirting with them so maybe they really are failing to pick up on the dynamic of the song
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Dec 5, 2023 01:03
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Chrpno posted:Short? Wasn't it like half an album side? About the TV show and going to Spain and everything. It didn't occur to us kids what he was actually endorsing, just some exotic adult thing.... I only saw a 3 minute clip on youtube. I suppose there's no reason for me to think that's all he had to say on the subject. I ain't gonna search for and listen to a full Bill Cosby album just to confirm how much wink-wink joking about drug assisted rape he does tho.
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Dec 5, 2023 01:05
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Dave Syndrome posted:My kid (we're German) is just old enough now to know enough English to fully understand the lyrics to some American holiday classics. Yesterday night he wanted to sing a few of them with my wife and me, and we put on some YouTube karaoke versions so we could sing along. Ministerium für Santasicherheit
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Dec 5, 2023 01:34
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I had definitely heard it before a few years ago. I feel like I saw it on the Muppets or something in the 90s. It definitely isn't a "holiday classic" though.
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Dec 5, 2023 02:07
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If you think Cosby's Spanish Fly bit is bad, things get worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBDRwiSZSBg (It's the bit about his special bbq sauce from The Cosby Show.) Vandar has a new favorite as of 03:16 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 03:12
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