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Teriyaki Hairpiece
Dec 29, 2006

I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

BonHair posted:

Maybe try a different hairstyle?

I guess it couldn't hurt...

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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Infamously, Google, back in the oughties, hired some of the greatest, biggest-name UI designers in the world, and then insisted on A/B testing every single feature independent of the whole.

Maybe they should've tried stack ranking the UI elements instead?

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Ruffian Price posted:

That's two more gross comments to the list, from people who weren't even interacting directly with the service worker in question

dead dove meme, I guess, blech

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Infamously, Google, back in the oughties, hired some of the greatest, biggest-name UI designers in the world, and then insisted on A/B testing every single feature independent of the whole.

I work w a lot of amazing designers in the tech world and this a/b poo poo still gets done to death. It's how useless PMs and poo poo prove their "impact" I guess

DACK FAYDEN
Feb 25, 2013

Bear Witness

Martha Stewart Undying posted:

I work w a lot of amazing designers in the tech world and this a/b poo poo still gets done to death. It's how useless PMs and poo poo prove their "impact" I guess
I dropped out with a master's in experimetal economics

when I talk about actual experiment design and ways to remove bias and get accurate results and stuff, nobody cares
when I describe it as "like a/b testing" businesspeoples eyes light up

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

BonHair posted:

I'm gonna use Cultural Fordism from now on

We've done it, we've found the dog whistle for WASPs.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?
As someone who quit giving a poo poo about computers in high school what's the issue with it? The little google blurb says it's comparing 2 different variations of a page which doesn't sound inherently stupid

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

Milo and POTUS posted:

As someone who quit giving a poo poo about computers in high school what's the issue with it? The little google blurb says it's comparing 2 different variations of a page which doesn't sound inherently stupid

A. It's just a controlled experiment, a thing that already exists and is the foundation of all modern scientific work, rebranded for tech idiots

B. They don't test two versions of a page, they test two versions of a part of a page and do what does best in isolation. The result is a surrealist mishmash with no actual consideration for how it would work as a whole.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003

Milo and POTUS posted:

As someone who quit giving a poo poo about computers in high school what's the issue with it? The little google blurb says it's comparing 2 different variations of a page which doesn't sound inherently stupid

55% of people preferred beer, 45% preferred coffee. In a separate study, 55% preferred cereal, 45% preferred a hamburger. the restaurant now only sells beereal value meals.

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

Milo and POTUS posted:

As someone who quit giving a poo poo about computers in high school what's the issue with it? The little google blurb says it's comparing 2 different variations of a page which doesn't sound inherently stupid

its how the cowards that run society get around actually making decisions. a/b testing is the death of intentional, creative control. there's no vision in it, just more meetings

kuarduck
Nov 15, 2012

I'm in disguise, you stupid tart!


At least the Capitalists haven't ruined Slinky, yet.

e: granted, the fucker probably already has an insane price per unit margin.

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89
Grimey Drawer
the instant one coil in a slinky gets out of alignment, that fucker's done for

blatman
May 10, 2009

14 inc dont mez


Laterite posted:

the instant one coil in a slinky gets out of alignment, that fucker's done for

i used to work as a slinky technician and its not bad respooling the coils as long as its just one or two loops, u got some kid straightening out the whole thing though and you might be looking at several dozen man hours in kink removal not to mention getting it coiled to design tolerances

Ditocoaf
Jun 1, 2011

That's why you should sign up for our slinky subscription service, you'll get a brand new slinky to replace your damaged one each month, along with a bunch of fun accessories and add-ons and an app to track your slinky usage and share your slinky experiences with friends

Ditocoaf has issued a correction as of 02:03 on Dec 4, 2023

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

blatman posted:

i used to work as a slinky technician and its not bad respooling the coils as long as its just one or two loops, u got some kid straightening out the whole thing though and you might be looking at several dozen man hours in kink removal not to mention getting it coiled to design tolerances

reported for kinkshaming

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
slinkshaming was right there

SpacePig
Apr 4, 2007

Hold that pose.
I've gotta get something.
kinkslinking

Turambar
Feb 20, 2001

A Túrin Turambar turun ambartanen
Grimey Drawer
I'm sure most of you have seen this before, but a slinky falling in slow-motion is a special thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCw5JXD18y4

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

tokin opposition posted:

They don't test two versions of a page, they test two versions of a part of a page and do what does best in isolation. The result is a surrealist mishmash with no actual consideration for how it would work as a whole.

That's very funny.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Martha Stewart Undying posted:

its how the cowards that run society get around actually making decisions. a/b testing is the death of intentional, creative control. there's no vision in it, just more meetings

Hit the nail on the head.

The difference between managers and leaders is that leaders make decisions, managers don't. Because making decisions means you risk making the wrong decision, and then being held to account for it. This is how you can arrest your career development, or even lose your job for being bad at it. But managers are still in charge, so something has to be done and they are still responsible for it. How can you get anything done without making decisions? Easy, you rigidly follow whatever process has been deemed generally accepted within your organization. Like a/b testing, which managers (including most importantly, your manager) seem to universally believe is cool and good. So you a/b test everything and go with whatever gets output out of that proces. You call that your decision-making (please pay no mind that a literal monkey could do this job given how deskilled you just made it), but if the results turn to poo poo, you just point to all the documentation you have that proves that you followed the generally accepted process, so nobody can really blame you (without taking blame themselves, for why did they accept the process in the first place? and haven't they themselves used the same process?) so welp, shrug and move on.

As an aside, imo it's related to how "no serious people could have seen coming the problems with the Iraq invasion before it happened", which is accepted mainstream discourse in the US. Why? Because if you did see problems coming you weren't serious. And then when things went to obvious poo poo, nobody could be held accountable because everyone* had collectively been wrong in the same way, so nobody really failed at an individual level, so it wouldn't be fair to have anyone experience any negative impact on their careers.

It comes down to a (deliberate, imo) lack of vision that is inherent in modern day liberalism and a resolute rejection of the very idea of responsibility (other than as a reason they oughta be paid the big bucks). Or maybe a seperation between responsibility and accountability? Either way the main point is that nobody should ever be allowed to say that anyone in management is bad at their job.


In my experience there's still some people acting as leaders in corporations, though they are few and far between and their position is, due to the above, more precarious. You know the difference because a leader will tell a bunch of people what they need to do, while a manager will just endlessly schedule more meetings.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 16:26 on Dec 4, 2023

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018
Well said.

Elon Musk is a leader. He just happens to be one of the worst ones in human history.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Failed Imagineer posted:

Well said.

Elon Musk is a leader. He just happens to be one of the worst ones in human history.

Hilariously his position is not precarious enough, meaning he also gets to act untethered by consequences, which means he gets to keep loving up over and over again and never has to learn anything, which he has in common with managers.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Orange Devil, read The Psychology of Military Incompetence

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
You wrote an autobiography?





If you set em up like that I can't not knock em down. But no for real, gimme an elevator pitch here.

DR FRASIER KRANG
Feb 4, 2005

"Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?
at my company we've had so many career folks retire (a lot of them solely because their pension payouts would be hosed if they didn't) that nothing can get done anymore because nobody knows the processes and even if they did there isn't enough people to do all the work anyway.

now I routinely see people who "retired" in the building with contractor badges.

ClassActionFursuit
Mar 15, 2006

Orange Devil posted:

Hit the nail on the head.

The difference between managers and leaders is that leaders make decisions, managers don't. Because making decisions means you risk making the wrong decision, and then being held to account for it. This is how you can arrest your career development, or even lose your job for being bad at it. But managers are still in charge, so something has to be done and they are still responsible for it. How can you get anything done without making decisions? Easy, you rigidly follow whatever process has been deemed generally accepted within your organization. Like a/b testing, which managers (including most importantly, your manager) seem to universally believe is cool and good. So you a/b test everything and go with whatever gets output out of that proces. You call that your decision-making (please pay no mind that a literal monkey could do this job given how deskilled you just made it), but if the results turn to poo poo, you just point to all the documentation you have that proves that you followed the generally accepted process, so nobody can really blame you (without taking blame themselves, for why did they accept the process in the first place? and haven't they themselves used the same process?) so welp, shrug and move on.

As an aside, imo it's related to how "no serious people could have seen coming the problems with the Iraq invasion before it happened", which is accepted mainstream discourse in the US. Why? Because if you did see problems coming you weren't serious. And then when things went to obvious poo poo, nobody could be held accountable because everyone* had collectively been wrong in the same way, so nobody really failed at an individual level, so it wouldn't be fair to have anyone experience any negative impact on their careers.

It comes down to a (deliberate, imo) lack of vision that is inherent in modern day liberalism and a resolute rejection of the very idea of responsibility (other than as a reason they oughta be paid the big bucks). Or maybe a seperation between responsibility and accountability? Either way the main point is that nobody should ever be allowed to say that anyone in management is bad at their job.


In my experience there's still some people acting as leaders in corporations, though they are few and far between and their position is, due to the above, more precarious. You know the difference because a leader will tell a bunch of people what they need to do, while a manager will just endlessly schedule more meetings.

This is a correct assessment of the current state of management as far as I can tell. I've often said that my employer runs on the "virtuous circle" of broken processes > acceptance of failure > no one is responsible which lines up exactly with what you've described. It really is something that's everywhere once you've been trained to see it.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

ClassActionFursuit posted:

This is a correct assessment of the current state of management as far as I can tell. I've often said that my employer runs on the "virtuous circle" of broken processes > acceptance of failure > no one is responsible which lines up exactly with what you've described. It really is something that's everywhere once you've been trained to see it.

No one is responsible. Time to do layoffs to offset the losses, but not of me or anyone else with agency in the very poor decisions that got us here.


Management takes all the risks :v:

HashtagGirlboss
Jan 4, 2005

Was just chatting with my boss and apparently performance reviews this year are a strict quota of 10% excelling, 60% performing, and 30% underperforming lmfao

My boss thinks it’s to bring down the numbers for bonuses this year but I can’t help wonder since we came in way below our attrition goal that it’s prepping for another round of layoffs

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

ClassActionFursuit posted:

This is a correct assessment of the current state of management as far as I can tell. I've often said that my employer runs on the "virtuous circle" of broken processes > acceptance of failure > no one is responsible which lines up exactly with what you've described. It really is something that's everywhere once you've been trained to see it.

It's responsibility laundering.

No decisions can be made, you must follow The Procedure.
The Procedure sprang into being fully-formed, it was not the product of any decisions.

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

HashtagGirlboss posted:

Was just chatting with my boss and apparently performance reviews this year are a strict quota of 10% excelling, 60% performing, and 30% underperforming lmfao

My boss thinks it’s to bring down the numbers for bonuses this year but I can’t help wonder since we came in way below our attrition goal that it’s prepping for another round of layoffs

If only you were better employees.

LeeMajors
Jan 20, 2005

I've gotta stop fantasizing about Lee Majors...
Ah, one more!


HashtagGirlboss posted:

Was just chatting with my boss and apparently performance reviews this year are a strict quota of 10% excelling, 60% performing, and 30% underperforming lmfao

My boss thinks it’s to bring down the numbers for bonuses this year but I can’t help wonder since we came in way below our attrition goal that it’s prepping for another round of layoffs

performance reviews are all made-up horseshit.

ours is sold to us as NUMBERS DRIVEN because every category is 0-4 with 4 being exceeds expectations except several categories such as tardiness/attendance, uniform poo poo and “do they follow safety standards Y/N” are scored within that rubric but 0 for bad and 2 for good. so several categories are artificially lowered just due to dichotomy, but they are averaged in on a scale of 4. we’ve pointed this denominator fuckery out to HR with no relief given.

I had an ops chief at a different service years ago who, when a shift supervisor retired, took over all the yearly reviews. because she was dumb as gently caress, she decided “I haven’t seen these people perform in the field” and gave us all 0s for every performance category, then was shocked when HR sent the forms back because everyone had performance scores <1.

buck wild that she made six figures with a take home vehicle, had a masters degree, and didn’t understand 4th grade math.

BRJurgis
Aug 15, 2007

Well I hear the thunder roll, I feel the cold winds blowing...
But you won't find me there, 'cause I won't go back again...
While you're on smoky roads, I'll be out in the sun...
Where the trees still grow, where they count by one...
Mandatory pizza party!

HashtagGirlboss
Jan 4, 2005

LeeMajors posted:

performance reviews are all made-up horseshit.

ours is sold to us as NUMBERS DRIVEN because every category is 0-4 with 4 being exceeds expectations except several categories such as tardiness/attendance, uniform poo poo and “do they follow safety standards Y/N” are scored within that rubric but 0 for bad and 2 for good. so several categories are artificially lowered just due to dichotomy, but they are averaged in on a scale of 4. we’ve pointed this denominator fuckery out to HR with no relief given.

I had an ops chief at a different service years ago who, when a shift supervisor retired, took over all the yearly reviews. because she was dumb as gently caress, she decided “I haven’t seen these people perform in the field” and gave us all 0s for every performance category, then was shocked when HR sent the forms back because everyone had performance scores <1.

buck wild that she made six figures with a take home vehicle, had a masters degree, and didn’t understand 4th grade math.

Oh for sure they’re made up bullshit. Ours are just a 1-3 with three very objective categories of “agility” and “knowledge” and “initiative” lmao. But the hard quotas on people who need to be ranked as underperforming is the wild part - apparently nearly a third of the company is absolutely miserable at their jobs (honestly believable but still)

That’s hilarious though. Just failing every single person because you’re too lazy to spend twenty minutes shadowing people and talk to their peers

Second Hand Meat Mouth
Sep 12, 2001

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

don’t spend that money, op. also get an accountant for taxes this year

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Subjunctive posted:

don’t spend that money, op. also get an accountant for taxes this year

Also immediately remove all money that isn't part of that overage from the account you're using for direct deposit and put it in a different checking account so when they try to claw back too much they don't gently caress your account.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

HashtagGirlboss posted:

Was just chatting with my boss and apparently performance reviews this year are a strict quota of 10% excelling, 60% performing, and 30% underperforming lmfao

My boss thinks it’s to bring down the numbers for bonuses this year but I can’t help wonder since we came in way below our attrition goal that it’s prepping for another round of layoffs

This is called stack ranking.

It was pioneered by tech companies. It is dumb and doesn't work to improve organizational performance and also costs a lot of money in creating turnover (recruiting cost, cost of bringing new employees up to speed, depending on where you're doing it severance pay) and worst of all it creates internal competition between employees, as they realize their continued state of having a job to pay their bills depends on enough of their colleagues being rated worse than them. So it's a very effective way to eliminate cooperation within your organization and create a culture that will sustain that behaviour for a long time to come.

I would advise you to get out if you can, and if you can't better get real good at office politics and stabbing colleagues in the back to secure your own job.


GotLag posted:

It's responsibility laundering.

No decisions can be made, you must follow The Procedure.
The Procedure sprang into being fully-formed, it was not the product of any decisions.

This is why The Procedure nearly always originates external to the organization, preferably something both hyped and meaningless enough that you can also use it as an excuse to do whatever dumb bullshit you've always wanted to do. So your Leans, Agiles, Scrums, Kanbans, a/b testing, you name whatever dumb bullshit. As far as I can tell none of these originated as dumb bullshit, and served a specific goal in a specific context, sometimes even in a specific company, and did so very well. And then a bunch of people ("academics") go study it and publish about it, and others become gurus and teach it in courses or get themselves hired to implement it and blablabla all of these people are bullshit artist charlatans as none of them ever loving did real work with The Procedure in its intended context so they spend their entire careers trying to jam the square block they've found into every single goddamn hole they come across no matter the shape. Invariably these assholes get paid more than you do.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 11:00 on Dec 5, 2023

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

At a previous job, they had a Very Serious Employee Evaluation Method. My own manager was quite possibly a literal psychopath and really enjoyed it, while for me and my teammates it had zero value.
However, the neighbouring manager had a little toy fishing game with numbers under the fish with a sign informing everyone that this was his method of assigning points. He basically told me and everyone that he talked to his people in a normal person way about their job and life and stuff and then, at the end, they sort of scribbled down some numbers that fit the plans they already made, and which fit into the office politics. Then they promptly forgot the numbers. He was a pretty good manager I think. Also his team always acted like an 8th grade class while still performing above expectation.

In my current job, we have a template with basic questions that we may or may not actually use. It's mostly just a meeting to figure out if everything is working and how much more I should get paid. But my current manager sucks at being a manager, he takes responsibility, does work and admits to the mistakes he makes.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

i just got an email yesterday saying it's evaluation time. my company makes us, the employee, do a self-evaluation first and then our bosses look at ours and counter with theirs. making us snitch on ourselves...ruthless

anyway, i just pick 4/5 and 5/5 on pretty much everything without thinking too much about it because my boss doesn't give a poo poo

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3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

Eat This Glob posted:

i just got an email yesterday saying it's evaluation time. my company makes us, the employee, do a self-evaluation first and then our bosses look at ours and counter with theirs. making us snitch on ourselves...ruthless

anyway, i just pick 4/5 and 5/5 on pretty much everything without thinking too much about it because my boss doesn't give a poo poo

I pick proficiencies (no I won't spell-check that) that have gently caress-all to do with my job and my boss knows gently caress-all about and put in 3/3 and it makes him groan but if the system allows it, it allows it :shrug:

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