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Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
:page3:

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FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

Woolie Wool posted:

to me systemd seems like a culture war proxy, if someone hates systemd they probably also hate queer people and jews

People who still use InitD support Zionism. :colbert:

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

go play outside Skyler posted:

from boot to the initd gnu/linux will be free

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

go play outside Skyler posted:

from boot to the initd gnu/linux will be free

:pwn:

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe

shackleford posted:

the devuan weirdos who hack the systemd dependencies out of their debian fork call themselves "Veteran Unix Admins", they are absolutely hearkening back to a nostalgic and mythological past (where linux systems could be reliably booted with a pile of buggy shell scripts) and believe the changes today are being forced on them by outsiders

the debian project periodically has a developer vote about systemd (e.g. https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002_results.png) that the systemd detractors lose and some of them rage quit the project, because an issue they cared about was decided by a democratic vote and they lost and they couldn't handle that

lol why is that vote result a digraph? it looks like there was a multiple choice A-H?

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
retvrn but the v stands for system v

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

woop

that was a lot of work

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Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Hed posted:

lol why is that vote result a digraph? it looks like there was a multiple choice A-H?

debian voting is an extremely advanced Condorcet preference system

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

ooh

hdr and adaptive sync

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Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

bah looks like poo poo when i have to resize it down to something somethingawful will accept

mystes
May 31, 2006

Have you considered using a distro where everything isn't a lot of work?

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

mystes posted:

Have you considered using a distro where everything isn't a lot of work?

lol this site still exists: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/by-others/funroll-loops/Gentoo-is-Rice.html

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

mystes posted:

Have you considered using a distro where everything isn't a lot of work?

no

shackleford
Sep 4, 2006

Hed posted:

lol why is that vote result a digraph? it looks like there was a multiple choice A-H?

  1. Each voter's ballot ranks the options being voted on. Not all options need be ranked. Ranked options are considered preferred to all unranked options. Voters may rank options equally. Unranked options are considered to be ranked equally with one another. Details of how ballots may be filled out will be included in the Call For Votes.

  2. If the ballot has a quorum requirement R any options other than the default option which do not receive at least R votes ranking that option above the default option are dropped from consideration.

  3. Any (non-default) option which does not defeat the default option by its required majority ratio is dropped from consideration.
    1. Given two options A and B, V(A,B) is the number of voters who prefer option A over option B.
    2. An option A defeats the default option D by a majority ratio N, if V(A,D) is greater or equal to N * V(D,A) and V(A,D) is strictly greater than V(D,A).
    3. If a supermajority of S:1 is required for A, its majority ratio is S; otherwise, its majority ratio is 1.

  4. From the list of undropped options, we generate a list of pairwise defeats.
    1. An option A defeats an option B, if V(A,B) is strictly greater than V(B,A).

  5. From the list of [undropped] pairwise defeats, we generate a set of transitive defeats.
    1. An option A transitively defeats an option C if A defeats C or if there is some other option B where A defeats B AND B transitively defeats C.

  6. We construct the Schwartz set from the set of transitive defeats.
    1. An option A is in the Schwartz set if for all options B, either A transitively defeats B, or B does not transitively defeat A.

  7. If there are defeats between options in the Schwartz set, we drop the weakest such defeats from the list of pairwise defeats, and return to step 5.
    1. A defeat (A,X) is weaker than a defeat (B,Y) if V(A,X) is less than V(B,Y). Also, (A,X) is weaker than (B,Y) if V(A,X) is equal to V(B,Y) and V(X,A) is greater than V(Y,B).
    2. A weakest defeat is a defeat that has no other defeat weaker than it. There may be more than one such defeat.

  8. If there are no defeats within the Schwartz set, then the winner is chosen from the options in the Schwartz set. If there is only one such option, it is the winner. If there are multiple options, the elector with the casting vote chooses which of those options wins.

Note: Options which the voters rank above the default option are options they find acceptable. Options ranked below the default options are options they find unacceptable.

When the vote counting mechanism of the Standard Resolution Procedure is to be used, the text which refers to it must specify who has a casting vote, the quorum, the default option, and any supermajority requirement. The default option must not have any supermajority requirements.

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


shackleford posted:

the devuan weirdos who hack the systemd dependencies out of their debian fork call themselves "Veteran Unix Admins", they are absolutely hearkening back to a nostalgic and mythological past (where linux systems could be reliably booted with a pile of buggy shell scripts) and believe the changes today are being forced on them by outsiders

the debian project periodically has a developer vote about systemd (e.g. https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002_results.png) that the systemd detractors lose and some of them rage quit the project, because an issue they cared about was decided by a democratic vote and they lost and they couldn't handle that

I for one can't believe Linux made it for almost 20 years on what was essentially a glorified version of AUTOEXEC.BAT :lol:

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Tankakern posted:

hdr and adaptive sync

adaptive sync has been a thing for a while now on wayland kde, but hdr is new in 6 yeah

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

spent the weekend using kde and i found it really intuitive. not sure im going to switch away from gnome on my main desktop yet but i might once plasma 6 drops.

shackleford
Sep 4, 2006

Woolie Wool posted:

I for one can't believe Linux made it for almost 20 years on what was essentially a glorified version of AUTOEXEC.BAT :lol:

yeah looks like about 22 years if you measure from these changelog entries to debian/rhel shipping systemd by default

quote:

2.0 08-Dec-92
- Rewrote the code totally, so started with a new
version number.
- Dropped Minix support, this code now is Linux - specific.
- With TEST switch on, this init & telinit can
run standalone for test purposes.

1.3, 05-Jul-92
- Got a 386, so installed Linux. Added 'soft' reboot
to be default under linux. Fixed some typos.

mystes
May 31, 2006

Woolie Wool posted:

I for one can't believe Linux made it for almost 20 years on what was essentially a glorified version of AUTOEXEC.BAT :lol:
autoexec.bat was just like .bashrc, it wasn't something that actually started the os

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

yeah, nobody ever used autoexec.bat to load up services (tsrs) or drivers

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

i load my cdrom drivers with bashrc

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

same with my memory manager

shackleford
Sep 4, 2006

modprobe mscdex.ko

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

linux quad. i'm out.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

outhole surfer
Mar 18, 2003

gently caress

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
man mount

mystes
May 31, 2006

dunno if tsrs really qualify as "services" either, or I suppose dos as an os when you get down to it

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

Woolie Wool posted:

I for one can't believe Linux made it for almost 20 years on what was essentially a glorified version of AUTOEXEC.BAT :lol:

yeah its embarrassing how bad the unix philosophy was and how many people still cling to it

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

post hole digger posted:

spent the weekend using kde and i found it really intuitive. not sure im going to switch away from gnome on my main desktop yet but i might once plasma 6 drops.

the newer versions are really slick, i generally use it when i have to use linux at work

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life

nudgenudgetilt posted:

linux quad. i'm out.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

the only file system i'm interested in

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



It's got built-in mirror parity.

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

post hole digger posted:

spent the weekend using kde and i found it really intuitive. not sure im going to switch away from gnome on my main desktop yet but i might once plasma 6 drops.

i've been using it a bit on my chromebook project and yeah, if i were to use linux full-time on it i'd definitely use it instead of gnome

weirdly the wayland version is still a bit slower than the X one (which, uh, uses xwayland, so wtf?) but that's fine i guess. i don't really care how it's rendered so long as it works well

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

Shaggar posted:

yeah its embarrassing how bad the unix philosophy was and how many people still cling to it

yeah its so bad that microsoft implemented it into the nt kernel 30 years ago

(and just gave us a truly useful way of using that like 4 years ago)

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

mystes posted:

autoexec.bat was just like .bashrc, it wasn't something that actually started the os

maybe like, post windows 98? otherwise :wrong:

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN
now going to actually get the linux quad

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

Beeftweeter posted:

yeah its so bad that microsoft implemented it into the nt kernel 30 years ago

(and just gave us a truly useful way of using that like 4 years ago)

its all services and stuff in NT more like what systemd is trying to be

shackleford
Sep 4, 2006

Beeftweeter posted:

yeah its so bad that microsoft implemented it into the nt kernel 30 years ago

(and just gave us a truly useful way of using that like 4 years ago)

as far as i can tell unix support on NT has undergone four distinct phases each of which was mostly unrelated to and supplanted the previous one. the recent stuff is like totally unrelated to the early stuff

there was the original totally useless POSIX subsystem which was just some vintage POSIX.1 APIs and didn't include a shell, purely for decorative FIPS certification purposes

there was the interix acquisition that brought "Services for Unix"

there was WSL1 which was a syscall compatibility layer for linux ELF binaries

then when they got tired of trying to emulate the whole linux kernel/userspace interface in windows they gave up and started running linux binaries in a managed VM, that's WSL2

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

Shaggar posted:

its all services and stuff in NT more like what systemd is trying to be

i meant more the POSIX compatibility that was in like NT 3.5, but SFU/interix sucked major rear end

i know less about the more modern implementation but i think it literally emulates a linux kernel to the point that there's a lot of actual linux kernel code in there now

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Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN

shackleford posted:

as far as i can tell unix support on NT has undergone four distinct phases each of which was mostly unrelated to and supplanted the previous one. the recent stuff is like totally unrelated to the early stuff

there was the original totally useless POSIX subsystem which was just some vintage POSIX.1 APIs and didn't include a shell, purely for decorative FIPS certification purposes

there was the interix acquisition that brought "Services for Unix"

there was WSL1 which was a syscall compatibility layer for linux ELF binaries

then when they got tired of trying to emulate the whole linux kernel API in windows they gave up and started running linux binaries in a managed VM, that's WSL2

lol welp. only comment i have here is that i think WSL1 is still being actively developed? it at least was an option not too long ago

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