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P sure caffeine is like, item two in that red cover book that no one is supposed to read about anti establishment culinary ventures. How did they not know caffeine has a narrowly defined survivable dose. Food scientists exist and are employed by a lot of companies. Guarantee that several factories make this for them, hard to believe no one raised a hand.
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Dec 9, 2023 17:54
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Basic Poster posted:P sure caffeine is like, item two in that red cover book that no one is supposed to read about anti establishment culinary ventures. How did they not know caffeine has a narrowly defined survivable dose. Food scientists exist and are employed by a lot of companies. Guarantee that several factories make this for them, hard to believe no one raised a hand. quote:The median lethal dose (LD50) of caffeine is estimated between 150 to 200 mg per kilogram but reports of lethal intoxications have been made with doses as low as 57 mg per kilogram Normally the only way healthy people manage to kill themselves with caffeine is by buying pure powdered caffeine and getting the dose wrong. It's really hard to do it by just drinking energy drinks or coffee, and as far as I know, nobody has suggested that the Panera lemonade had hugely inconsistent amounts of caffeine (like by an order of magnitude) due to quality control issues or something, so it's not like they were actually putting levels of caffeine in the lemonade that would normally be considered unsafe. It just has a lot of caffeine even by energy drink standards, and people might not have realized that it had caffeine at all, so people like elderly people with heart conditions who were trying not to consume caffeine at all would drink 2, accidentally consuming the equivalent of 8 coffees or whatever, and Panera did legitimately gently caress up by not warning people. I'm not sure why they felt it would be a good idea to sell this at all, but I just don't think the issue is that caffeine has a "narrowly defined survivable dose" and they exceeded that. It's not like selling a pain killer that has 100x the normal amount of acetaminophen. It's more like the mcdonalds case where the problem wasn't so much that it's inherently unsafe to give people boiling liquids as that people wouldn't normally expect their coffee to still be boiling temperature and they failed to warn people. mystes has a new favorite as of 18:24 on Dec 9, 2023 |
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Dec 9, 2023 18:10
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Uhvoborn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5UkA2Gg-Cc
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Dec 9, 2023 18:13
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We still had to use Tolkein's edition of Gawain and the Green Knight as an English set text at Cambridge twenty years ago. It's probably on the list even today, because nothing changes there. The LOTR books are middle-English fan fiction in-jokes which take themselves too seriously, with a primary intended audience of monocled academics, and that's ok.
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Dec 9, 2023 18:55
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mind the walrus posted:preciousness 
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Dec 9, 2023 18:58
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CuriousSymptoms posted:We still had to use Tolkein's edition of Gawain and the Green Knight as an English set text at Cambridge twenty years ago. It's probably on the list even today, because nothing changes there. The LOTR books are middle-English fan fiction in-jokes which take themselves too seriously, with a primary intended audience of monocled academics, and that's ok. Yes, I'm aware that I'm taking marketing too seriously. That's not why I'm saying it.
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Dec 9, 2023 19:05
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mystes posted:That's really not true. The LD50 of caffeine is insanely high compared to quantities you're normally going to encounter in drinks. Well friend, the amount in it was in fact enough to kill people. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen or been involved in a commercial liquid plant. I have. Even consulted for a while regarding plant automation. These are facilities that bottle everything from juice to boxed wine to soda all based on contract “recipes”. If you buy ocean spray cran more than a few hundred miles away they are probably created at two different, independently owned and operated facilities. Its all completely recipe based and contracted out. Panera does not own a “lemonade factory” somewhere. They specify every ingredient to precision amounts and sub it. Also things don’t just manifest into things. That caffeine was in there and they were aware. If I can be deeply cynical about it they probably put it there for sales related purposes and people should be held to account. There is zero chance that the facts lead to “huh, well I’ll be. Turns out a demonstrably lethal amount of caffeine just poofed in there. Gotta go, earnings call” Basic Poster has a new favorite as of 19:29 on Dec 9, 2023 |
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Dec 9, 2023 19:27
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maybe those hearts just enjoyed panera so much they knew nothing more could compare and exploded in despair
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Dec 9, 2023 19:33
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mystes posted:That's really not true. The LD50 of caffeine is insanely high compared to quantities you're normally going to encounter in drinks. The problem isn't the ld50, it's the transition from ld0 to ld greater than 0 when dealing with a consumer population in the 7 digits. Could be the LD0.0001 and it'd still be a number of dead people This turns out to have been the case, thus the news
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Dec 9, 2023 19:35
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not dying is a skill issue
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Dec 9, 2023 19:36
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Basic Poster posted:Also things don’t just manifest into things. That caffeine was in there and they were aware. If I can be deeply cynical about it they probably put it there for sales related purposes and people should be held to account. There is zero chance that the facts lead to “huh, well I’ll be. Turns out a demonstrably lethal amount of caffeine just poofed in there. Gotta go, earnings call” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IPMipknNrU The issue was that the high level of the caffeine was labelled but not in a way that people necessarily noticed and this was an issue that people had been aware of for years.  I believe they made it slightly more visible after that, but still not in the form of an attention-grabing warning. If you want to claim that the issue is that the drink had uneven levels of caffeine due to manufacturing issues and a higher level "poofed in there" feel free but as far as I'm aware you are literally the only person making that claim. Everyone else seems to agree on the basic facts that it was a lemonade that was intended to have a lot of caffeine and did have the large amount of caffeine it was intended to have, but which people were drinking without realizing that fact. If someone with a heart condition who was avoiding caffeine chugged 4 5-hour energies and died, probably nobody would say that 5 hour energy should be taken off the market because of that. If someone with a heart condition who was avoiding caffeine chugged 8 cups of coffee and died, probably nobody would say that coffee should be taken off the market because of that. The difference is that 5-hour energy is obviously a product that is high in caffeine whereas lemonade at panera is not mystes has a new favorite as of 19:45 on Dec 9, 2023 |
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Dec 9, 2023 19:39
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Also to be fair if you are drinking a giant cup of lemonade you know it’s killing you anyway, if slower. Lemonade has a poo poo ton of sugar. It ideally shouldn’t be drunk in huge cups whether caffeinated or not. If you’re drinking multiple huge cups of lemonade you are drinking hundreds of grams of sugar. The charged lemonade has 105 grams of loving processed sugar in a thirty ounce cup! four of those a day multiple days a week (like that lady in the viral video) and you are taking in kilograms of added simple sugars on the regular! How the gently caress would anyone survive that even without the caffeine? It’s absolutely insane to ever drink even one whole one of those lemonades much less slam them down in sequence
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Dec 9, 2023 20:23
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The problem is they put a shitload of caffeine in a fuckin lemonade. No one expects caffeine in lemonade, especially not like the equivalent of two energy drinks' worth. If you're a person who knows they should avoid caffeine for health reasons then you order the lemonade. There was probably a huge sampling bias of caffeine-intolerant people drinking this poo poo because other people would be getting coke or a coffee or whatever other normally caffeinated drinks that have significantly less caffeine.  other memes       Not memes but they reminded me of the exact dynamic my parents have so posting anyway:   Also not a meme but I got a good laugh out of it because I'd just been reading about some of the hosed up unethical poo poo they did in the 70s: https://i.imgur.com/WFKl80l.mp4
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Dec 9, 2023 20:26
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bike tory posted:
This video has been the only file on my desktop all week, I watch it like my chronicles of riddick vhs
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Dec 9, 2023 20:32
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bike tory posted:Not memes but they reminded me of the exact dynamic my parents have so posting anyway: Honestly, my local Kroger's clearance cheese section can be loving awesome.
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Dec 9, 2023 20:55
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cult_hero posted:Honestly, my local Kroger's clearance cheese section can be loving awesome. Kroger sucks generally but man do I like the swanky cheese section
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Dec 9, 2023 20:59
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I was afraid this was going to end with "btw those were all real lol"
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Dec 9, 2023 21:11
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mystes posted:If you want to claim that the issue is that the drink had uneven levels of caffeine due to manufacturing issues and a higher level "poofed in there" feel free but as far as I'm aware you are literally the only person making that claim. Not saying that at all. I said the opposite. That the caffeine was intentionally added via production recipe and the decision to do so was for the worst possible reason (money) and that caused people to die.
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Dec 9, 2023 21:14
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Ok
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Dec 9, 2023 21:18
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But go ahead and continue to solutioneer innocence for JAB holdings. That seems like a worthwhile thing to do with your saturday.
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Dec 9, 2023 21:19
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Cool
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Dec 9, 2023 21:21
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mystes posted:I was afraid this was going to end with "btw those were all real lol" Nah, if they were really 50s experiments, they’d all somehow be tied to nuclear weapons development.
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Dec 9, 2023 21:24
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Basic Poster posted:Not saying that at all. I said the opposite. That the caffeine was intentionally added via production recipe and the decision to do so was for the worst possible reason (money) and that caused people to die. Basic Poster posted:But go ahead and continue to solutioneer innocence for JAB holdings. That seems like a worthwhile thing to do with your saturday. PYF Memes: The Lemonade that Kills You and pisses people off
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Dec 9, 2023 21:33
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Real quick, what are the sides here, “don’t care about Panera or its quarterly” vs “have Panera in weekly rotation and don’t want to imagine it suddenly turning into a Verizon store”
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Dec 9, 2023 21:36
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fartknocker posted:Nah, if they were really 50s experiments, they’d all somehow be tied to nuclear weapons development. Jerkin' off that one dolphin for next gen hydrogen bombs
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Dec 9, 2023 21:36
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bike tory posted:The problem is they put a shitload of caffeine in a fuckin lemonade. No one expects caffeine in lemonade, especially not like the equivalent of two energy drinks' worth. If you're a person who knows they should avoid caffeine for health reasons then you order the lemonade. There was probably a huge sampling bias of caffeine-intolerant people drinking this poo poo because other people would be getting coke or a coffee or whatever other normally caffeinated drinks that have significantly less caffeine. iirc, the amount of caffeine in the drink WAS labeled, but it just said "390mg of caffeine" or whatever and that's completely meaningless to most people so they didn't think twice about it or how much they were consuming. If someone knew they should avoid caffeine they probably did, but I imagine a lot of people with heart issues don't even know it and this was a really bad way to find out
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Dec 9, 2023 21:58
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Basic Poster posted:Well friend, the amount in it was in fact enough to kill people. Why do you hate freedom?
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Dec 9, 2023 22:14
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Imagine getting all worked up over some caffeiney lemonade instead of drinking seventeen cups of tea every day     
Bogmonster has a new favorite as of 22:22 on Dec 9, 2023 |
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Dec 9, 2023 22:20
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 I recommend this: 
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Dec 9, 2023 22:46
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The best Christmas movie is Better Off Dead.
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Dec 9, 2023 23:06
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Data Graham posted:Real quick, what are the sides here, “don’t care about Panera or its quarterly” vs “have Panera in weekly rotation and don’t want to imagine it suddenly turning into a Verizon store”
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Dec 9, 2023 23:18
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Basic Poster posted:Well friend, the amount in it was in fact enough to kill people. What do you think LD50 means? It does not mean "this kills everyone who drinks it", or "this might kill someone, if you find the right person", it means "this kills 50% of people who drink it". The statement is simply that the LD50 of caffeine is extremely high. That's all. There are outliers, for whom caffeine is much more dangerous at lower concentrations. But it isn't the case that half of everyone who has one of the lemonades has a heart attack and dies. People are pointing out that the amount of caffeine in the lemonade is high but not actually high enough to threaten the life of the majority of people. That's all. Absolutely nobody is saying that nobody has died, that Panera are blameless, or that nothing should be done. Hyperlynx has a new favorite as of 23:29 on Dec 9, 2023 |
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Dec 9, 2023 23:26
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freeedr posted:I recommend this: I;m thinking about thos bairns
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Dec 9, 2023 23:32
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Dec 9, 2023 23:35
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Living with Nathen Mazri will do that     
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Dec 9, 2023 23:39
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So what were the fads of the 60s or 80s or 2000s that I was excited about but died an untimely death, and the smarter old people were just smiling and patiently waiting them out because they recognized them as the short-lived stupid ideas they were? I can't remember. (As opposed to the genuinely good advances that the old people of the day dismissed as idiotic but missed the boat on, like the Internet or Mario Intendo)
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Dec 9, 2023 23:42
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Data Graham posted:So what were the fads of the 60s or 80s or 2000s that I was excited about but died an untimely death, and the smarter old people were just smiling and patiently waiting them out because they recognized them as the short-lived stupid ideas they were? I can't remember. Cargo shorts.
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Dec 9, 2023 23:43
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buying a house
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Dec 9, 2023 23:44
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Your mom.
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Dec 9, 2023 23:46
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(Obviously I ask just to reassure myself that I am not being stupid and out of touch and diving headlong into the grave prematurely by mocking AI)
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Dec 9, 2023 23:47
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