|
What I want to know is, is this a nice lovely ending for the 14th doctor and we never see him again until maybe the next anniversary special or is he going to be hanging around a bit?
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 02:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:21 |
|
|
Confusedslight posted:What I want to know is, is this a nice lovely ending for the 14th doctor and we never see him again until maybe the next anniversary special or is he going to be hanging around a bit? They spend months hyping a new concurrent series about a Doctor nobody expected to see again who is getting his own show, and when it finally starts you get Kate Stewart in trouble calling for the Doctor to come help them. "I'm a Doctor.... but perhaps not the one you were expecting..."
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 02:57
|
|
|
Confusedslight posted:What I want to know is, is this a nice lovely ending for the 14th doctor and we never see him again until maybe the next anniversary special or is he going to be hanging around a bit? I presume that depends on how busy Tennant and Yasmin Finney are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 02:57
|
|
|
Also a good excuse for more BF stories
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 02:58
|
|
|
Rochallor posted:It honestly felt like RTD knowing Moffat's a good enough writer to take it (also I'm reminded of Moffat doing a similar thing to RTD's companions in Let's Kill Hitler), while he treated Chibnall with kid gloves by just following up on the Flux point instead of trying to gently mock him, too. This is how I took it. Like, uh - Moffat and RTD can both wear their big boy pants and they have stuff to be proud of. But Chibnall made actively terrible television on the whole and that's just not fun to tease about.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
Toymaker dancing in the street among all the carnage was genuinely creepy
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:03
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:Toymaker dancing in the street among all the carnage was genuinely creepy Him turning to look at the Doctor as he's doing it was creepy as hell too, like something out of a horrible dream.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
Throughout all three of these specials, I could just feel RTD absolutely not giving a poo poo and writing whatever came to mind while laughing maniacally about it. And it was unsurprisingly wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:08
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Throughout all three of these specials, I could just feel RTD absolutely not giving a poo poo and writing whatever came to mind while laughing maniacally about it. I think RTD most definitely gave a poo poo while writing whatever came to mind and laughing maniacally about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:16
|
|
|
lines posted:I thought it was a fantastically barbed skewer of the Moffat era, followed by a sort of "??? The flux???" to summarise Chibnall's time, which, fair, yeah. I wouldn't be so sure it was intended to skewer Moffat, RTD has had an interest in probing the Doctor's hypocrisies (Boomtown) and the way he's treated his companions (Journey's End) back in his first run; it's just one of his big interests as a writer. And he does it well -- he's certainly much better at it than when Moffat tried his hand at it (Kovarian's motives never seemed even the least bit justified, even on her own delusional terms), and of course Chibs never even tried in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:17
|
|
|
My only real complaint is the direction could have been tighter for the game of catch. C’mon give us a few wide shots, break out the stunt doubles!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:17
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:I don't think it was a skewer because while the companions lived, the Doctor was never happy with how things turned out. It most definitely was not "all right then", it's just the companion avoided the worst outcome. And it's not like Donna's original ending was great either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:20
|
|
|
God I love Doctor Who so much now. I did before, but I still do.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
Pretty good. lmfao at RTD just dancing all over so much BF continuity with this one (I don't mind though). Thought the pacing flagged after the dance number (which ruled), and the thing with the game of catch was completely arbitrary and bad drama. But that's a consistent problem with Toymaker stories. Lol at the bigeneration meaning that Tennant's clothes were split across the two, meaning plenty of opportunities for the camera to show off Gatwa's legs. Gatwa's fun in the role. Looks like UNIT's being set up for a spinoff, which is fine. Kate is still kind of boring though. The final gag with the tooth was perfect. Random Stranger posted:It was worse than that. Rosa (the episode) used the childish, white washed version of the story that made it more palatable and reduces the civil rights movement to a singular moment in the 1950s instead of the more than a century long ongoing struggle that it was. It's a very "and then racism was over" story like the kind that you saw a lot a couple of decades ago; racism is reduced to a lone weirdo who time traveled to stop one protest and Rosa Parks was eventually recognized by Bill Clinton so there's no more problems there! I mean, it's very explicitly not this. Ryan and Yaz have a whole conversation about how poo poo things still are, and Josh Bowman obviously got socialised somehow. Gaz-L posted:(I actually like Bill and her gf going off and being Alex Mack Space Lesbians together but it definitely sounds like a bad excuse from the Doctor) If you go back and watch The Pilot, Heather's actually got a completely different personality after dying. She stops being a person and becomes the ship. The finale tries to play it like it's some sort of good thing, but as far as I can tell Bill's personality was similarly absorbed by a blob alien.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
Did a rewatch, amazing, but also something I missed the first time So bi-regeneration, how does that nonsense work? Cause I can understand the "It cheapens Gatwa's run by having 2 Doctors" camps perspective. Looking like at some point 14 will regenerate 'normally' into 15, or 15 gains access to 14's memories as he heals himself mentally, or 15 gets the memories when 14 dies, or whatever. At some point - however that happens - there is a firm delineation between the 2, which I think is an important aspect of the Doctor as a character. 14 heals, so 15 gets a clean start (with minimal baggage for the soft reboot)
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:45
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:My only real complaint is the direction could have been tighter for the game of catch. C’mon give us a few wide shots, break out the stunt doubles! Apparently Ncuti could never catch the ball so he's palming the ball in every shot
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:45
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:My only real complaint is the direction could have been tighter for the game of catch. C’mon give us a few wide shots, break out the stunt doubles! There were a lot of close ups generally... like so much of the Toymaker's realm is shot in close shots and doesn't take much advantage of the stage set, or showing Harris playing with the marionettes, once the dolls get on Donna it's all shot piecemeal too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:53
|
|
|
Release the soundtrack  Absolutely loved the chaotic theme at the start, and the Toymaker's music was great (and the spice was nice as well)
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:53
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:Release the soundtrack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONkZSnEQY8s
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 03:58
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:Did a rewatch, amazing, but also something I missed the first time It's oddly undefined in a way that does feel like they wanted to leave it open for Tennant to come back. My best reading is that it's a bit wibbly wobbly. 15 is the next Doctor, and has all of 14s memories and the emotional growth that comes from taking a break, but doesn't necessarily have those memories yet, because they haven't happened to 14 yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 04:01
|
|
|
Was that the most non-revival continuity RTD has ever had in one of his stories?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 04:08
|
|
|
my god that was good. what a loving episode. honestly felt bigger/more significant than the 50th. favourite scene would have to be the lip-sync dance number. how nph exits that scene was just 😽 ncuti just radiates doctorness. i was expecting only a few seconds of him, so getting to see him interacting with david was just 💜 these are going to be the longest drat two weeks. hfs does the christmas special look fun. ncuti gatwa makes me wish i was into blokes. genuinely jealous of y'all androphiles.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 04:21
|
|
|
Delightful! Really looking forward to more Gatwa! What a fun Doctor already! I remember when this was first posted people were very down on it. I knew they were wrong then, and I hope now that we've heard it in its proper context everyone else can plainly see that too. dingo with a joint posted:ncuti gatwa makes me wish i was into blokes. genuinely jealous of y'all androphiles. I find it hard to imagine anyone not appreciating Ncuti Gatwa in that way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 04:27
|
|
|
I find it funny the subtitles start calling Tennant the 10th Doctor after the regeneration scene
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 04:28
|
|
|
The captions referred to Tennant’s Doctor as Tenth Doctor. I am vindicated for calling him 10-2 and not 14.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:04
|
|
|
I kinda want to make a final fantasy joke related to that but I'm not clever for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:11
|
|
|
Doctor Who owns Doctor Whowns
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:21
|
|
|
Three companions who all met horrible, but bittersweet ends. What about the 13th Doctor? Uhh I dunno, the Flux? Let's go with that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:29
|
|
|
Yannick_B posted:According to the original podcast & the in-vision commentary, Russell T Davies offers that not only the 14th Doctor bigenerated but EVERY other Doctor did in some sort of time-loop, explaining that the older 5,6 and 7th Doctors from Tales of The Tardis are all bi-generated Doctors. Now that is fanwanking I can get behind.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:37
|
|
|
Harlock posted:Three companions who all met horrible, but bittersweet ends. All of 13's companions effectively got 'good' endings (Though Grace dying in the 1st ep is a bit of a downer) Literally half the universe being destroyed is probably the bigger ball of guilt, all things being equal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:44
|
|
|
Harlock posted:Three companions who all met horrible, but bittersweet ends. Also Rory gets let out of the conversation for companion which is a shame. My guess is that RTD had to tell the Beeb fine, I will keep David around in case you all get cold feet but has no real intention on leaning on it. The way I look at it is that if you come up with a cool story to unify everything, great use it. Otherwise, the Doctor is healing from the 2005 NuWho run and is NuerWhoing now. also, I thought I was tired and misheard the Master/Gold Tooth thing but lol nope. NuWho is dead. Long live NuWho!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 05:49
|
|
|
NuNuWHo
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:04
|
|
|
I really appreciate how NPH played the Toymaker like every accent he used was "put on" and not natural, because he himself isn't natural and he's always playing a part. I also appreciated the "Kate strides straight towards Fourteen and maybe she's about to slap him in the face but instead she gives him a big hug" moment. Rochallor posted:Bi-generation is absurd and I think it's really silly there's just another Tennant and TARDIS out there (the second TARDIS is really pushing it!) but I do love RTD going full fanwank on the idea. I suppose the original Ten-2 was just a pre-manifestation of that then? And the Curator as well? And David Bradley oh god how deep does this rabbithole go Bi-generation is really a huge gift that sorts out all sorts of things and creates a lot of new opportunities. And it isn't any better or worse nonsense related to regeneration than, say, the K'anpo/Cho-ge thing or Four and the Watcher or Romana's "select-a-body" regeneration (not to mention the Valeyard). If it means every future regeneration involves a scene where the new Doctor gets to give a big hug to the old Doctor, I'm all for it. What a great moment. There's always been many other TARDISes out there (or at least, on Gallifrey), so the only change is that this one is the "real" TARDIS. But it's a time-space machine that can be in multiple space-time positions simultaneously while being the same device, so having two separate Doctors who each have their own TARDIS is quite literally the default condition. The only difference is that possibly it's easier for them to co-exist than it used to be. It really does look like RTD is doubling down on Chibnall's ideas while driving them in directions that he finds interesting: Flux leaving 50% of the universe vacant opens up two possibilities, that of something out there in the void that suddenly wakes up, but also space for nothing/something to potentially expand into. If the Toymaker isn't alone and the show is embracing myth more fully, then we're getting "the Land of Fiction colonizes the real world" coupled with the possibility of developing or bringing back myths like the old series vampires (or Fendahl?), and there's a non-zero chance that RTD can fit the Timeless Child into the structure, either by having the Doctor originate in the universe that the Toymaker comes from (fiction that became real; this has been suggested in the past) or by making that origin, itself, a myth that crept into the world to fill in space that had already been opened up. The idea that the Time Lords themselves are no longer a distinct group of people from a single planet but rather a huge mythic thing that overwrote the actual people who once existed is the kind of mad idea that opens up lots of room to tell stories without being bothered by all the things RTD obviously isn't that bothered by. I will be very happy if we get a The Three Masters episode at some stage. Delgado first appeared on-screen in Jan 2, 1971, so we missed the 50th, but it's an idea whose time could have come.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:05
|
|
|
God, that loving ruled. I don't think I have much to say that hasn't already been said but god drat that was good and I'm so excited for more. I already love 15. I love that they let the Doctor just have some space to just be happy and have a family. I love found family stories so it was such a delightful twist. I'm so happy it was with Donna and her family too. My favorite Doctor and my favorite companion (and their family!) getting to go on whatever adventures they want is just so nice. God, I'm so happy right now. Only thing I could have wanted to be different was more of the Toymaker. Feels like we didn't get enough of him to really feel the stakes of what was going on, and like, I get that it isn't really the point of the episode but I just wanted more of Neil Patrick Harris being extremely extra and camp as gently caress. The whole musical number scene with him making petal angels was a goddamn work of art. And just exploding some dudes into balls. "He's dead. I'm sorry." Just 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:06
|
|
|
65th Anniversary idea; The Three Davids. 10, 14, and Metacrisis
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:11
|
|
|
Don't forget ol handy
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:17
|
|
|
"Oh, und Rory, her husband. He also died, ja?" *snip* "Yeah, well. He did that a lot. He got better!" "Well, that's alright then!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:17
|
|
|
We're definitely in a universe now where myth and superstition are real. Why else would UNIT place the Toy maker's box in the deepest vault in SALT
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
Well, now we know why Adric asked for sodium chloride. He wasn't being a smug little poo poo, he was trying to avoid invoking the Toymaker.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:21 |
|
|
jisforjosh posted:We're definitely in a universe now where myth and superstition are real. Why else would UNIT place the Toy maker's box in the deepest vault in SALT Yeah I kinda love where this might be going. RTD taking the Flux and having the Doctor essentially doing an incantation at the end of the universe, which causes all kinds of unforeseen fuckery. It’s basically a license to do whatever (not that the show hasn’t done that anyway, but hey).
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:29
|
|