|
Miniloaders are unique in that, which specifically allows them to load trains without anything weird. Loader Redux uses the belt and container logic, but shoehorns in a Lua evaluation if you use them to load trains wagons. So long as you only use loaders on static structures Loader Redux will always result in a more UPS efficient base.
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 00:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:49 |
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Miniloaders are unique in that, which specifically allows them to load trains without anything weird. Loader Redux uses the belt and container logic, but shoehorns in a Lua evaluation if you use them to load trains wagons. That should actually be gone now! Vanilla loaders were updated to work with cargo wagons in Factorio patch 1.1.75 back in June (one of the devs was apparently playing K2 and wanted to load trains with them, and just made it happen). The Loader Redux mod seems to have been updated at that time to remove the custom train logic (in mod version 1.9.0). The only advantage miniloaders still have now is that you can set filters on them with circuits; vanilla loaders still can't do that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
No one reading this has to care about UPS unless you *know* you have to care about UPS. 10x as many people "plan" a megabase than actually get it big enough to matter, which is already a vanishingly small subset of people who play even the harder mods (space exploration, seablock, krastorio). Unless you're running on a potato, and a baked one at that, it's just theorycrafting. The game is so insanely optimized that building for UPS is not worth considering, like, at all. Miniloaders are fine.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 01:53
|
|
|
Bhodi posted:No one reading this has to care about UPS unless you *know* you have to care about UPS. 10x as many people "plan" a megabase than actually get it big enough to matter, which is already a vanishingly small subset of people who play even the harder mods (space exploration, seablock, krastorio). Unless you're running on a potato, and a baked one at that, it's just theorycrafting. The game is so insanely optimized that building for UPS is not worth considering, like, at all. Miniloaders are fine. nobody is saying new players should design around UPS efficiency from the ground up. you start doing it when you hit the point where you go below 60
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 02:10
|
|
|
Loaders Redux looks better anyway 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 06:49
|
|
|
Factorio is a solved game, like tic tac toe, or doom. The only thing we can do is iterate strategies for UPS effeciency over megabase speedruns. - some factorio speedrunner with 20k hours, probably
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 10:41
|
|
|
if you're playing on the switch or deck UPS gets relevant a lot sooner
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 14:00
|
|
|
It's amazing that they got it working as well as it does on the switch and on the deck but after playing like 5 hours on the deck... not the best way to interact with the game
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 14:16
|
|
|
the guy who hosts our game has a 2nd or 3rd Gen ryzen CPU, and our nullius base has been floating between 30-50 ups for a long time. and while the base is huge, it is not a megabase in the sense that we beat the game and are just building bigger for the sake of it. we are still slowly going through the tech tree. we aren't even close to done. the slow update speed is painful enough that we started using console commands to increase character walk speed to compensate
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 21:11
|
|
|
Alright, I need to figure out how to use some logic in the game. I have two pipes. Left comes from oilfields, right comes from Pulverizers. I want to use the pulverized oil first, and when that pipe can't supply enough, only then draw from the other pipe. Is that simple enough.. or should I solve this in some other way? :F
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 17:40
|
|
|
The easiest solution for that is to use a tank and a pump wired to it from the oilfield that only works if it’s less than some amount, say 5k. Use a pump from the pulverizers as well to prevent crude from flowing back into the pipes between them and the tank, but no circuit so that recycled crude is always being fed into the empty space left by the other pump. You can wire combinators and a speaker to the tank, too, to alert you to a buildup of crude which will eventually lead to your pulverizers shutting down.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 17:48
|
|
|
Simplest way to do that is with a tank. Have the priority pump insert into the tank normally. Then have the second pump also insert into the tank, and wired to the tank to only pump while the contents are smaller then 10k or something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 17:50
|
|
|
The usual way is to put a tank after the pumps that both pumps pump into, then wire the tank to the lower priority pump and set a condition of [liquid] < 10k; the higher-priority pump just always runs. If the higher-priority pump is pushing more fluid than can be processed, the tank will fill and the lower-priority pump will turn off
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 17:50
|
|
|
lol it’s the knee reflex hammer of questions
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 17:51
|
|
|
Ohhhh priority pumps, clever. I would have cludged it with two tanks, the output pump on the secondary only turning on when the primary tank was low. TIL.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 18:34
|
|
|
That would work perfectly fine too! Priority consumption of byproducts to keep things moving is a really common design problem posed by mods which expand Factorio, and like everything in the game setting it up for solid products is more intuitive than with fluids. LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 18:41
|
|
|
Thanks. Perhaps like this. When crude oil is less than 10k, the pump activates. Otherwise it is disabled. I connected it with a wire to the tank.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 21:01
|
|
|
WELL I launched my first rocket ever. I launched a second one just to celebrate! Then I realized I need to add satellites to them, for them to have any effect. And I need to build the satellites... yes.. one satellite requires god knows what, and the rocket must be built too. One rocket launch with satellite yields 100 satellite telemetry, so I need 3 rocket launches with satellites to research... ONE.. tech. Welp. I need to scale up the operations. So far oil seems to be the limiting factor. I need tons of rocket fuel, and I'm all out of oil Two oil fields and a core miner apparently means nothing, I need more miners and oil fields... I need dozens of rockets.. probably hundreds... for the telemetry... and sicence... I need to launch 10 more rockets to beeline to Umbrellas, which protect the planet from Carrington events. I have like 12 hours left, so should not be a big deal. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
Over the weekend I managed to get There is No Spoon and today I got Lazy Bastard. Only six more achievements to go before I have them all, but most of them are the produce mass quantities of stuff. While the base I have is good, I don't think I want to essentially idle to finish them off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 23:47
|
|
|
Everything but green chips is a reasonable amount of growing the factory. Getting to a rate of chips that'll remove idling from 20m greens is some aggressively setting up outposts and trains across 2-3 times the average megabase scale. If you wanted to read a book or something with the game open then produce a bulk green chip factory blueprint, tile it to tedium/output limits and set up steel chests to fill. Make a safety save and load it once a day for an hour, then don't save and repeat later. Will get you the green chip nonsense in a week or two depending on scale.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 00:21
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:Everything but green chips is a reasonable amount of growing the factory. Getting to a rate of chips that'll remove idling from 20m greens is some aggressively setting up outposts and trains across 2-3 times the average megabase scale. With enough research in mining efficiency so that the ore patches will last, this build would get the achievement in just over 10 hours. The ore inputs could always be replaced by train stations also, but this location just had so darned much ore that I belted it all locally.  Those output belts are doubled blue, so it's producing 12 blue lanes of green circuits or 45 x 12 = 540 per second, 32,400 per minute. The trick is making sure you have enough trains to haul it all away to maintain full output, and of course somewhere for the trains to put it all. Since my mega-base runs tend to run a whole lot longer than 10 hours, it's more about consumption of the chips than the production. I usually consume a ridiculous amount making T3 modules, and of course making 2700 SPM or more consumes a bunch also (I haven't done the math).
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 00:37
|
|
|
I spent the majority of my hours in this game before a lot of the current QoL features were added, like auto-placing undergrounds when you drag a belt past obstacles. So I was rather annoyed when I discovered that this applies to blueprinted belts too, and setting up compact miners just became twice as fast. I even made an extra copy of my usual blueprint to exclude the belt, for hand building, so it just has the power poles (which you can drag and it will only place over the blueprinted poles) and miners, and then I can just drag a belt through the middle and it puts all the undergrounds down. So then I tested this on my green circuit blueprint, which isn't the most friendly to hand build due to the undergrounds, and found out it will even smartly place the undergrounds across gaps that have obstacles on either side. The output belts coming out of the GC assemblers onto the central belts here. This only works if you place the vertical belts first; dragging the iron belt across the ghost belts just obliterates them. But it made this whole thing a lot easier to hand-build, which is good considering it's an early game build.  I'm also futureproofing here; this design fits around my global roboport grid, and when upgraded to red belts each lane will produce a full red belt of green chips from 1.5 belts of copper and 1 belt of iron. The 6-to-8 copper splitter lets me feed the whole thing from 6 dedicated copper lanes.  I could future-proof it even more by leaving room for a blue belt upgrade but by that point I'd want to tear it out and replace with moduled builds instead anyway. Although I'm not sure why I'm so concerned with over-futureproofing this base. I'm 15 hours in and just got red and green science automated.  This is intended to run with red belts eventually and will consume 3.25 belts of iron, half a belt of copper, and 1 belt of green chips to produce a fully saturated 50/50 belt of red and green science (900/minute).  I did some math and figured out that without modules/beacons, and lab research speed 4 (the last one that's red/green/blue tech), I would need 375 labs to consume all those packs on a 60 second tech. That's 15 lanes of 25 labs; I did some more math and it seems that with stack inserter capacity 2, fast inserters can support a line of labs about 27 deep on 60 second techs. That nicely fit into one of my city blocks.  You might ask why I'm building my starter base at such a large scale. Well, I'm playing with 10x tech cost. Blue science is next. You'd think at this scale it would need a ridiculous amount of iron relative to the red+green, and if you count all the inputs that is true. But I'm handling steel separately (and only half a red belt needed; 5 yellow belts of ore is enough for that), and the green chips are also coming from a separate ore source - so after excluding those, you only need 2 dedicated (red) belts of iron plates for 900/min blue science. The oil, on the other hand, is probably a problem. I need close to 600 crude oil per second.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
Ihmemies posted:Thanks. Perhaps like this. When crude oil is less than 10k, the pump activates. Otherwise it is disabled. I connected it with a wire to the tank. Also the telemetry isn't as bad as you think because one telemetry turns into 8 science, even without productivity bonuses.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 03:34
|
|
|
Darox posted:It's a good thing you learned this now because it's going to be a lot more relevant in space with at least three different space fluids needing this kind of top-off system. Oh, heh. Then I just need more oil, time to tap every visible oilfield in the map.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 08:03
|
|
|
Friday Facts #389 - Train control improvements https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-389  Looks like TSM is completely unnecessary now
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 13:06
|
|
|
Wow. that poo poo is going to rule
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 13:20
|
|
|
Looks fairly elegant to me. The thing that really stands out to me is that it seems like it will be easier rather than more difficult for new players to step through new phases of learning to use trains. Also, sounds like maybe one of the new planets will have some sort of environmental emergency condition where your trains need to go hide sometimes it something like that? K8.0 fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Dec 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 13:29
|
|
|
It always shocks me how elegantly they handle the solution to some problems. This is another case of that. Exciting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 15:03
|
|
|
And at this point the 2.0 feature upgrades without any space stuff would be worth a DLC purchase no doubt. I hope they add a pretty large price tag for it overall because they'll have earned it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 15:08
|
|
|
Tamba posted:Friday Facts #389 - Train control improvements YES Also really looking forward to train groups. It'll make things much easier to change over all of the trains from an empty mining outpost to a new one. Also makes it easy to track just how many trains you have doing a certain thing if they're all in one group. (You could just look what trains use a station, but I like this better.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 15:28
|
|
|
So we've got elevated rail, smoother turns, and now train logistics in vanilla. Plus they say more improvements to announce. Do we dare to dream of some kind of FARL equivalent? All you'd need is a new locomotive or wagon with an equipment grid, really. It would make sense given the focus on remote management.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 15:37
|
|
|
Tamba posted:Friday Facts #389 - Train control improvements     TRAINSTRAINSTRAINSTRAINS
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Dec 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 17:40
|
|
|
The question is does this make the train scheduling system Turing Complete.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 17:56
|
|
|
Tamba posted:Friday Facts #389 - Train control improvements The only thing that is missing is priorities, which to be fair I've only used like twice in a whole megabase, and that was just to ensure ingredient flow. For example, I had all my oil products delivered by trains (because pipes annoy me when scaled up) and I used priorities to make sure Lube station would get heavy oil before the Heavy Oil Cracking station did.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 18:15
|
|
|
Anyone have a good write up or is there a good LP of a Bob’s Angels run? I’m hitting mid game with some actual momentum, but I feel like I’m also hitting a complexity brick wall and need some inspiration on what direction to go.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 18:20
|
|
|
I think that’s another Train Groups, Train Control Symbols, auto-train painting. Teledahn fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 18:56
|
|
|
Solumin posted:The only thing that is missing is priorities, which to be fair I've only used like twice in a whole megabase, and that was just to ensure ingredient flow. For example, I had all my oil products delivered by trains (because pipes annoy me when scaled up) and I used priorities to make sure Lube station would get heavy oil before the Heavy Oil Cracking station did. You could put both delivery stations in the list and use an interrupt to return for more oil when empty. The train would only deliver to the second station when the first was full up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
Gadzuko posted:You could put both delivery stations in the list and use an interrupt to return for more oil when empty. The train would only deliver to the second station when the first was full up. This could also be easily done with setting the train limit based on the volume in storage at the drop off depot. Station 1 reduces it's train limit to 1 or 0 when local storage is full Station 2 always accepts trains Just need to make sure you have sufficient supply (and trains). Teledahn fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Dec 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 19:27
|
|
|
Tamba posted:Friday Facts #389 - Train control improvements Inject it right into my veins
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 19:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 00:49 |
|
|
Teledahn posted:This could also be easily done with setting the train limit based on the volume in storage at the drop off depot. Right, I think you can close the gap with signals. Some people also prefer pull logistics, which I think is also doable with signals.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 20:19
|
|