Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

d64 posted:

Bloomberg reports that Russia's oil revenue in October, 11.3 billion dollars, was higher than during any of the twelve months before the start of the invasion.

Ukraine needs to start sinking tankers that dock in Russian ports.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010

Volmarias posted:

You don't have to like something to consider it as a possibility. There's a lot of things happening right now that are likely to develop into dangerous bullshit, but I can't just pretend they aren't possible.

Either I don't get what you're trying to say, or you didn't understand me.

To turn this conflict into a lasting stalemate, Ukraine would need more supplies. To give them a chance at winning in the long term, they'd need even more.

At current levels, Russia will attrit Ukraine and take more territory eventually. If negotiations happen under these circumstances, they will be about de facto capitulation, not peace or ceasefire.

The people who think they can lean back and wait for negotiations because there's a stalemate now are completely and utterly wrong.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Collapsing Farts posted:

Russia recently called in another 170.000 men as well so they are having some issues with manpower

They changed the number of people they can have in the military. They haven't done the callups to fill those new, empty billets yet.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
There's really strange tg post from Kadyrov from a couple of days ago. He posted a video where Chechen soldiers destroy a 'communication tower'... in the Belgorod region for some reason?

quote:

[Akhmat-West] left the enemy without comms by hitting a repeater tower in the Belgorod region with a precision salvo.
[...]
The enemy was deprived of communication abilities and the couldn't call for reinforcements. This allowed our fighters to quickly seize the initiative and quickly destroy the enemy.



At first I thought that maybe it was a typo, but the post's been up for a while now. There are no recent reports of incursions into Belgorod either. It doesn't look like anything that Ukrainians could build quickly, or indeed, something they would even need for communication.

It's stupid, but are they just blowing up random towers within Russia for tiktok cred now?

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
EW systems, radars, comms relays, etc. are often put on towers. Who knows why Kadyrov would shoot a Russian tower, though.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Ynglaur posted:

Ukraine needs to start sinking tankers that dock in Russian ports.

That would be a pretty major escalation. It’s something that would also have major repercussions for other countries. The Baltic terminals would be a big no no. Several of the pacific ports could also be problematic

Something like the Siberia 1 gas pipeline is a better target.

The Question IRL
Jun 8, 2013

Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

Paladinus posted:

There's really strange tg post from Kadyrov from a couple of days ago. He posted a video where Chechen soldiers destroy a 'communication tower'... in the Belgorod region for some reason?



At first I thought that maybe it was a typo, but the post's been up for a while now. There are no recent reports of incursions into Belgorod either. It doesn't look like anything that Ukrainians could build quickly, or indeed, something they would even need for communication.

It's stupid, but are they just blowing up random towers within Russia for tiktok cred now?

Maybe it's just the low picture quality, but that looks like it's a screenshot from a Fallout game.
Like the image looks completely artificial.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
Foggy, blurry, low contrast bullshit? I guess I can see what you mean.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
There was a video with dramatic music.
https://www.yapfiles.ru/files/3040600/a2bad48123284892d706d345b317d9d5.mp4?hq=1&token=MDMwNDA2MDAtMTcwMTk3NDkzNg

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009

d64 posted:

Bloomberg reports that Russia's oil revenue in October, 11.3 billion dollars, was higher than during any of the twelve months before the start of the invasion.

Any idea how this happened? Like I thought Russia lost most of the European market for oil so is it just being made up for by India and China?

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009

LRADIKAL posted:

Foggy, blurry, low contrast bullshit? I guess I can see what you mean.

It was poo poo with a drone and if you've ever seen drone videos from this war they all look like that.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Paladinus posted:

There's really strange tg post from Kadyrov from a couple of days ago. He posted a video where Chechen soldiers destroy a 'communication tower'... in the Belgorod region for some reason?



At first I thought that maybe it was a typo, but the post's been up for a while now. There are no recent reports of incursions into Belgorod either. It doesn't look like anything that Ukrainians could build quickly, or indeed, something they would even need for communication.

It's stupid, but are they just blowing up random towers within Russia for tiktok cred now?

Commenting on anything stupid posted by Kadyrov seems like a waste of time, but...

- maybe he has a different understanding of how far the oblast extends, just like Putin has misunderstood where the external borders of Russia lay?

- it might also be meant to mean that they are at the very border between Russia and Ukraine, Kadyrovites in Belgorod oblast and the target inside Ukraine

- one Konkurs or other ATGM is not going to do much of a difference to it unless it hit the electronics square on, congrats on hitting a relatively small target though unless the explosion was added in post process

- since the range of an ATGM is only fourish kilometers, it really begs the question why didn't Russia just drop some 152mm shells on it and not leave anything standing???

Kadyrov's propaganda is the worst. I have doubts that the missile launch and the missile hit segments are of the same event even, but blehhhh...

Tai
Mar 8, 2006

Charliegrs posted:

Any idea how this happened? Like I thought Russia lost most of the European market for oil so is it just being made up for by India and China?

Russia crude oil didn't take much of a hit in revenue so it's very much possible. Most of what Europe bought was pipeline gas and to a lesser extent refined oil products.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Mr. Apollo posted:

I’ve come across several articles this evening that says that Biden is open to “significant concessions” on border security in exchange for getting the Ukraine funding bill passed. So it looks like the funding bill will play out like many people suspected.
https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1732799829401632942

Not soon, and it's really not looking good.

This shouldn't have needed a sweetener in the first place, and tying it to an Israel aid package was supposed to be a sweetener and it's still not sweet enough so now they "want" border security crap added on to it.

The problem is, Republicans don't care about policy right now, they care about this stupid obstructionist showboating crap and sticking it to Joe Biden. In normal times, the cost of doing this would be going back to constituents asking "why didn't you pass this?" but they can 100% get away with not passing anything. "Not passing anything" is pretty much the way they govern anyway. Israel will do just fine without an aid package unless they get embroiled in a regional conflict, and the border security crap looks way more like a poison pill than an important policy objective.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

OneEightHundred posted:

https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1732799829401632942

Not soon, and it's really not looking good.

This shouldn't have needed a sweetener in the first place, and tying it to an Israel aid package was supposed to be a sweetener and it's still not sweet enough so now they "want" border security crap added on to it.

The problem is, Republicans don't care about policy right now, they care about this stupid obstructionist showboating crap and sticking it to Joe Biden. In normal times, the cost of doing this would be going back to constituents asking "why didn't you pass this?" but they can 100% get away with not passing anything. "Not passing anything" is pretty much the way they govern anyway. Israel will do just fine without an aid package unless they get embroiled in a regional conflict, and the border security crap looks way more like a poison pill than an important policy objective.

My guess is biden gives them concessions on border stuff at least for the senate and then we see what happens in the house.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!

Dapper_Swindler posted:

My guess is biden gives them concessions on border stuff at least for the senate and then we see what happens in the house.
My guess is the Senate will come up with a compromise that will die in the House, and the House will continue to blockade Ukraine aid until it gets tied to something that's actually painful for them to vote down, and it's not clear what that would be, especially since it's already split off from the NDAA.

Just bringing up "border security" should be a hint that they want to just kill it because it's pretty well-established that they care way less about reducing illegal immigration than they do about getting mad about Democrats allowing it.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe

Charliegrs posted:

It was poo poo with a drone and if you've ever seen drone videos from this war they all look like that.

I think it's a real drone shot. I'm just dogging on fallout.

Svaha
Oct 4, 2005

If we're talking about demographic problems stemming from casualties of the war, is it not relevant to point out that an estimated three times that number, (around a million,) of mostly conscription age Russians have fled the country to avoid being fed into the meat-grinder?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Svaha posted:

If we're talking about demographic problems stemming from casualties of the war, is it not relevant to point out that an estimated three times that number, (around a million,) of mostly conscription age Russians have fled the country to avoid being fed into the meat-grinder?

Smart of them, but it's mostly the people who could afford to leave. I honestly don't expect they're going to have problems "volunteering" people from gently caress-off nowhere.

Svaha
Oct 4, 2005

Volmarias posted:

Smart of them, but it's mostly the people who could afford to leave. I honestly don't expect they're going to have problems "volunteering" people from gently caress-off nowhere.

I'm sure they won't have trouble finding more meat; Russia will probably be running up against equipment supply problems before they run out of people use it. I'm talking specifically about demographic problems stemming from Russia losing a huge chunk of conscription age middle class people from a cohort that is already pretty thin as illustrated by some of the population pyramids posted above.

I

Svaha fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Dec 7, 2023

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Svaha posted:

I'm sure they won't have trouble finding more meat, but I'm talking specifically about demographic problems stemming from Russia losing a huge chunk of conscription age middle class people.

Ah, that's tomorrow's problem, don't worry!

Svaha
Oct 4, 2005

Volmarias posted:

Ah, that's tomorrow's problem, don't worry!

Is it though? Those people are missing from the Russian economy right now. I guess it's hard to say at what point losing that many people in a specific age bracket starts to have noticeable effects.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

OneEightHundred posted:

My guess is the Senate will come up with a compromise that will die in the House, and the House will continue to blockade Ukraine aid until it gets tied to something that's actually painful for them to vote down, and it's not clear what that would be, especially since it's already split off from the NDAA.

Just bringing up "border security" should be a hint that they want to just kill it because it's pretty well-established that they care way less about reducing illegal immigration than they do about getting mad about Democrats allowing it.

yeah basicaly.

Svaha posted:

If we're talking about demographic problems stemming from casualties of the war, is it not relevant to point out that an estimated three times that number, (around a million,) of mostly conscription age Russians have fled the country to avoid being fed into the meat-grinder?

Yeah, I had a friend of a friend from an art discord who does audio dubs for cartoons is one of those and he got out to turkey after a long time of him going radio silent, havent heard from him lately.

Griefor
Jun 11, 2009

Svaha posted:

Is it though? Those people are missing from the Russian economy right now. I guess it's hard to say at what point losing that many people in a specific age bracket starts to have noticeable effects.

It is an over time effect. The pain of missing them for a shorter period isn't *that* bad, but the reason it is a big problem is that they are never coming back.

I'm sure the effect until now has not been negligible but there's probably other factors (sanctions, war economy) that hurt more for the time being.

Staluigi
Jun 22, 2021

venn diagram of "people who were able to bug out of russia fast by the millions" almost totally encloses the circle of "people with the vital technical skills or advanced qualifications to run a country's economy and infrastructure" so you know that russia's had some insane braindrain

maduro got to explore this issue real reaaaall close when something like 6-7 million venezuelans were just outright abandoning and evacuating the country, and the people who had the easiest time with getting the gently caress out were, you know, anyone who could even know how to restart the country's largest power turbines if they ever shut down for any reason ever without completely destroying them

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




There aren’t many people that can start a truly cold power plant even in the US.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Bar Ran Dun posted:

There aren’t many people that can start a truly cold power plant even in the US.

Better not draft them then

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Volmarias posted:

Better not draft them then

A large portion of them are produced by the maritime schools. I had to be able to start a vessels cold dead plant on a simulator. There are group of alumni that got into doing it for new shoreside plants.

Vessel plants go down more than most people would be comfortable knowing during maneuvering. So marine engineers get gud so to speak.

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Svaha posted:

Is it though? Those people are missing from the Russian economy right now. I guess it's hard to say at what point losing that many people in a specific age bracket starts to have noticeable effects.

cynically, the upcoming generation of tajik and kyrgyz youth fill in your basic labor pool, and your currently self-displaced specialist labor returns in the long run, or at least continues to be enmeshed in your economy despite residing abroad

which, to be clear, isn't something to discount entirely, but it's not quite a crisis either

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013

Russian brain drain happened way before the war and it has nothing to do with the draft. They had a anti-intellectual sway back in the mid 2010s with the usual suspects: attacking, privatising education, taking over and directly controlling universities and now culture war bullshit.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

Charliegrs posted:

Any idea how this happened? Like I thought Russia lost most of the European market for oil so is it just being made up for by India and China?

The price of oil went up and, as you've stated, it turns out that lots of places need and want oil.

Freudian slippers
Jun 23, 2009
US Goon shocked and appalled to find that world is a dirty, unjust place

Bholder posted:

Russian brain drain happened way before the war and it has nothing to do with the draft. They had a anti-intellectual sway back in the mid 2010s with the usual suspects: attacking, privatising education, taking over and directly controlling universities and now culture war bullshit.

The war certainly hasn't helped.

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009

Bholder posted:

Russian brain drain happened way before the war and it has nothing to do with the draft. They had a anti-intellectual sway back in the mid 2010s with the usual suspects: attacking, privatising education, taking over and directly controlling universities and now culture war bullshit.

Same as it ever was. Major segments of science were effectively outlawed under Stalinism as anti-communist, and after that I know several people whose families simply got out of Dodge as soon as the Iron Curtain fell for various reasons.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Interesting article on the Russian economy by Meduza:
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/1...-for-the-future

quote:

Shortages of industrial capacity and labor will also limit Russia’s manufacturing development, says Raiffeisenbank analyst Stanislav Murashov. Additionally, further hikes to the key interest rate will slow the growth of wages and complicate the work of upgrading enterprises technologically. With nearly full employment, labor will redistribute across sectors, driving workers from areas hit by rising interest rates like construction, retail, and finance into enterprises in Russia’s military-industrial complex, predicts Bloomberg Economics chief economist Alexander Isakov, who says future rate hikes will reduce lending and, in turn, consumer demand, raising the risk of another recession in the next six months to more than 70 percent.

More than 85 percent of companies are experiencing staff shortages, and skilled workers are the most scarce of all. Wages rose nominally by 13.2 percent in the first nine months of 2023, and unemployment fell to 2.9 percent (the lowest level in post-Soviet history), but these impressive statistics conceal major problems with labor productivity, which fell by 3.6 percent compared to 2021 — the worst decline since 2009. The emigration of skilled workers fleeing the war and political repressions, not to mention the participation and deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in the war, has removed from Russia’s labor pool another million or so workers.

So I think its another case of things having an effect, but smaller than we hoped. We'll have to wait and see if borrowing to fund the MIC will have long term impacts, but the most critical thing will probably be global oil prices.

Meanwhile:
https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1733346476485464086#m

At least one company does seem affected by sanctions.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

WarpedLichen posted:

Interesting article on the Russian economy by Meduza:
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/1...-for-the-future

Uhh, is the author aware of the rate hikes and full employment in other countries?

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010
https://x.com/Tim_Roehn/status/1733501583822856341?s=20

https://x.com/KatjaBody/status/1733805799435010376?s=20

The article is paywalled, unfortunately. I don't think Welt has a particular sensationalist reputation, but German goons may correct me.

Sad Panda
Sep 22, 2004

I'm a Sad Panda.

Hannibal Rex posted:

https://x.com/Tim_Roehn/status/1733501583822856341?s=20

https://x.com/KatjaBody/status/1733805799435010376?s=20

The article is paywalled, unfortunately. I don't think Welt has a particular sensationalist reputation, but German goons may correct me.

https://archive.is/nRXjA and then throw it into Translate.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.
My theory has always been that it was Russian domestic terrorists possibly with Ukrainian support. And nothing in that article goes strongly against it.

They have a boat with explosive trails, and a previous crew that spoke Ukrainian and Russian and most were Russian citizens. Which makes sense if they are from the occupied region. But it also might have been a false flag, by either side.

The boat was owned by an Ukrainian guy, who was being investigated for pro Russian domestic terrorism in Ukraine after the 2014 invasion.

beer_war
Mar 10, 2005

Hannibal Rex posted:

https://x.com/Tim_Roehn/status/1733501583822856341?s=20

https://x.com/KatjaBody/status/1733805799435010376?s=20

The article is paywalled, unfortunately. I don't think Welt has a particular sensationalist reputation, but German goons may correct me.

Nah, Welt is dogshit unfortunately.

Frankly, all these exclusive revelations coming out every few months claiming it's possibly maybe probably this or that party are getting tedious. There shouldn't be another article about Nordstream until the available evidence can be made public. If that means we won't know until after the war, so be it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

You can't blow up an oil pipeline with just a boat, you need divers, explosives, training, and all sorts of special military equipment. A non-state actor simply doesn't have the resources to do it imo.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply