(Thread IKs:
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All of this sounds like a lot of work. It's quite easy to see how none of our problems can get solved when the solutions are so convoluted
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Dec 10, 2023 00:40
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| # ? May 27, 2024 22:33 |
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Truga posted:realtalk, in locales with extreme temperature changes where even modern coolants can't cope, you dig a small hole and run water through that, underground temperature only changes by a few degrees over the whole year so your refrigerant works fine. it is more expensive to install, but does keep up the efficiency Ground source are indeed more efficient, but you need the land area to do the pipework and it's a big job to tear up the ground and lay them. In the UK they cost probably over £20k on average, while air source heat pumps are £10k and up. You need to have a decently insulated house, and likely larger radiators to handle the larger flow rates at lower temps, lower even than a combi-boiler using weather compensation data to adjust the heat curve. Under floor heating would be the best setup ideally, although that's naturally even more expensive. And lol at UK housing stock being able to manage that, hence the Tory press going on about a single lord's manor from 1700 with a 15 kW heat pump being bitterly cold in that one week it was -10ºC and snowy out.
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Dec 10, 2023 00:42
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yeah and we are having global warming right now so heat pump that can also cool will likely to be more useful in the future anyway
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Dec 10, 2023 00:42
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coke posted:yeah and we are having global warming right now so heat pump that can also cool will likely to be more useful in the future anyway yeah someone brought that up a couple months ago. we're never getting rid of AC, because if you have a heat pump, you probably have a double unit that does AC too
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Dec 10, 2023 00:45
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coke posted:yeah and we are having global warming right now so heat pump that can also cool will likely to be more useful in the future anyway Typically, I find models most often on sale are air source and water heating and the more expensive ground source ones too. Air-to-air setups are rarer as it means you then need a second system for hot water, and actually you kinda do even with air-to-water systems since the low energy heat feeds into an immersion heater back up water tank to kill off legionella and make sure you do always get hot water. I do have a portable A/C unit I got last summer when it was +40ºC here in Anglia, and it was a fun experiment for only £250. I made it so the unit was sat outside blowing cool air into my main bedroom, which massively improved the efficiency since the condenser is now outside and it doesn't cause negative pressure in the house, making it suck in hot air and force the unit to work harder. I expect next summer with El Niño will be where I get to see it pay back the outlay. SixteenShells posted:yeah someone brought that up a couple months ago. we're never getting rid of AC, because if you have a heat pump, you probably have a double unit that does AC too It's really just a question of having a reversible valve and pump for changing the, uh, polarity? Of the system. Any A/C is also a heat pump in basic engineering terms because they do the same thing and it's reversible. A fridge is literally that. You could buy a chest freezer and put container of water in it and have it cool them whilst in your house and use it like a space heater with the efficiency of a heat pump. It just wouldn't be very convenient. Skaffen-Amtiskaw has issued a correction as of 00:50 on Dec 10, 2023 |
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Dec 10, 2023 00:48
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It seems like a heat pump is an AC but missing the most important functionality in the context of global warming, that being to remove warm air from indoors and replace it with cool. It honestly sounds like a joke product
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Dec 10, 2023 00:48
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Dokapon Findom posted:It seems like a heat pump is an AC but missing the most important functionality in the context of global warming, that being to remove warm air from indoors and replace it with cool. It honestly sounds like a joke product I'm told heat pumps on the continent and in Asia have been a thing for decades. The most common sellers like Mitsubishi and Daikin units, are essentially your heating and cooling HVAC all-in-one. If you go into any shop or cafe on the high street, do you see radiators or massive fan heaters? No. They'll be warmed (and cooled) by heat pumps outside, like most commercial properties, to maintain a constant temp. It's just we now see the tech be brought more to the consumer for households whereas in the past it was just A/C for the hot countries, now places like the UK where cold winters and hot summers happen can have that option if they so choose. If the AMOC shuts down, we at least can use those units to heat if they no longer require the cooling function, or you an MacGuyver the A/C to heat instead.
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Dec 10, 2023 00:53
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Dokapon Findom posted:It seems like a heat pump is an AC but missing the most important functionality in the context of global warming, that being to remove warm air from indoors and replace it with cool. It honestly sounds like a joke product that's literally all it is. it's just that it still works even when it's cold out.
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Dec 10, 2023 00:58
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Dokapon Findom posted:It seems like a heat pump is an AC but missing the most important functionality in the context of global warming, that being to remove warm air from indoors and replace it with cool. It honestly sounds like a joke product wait do you think that’s how the traditional ac works in the us?
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Dec 10, 2023 00:59
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:Ground source are indeed more efficient, but you need the land area to do the pipework and it's a big job to tear up the ground and lay them. In the UK they cost probably over £20k on average, while air source heat pumps are £10k and up. You need to have a decently insulated house, and likely larger radiators to handle the larger flow rates at lower temps, lower even than a combi-boiler using weather compensation data to adjust the heat curve. Under floor heating would be the best setup ideally, although that's naturally even more expensive. vertical boreholes are often the solution to needing a bunch of land, but that doesnt solve the Tory problem. Dokapon Findom posted:It seems like a heat pump is an AC but missing the most important functionality in the context of global warming, that being to remove warm air from indoors and replace it with cool. It honestly sounds like a joke product ACs are heat pumps also one of the cool things about climate change is it will make some winters more extreme in some places even as the planet overall heats up
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Dec 10, 2023 01:02
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Trabisnikof posted:vertical boreholes are often the solution to needing a bunch of land, but that doesnt solve the Tory problem. um actually climate change supposedly hot but now you say cold? checkmate much?
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Dec 10, 2023 01:05
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i had a heat pump installed this year to save on gas, have ac for ever hotter summers, and for the new smoke season. triple threat  i don’t think it’s saving me any money but that’s because I’m forever cursed to make poor decisions
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Dec 10, 2023 01:07
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Trabisnikof posted:vertical boreholes are often the solution to needing a bunch of land, but that doesnt solve the Tory problem. That's true. I don't think I've ever seen a company promote those though, they all seem to have focused on shallow grid heat exchangers instead of the boreholes method. The Tories are busy doing massive deep boreholes with their polling numbers, so it's progress of a sort. They can jump down into them and Hell for that non-heat pump heat they so crave.
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Dec 10, 2023 01:14
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:That's true. I don't think I've ever seen a company promote those though, they all seem to have focused on shallow grid heat exchangers instead of the boreholes method. are private water wells common in rural UK? from what I understand in north america there are enough water well contractors that the geothermal installers can often just outsource the drilling to them
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Dec 10, 2023 01:23
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Trabisnikof posted:are private water wells common in rural UK? from what I understand in north america there are enough water well contractors that the geothermal installers can often just outsource the drilling to them The island that is busy polluting the Channel, Irish Sea, North Sea and Atlantic with poo is probably not the place that has a good handle on water rights and infrastructure. But no, to my knowledge unless you're on a farm, private wells aren't really a thing, just more extended water mains. I would guess if they wanted to piggyback off an industry, it'd be the gas utilities since they do a lot of digging up stuff, although their gambit has been to push hydrogen because they have pipes and need to keep earning cash if we wean ourselves off methane, so heat pumps are opposed. I was going to suggest the water companies and then I remembered the first sentence of this reply and thought better of trusting them. EDIT: I guess it depends on how rural. I have a work colleague who lives in a hamlet in Bedfordshire that is oil heated even though he has electric mains and water. Seems like a holdover for an older property, and yet for a fair upfront cost you could upgrade the house to have a heat pump and save in the long term given oil volatility. EDIT the 2nd: https://www.imsheatpumps.co.uk/blog/ground-source-heat-pump-borehole-cost/ quote:The cost of installing a vertical GSHP Yikes. Skaffen-Amtiskaw has issued a correction as of 01:33 on Dec 10, 2023 |
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Dec 10, 2023 01:26
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Another beautiful 60 degree Michigan winter day! Breezy and green! *Deep breath* Aaaahhhhhh
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Dec 10, 2023 02:26
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any recent updates on the climate? how we looking now?
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Dec 10, 2023 04:45
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HAIL eSATA-n posted:i had a heat pump installed this year to save on gas, have ac for ever hotter summers, and for the new smoke season. triple threat tbh that's kind of the problem with the reporting on this study, which is definitely being presented as a gotcha kind of thing Like, yeah, heat pumps are great, but the typical person isn't going to save a lot of money because they cost so much upfront. And one large bill is often going to be much, much worse for most people even if it means spending less on utility bills. It's kind of like every other loving thing. There are potentially tolerable solutions that people would accept, but only if the costs could be pretty much entirely socialized. Oops.
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Dec 10, 2023 04:50
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CODChimera posted:any recent updates on the climate? how we looking now? They invented a fail air conditioner for heat. The Earth is saved
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Dec 10, 2023 05:21
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If your climate solution involves a five-figure purchase by individual consumers, you don't have a climate solution.
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Dec 10, 2023 05:29
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someone tell the dems
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Dec 10, 2023 06:00
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Paradoxish posted:If your climate solution involves a five-figure purchase by individual consumers, you don't have a climate solution. governments are made up of individual consumers so when you think about it all change has to come from the people and not the system that's just the rules sorry
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Dec 10, 2023 08:46
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heat pump is actually a neat tech and would work well if we already had a sane housing situation. it may have been in this very thread that somebody posted the soviets growing citrus in loving siberia(?) and that dude growing lemons in a hell desert of i think east california -- these are essentially very early prototype versions that didn't even use glass or greenhouses so if the problem were already able to be fixed because we had a coherent economy and humane housing, heat pumping would be part of the solution. Basically the "without fossil fuels the world returns to caves" is real but that's good?
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Dec 10, 2023 08:59
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goon caves, man caves, bin laden's cave fortress examples abound of a shared humanity that yearns to return to the comforting embrace of our natural habitat
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Dec 10, 2023 09:26
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A cave is just a naturally-occurring dome: prove me wrong
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Dec 10, 2023 09:33
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It is, we had what we needed all along It is the false dream of capitalistic domism which is killing us
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Dec 10, 2023 09:58
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CODChimera posted:any recent updates on the climate? how we looking now? I'll quickly check outside
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Dec 10, 2023 10:50
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Has anyone seen starkebn? Last seen going outside to check on the climate
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Dec 10, 2023 12:08
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this is us (turn sound on) https://i.imgur.com/WcRlAsh.mp4
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Dec 10, 2023 12:17
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the intensely ominous sound of rebar plinking like a detuned music box is 
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Dec 10, 2023 12:38
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Watching for less than one second until the end: holy poo poo you need to be getting out of there you need to be getting out of there you need to be getting out of there dude you need to be getting out of there
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Dec 10, 2023 13:04
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Watching for less than one second until the end: holy poo poo you need to be getting out of there you need to be getting out of there you need to be getting out of there dude you need to be getting out of there thats like the signature theme of the "collapse will consist of watching cellphone disaster videos until the day you're the one holding the phone" oeuvre at that point you gotta do you part and get on that final content grind 
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Dec 10, 2023 13:25
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Im just spitballing, but what if we installed a giant heat pump for the whole earth? Maybe that would solve climate change?
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Dec 10, 2023 14:23
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I checked, my heatpump was running blowing cool air outside to help cool things down - I think we'll be fine
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Dec 10, 2023 14:33
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Dokapon Findom posted:It seems like a heat pump is an AC but missing the most important functionality in the context of global warming, that being to remove warm air from indoors and replace it with cool. It honestly sounds like a joke product My neighbors paid double or even triple my electric bill this summer compared to my heat pump and I charge an EV at home.
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Dec 10, 2023 14:38
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Dokapon Findom posted:They invented a fail air conditioner for heat. The Earth is saved
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Dec 10, 2023 14:40
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cat botherer posted:ACs are fail heat pumps that can't reverse heat transfer direction for some reason, even though it's like the simplest feature you could add. You can definitely turn an A/C unit into a heat pump without too much effort but the issue will likely be with the refrigerant. One that suits A/C usage with say 80-100F outdoor temps and 70-ish indoor might not be as well suited when you are trying to maintain 70F indoor and it’s 20F outside. So a unit that does both will probably be a bit of a compromise and less efficient than a dedicated A/C unit.
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Dec 10, 2023 16:17
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heat pumps have been around for longer than i've been alive, they're more or less the same as an AC with the addition of a reversing valve and a couple of check valves and a refrigerant accumulation tank before the compressor. they are generally built a bit more rugged to withstand year-round use, though most improvements have come from the additions of things like variable frequency drives to modulate the speed of the compressor and fans using a logic board and a million temp sensors, all cool though they add more failure points to the system. either way basically no reason not to have a heat pump if you already have or are installing central air, except yknow, the absurd cost of it all. district heating/cooling wins again
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Dec 10, 2023 17:12
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Gravid Topiary posted:this is us (turn sound on) what is going on here
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Dec 10, 2023 17:13
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| # ? May 27, 2024 22:33 |
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:what is going on here
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Dec 10, 2023 17:15
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