Here's one:
Clipperton fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 20:28
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:16 |
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I liked the game of catch. The cutting the cards game was obvious, and good too. It had to be a game that had no room for manipulation and unfairness or "well actually," but it also couldn't be something that left the fate of the world to the chance of a die or coin toss: that's Bill and Ted's strategy, not the Doctor's... Doctors'. Where there's room to think, you can't beat the Toymaker and that's the challenge he presents to the Doctor. I can't remember if the dialogue implied it, but that seems like the trap that the Master would have fallen to. I could concede that maybe a different such game would have filled the role, but I can't think of one that would fit. If we're changing the scene I'd rather see something like that, maybe something that the doctor is able to subtly tilt by there being two of him?
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Dec 11, 2023 20:33
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Whybird posted:I do agree that the game of catch was a bit disappointing - not from a physicality perspective but from a narrative one. The classic way to beat a foe like the Toymaker is to find a way to trick them into thinking they've won the game and then reveal how they broke the rules, or to use the rules of their own game against them, or something like that. Agree. Another potential scenario, from the "turning the rules around on the Toymaker" angle: - They throw the ball back and forth until one Doctor fumbles, but the other catches it before it hits the ground. - The Toymaker smugly declares victory, and the Doctor who caught it throws the ball 'away' in frustration. It goes over the edge of the building. - More gloating from the Toymaker, who is about to claim his prize, when: - The Doctors point out that by the Toymaker's own rules, he accepted the challenge from the "next" Doctor but by allowing the "last" one to participate as an opponent, he was acknowledging that they were the same person. Therefore, the ball was still in play when the second Doctor caught it. - "So that ball we threw? Oh, yeah, you better go catch it, unless... oh, it should be hitting the ground right... about... now."
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Dec 11, 2023 20:38
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I was sure that Tennant was going to beat the Toymaker at catch by having him catch a ball, and then while The Toymaker was monologing a ball would bounce off his head from out of shot, then we'd see the reveal that Tennant had pocketed one (or more) of the balls that the toymaker had thrown at him while juggling in the toyshop. Then it would have made sense that he challenged him to a game of catch, plus he would have beaten him by cleverly planning ahead instead of just being better at catching than him (and also by having a 2-on-1 advantage).
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Dec 11, 2023 20:38
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Coverage and editing issues aside, the catch game needed something, anything more narratively satisfying than “the toymaker just happens to fumble the ball”. These ideas are all much better than what that moment actually came down to.
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Dec 11, 2023 20:51
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I know this probably wasn’t the case, but I like to think Rusty wrote all three of these specials in a procrastination-induced 24 hour span, running purely on panic and caffeine, and occasionally screaming “why did I agree to do this again” to himself.
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Dec 11, 2023 20:54
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Gaz-L posted:It's canon that the fading and the noise are the Doctor leaving the brakes on. I prefer to think that River was just razzing the Doctor and she actually just enabled a silent running mode he never learned about because he loves that noise, why would he want to switch it off? Clipperton posted:Here's one: Your suggestion seems like it actually makes the Doctor stupider, though, I preferred it where he immediately skipped your first step because he realised trying to outplay the Toymaker was a fool's errand. Also it would have the last resolution of the plot being literally a toin coss, how's that any better? At least with the game of catch you have the two Doctors working together and strategising, because this time the odds are in their favour, because it's two against one - which they wouldn't be if the Toymaker hadn't forced 14 to bigenerate. It seems like they were held back in shooting the game itself because Gatwa apparently can't catch a ball to save his life, but to be fair that's not usually something you're looking for in an actor. Plus now I think about it it also calls back to 10 being a crack shot with a satsuma back in The Christmas Invasion - he's playing to his strengths, to boot. In fact, unlike the Toymaker, the Doctors don't have to worry about falling off the building (I mean obviously the Toymaker doesn't either, but under the rules of the game he doesn't seem to use his powers, so he might have reflexively not jumped after it, even though he could have just flown back once he did catch it).
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Dec 11, 2023 21:08
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I think it's that Time Lords can't fly/teleport/jump 200 feet in the air, so to be fair, the Toymaker can't do those things within the confines of the game.
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Dec 11, 2023 21:12
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Yvonmukluk posted:Your suggestion seems like it actually makes the Doctor stupider, though, I preferred it where he immediately skipped your first step because he realised trying to outplay the Toymaker was a fool's errand. Also it would have the last resolution of the plot being literally a toin coss, how's that any better? Fair point, and I'm not that invested in defending my off-the-cuff fanfic idea but it's a slow day at work so: The first time with the Doctor choosing a proper game and losing* would establish that you just can't outsmart the Toymaker, which would rule out an ending where the Doctor(s) do just that (although the ideas itt for a climax where they do just that are all great!). So the situation is so dire that random chance is all that he's left with. Then by inducing the bigeneration and giving the Doctor another shot, the Toymaker would play himself by unnecessarily being a dick, which is always satisfying to watch. *you could make a nail-biter set-piece out of that in the way the catch game wasn't: they're playing forty-one dimensional chess with a thousand pieces and extravagant SFX, the Doctor is barely one step ahead of the Toymaker (NPH going "check....check...check"), then springs his trap with a brilliant move, starts his victory speech and NPH just goes "Checkmate" lol
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Dec 11, 2023 21:25
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How the gently caress are there ten billion uploads of the Spice Girls dance on YouTube but not one of the full puppet show yet, this is not all right then 
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Dec 11, 2023 21:42
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This latest special has me conflicted in a good way. On the one hand, I wasn't very satisfied with the way they executed the resolution (winning catch). However, I'm actually fired up for Doctor Who again. I was confused and a little put off over the bi-generation thing until I took some time to think about it and what it means for storytelling. The idea that we can get a lot more Doctor/Doctor team-ups is cool, and actually may help clean up the overall timeline (long story, in my head this makes sense). I also usually get annoyed with side-stories, but I would love to see how The Master got trapped in a tooth. I just hope that character doesn't get overused as badly as it was, especially during 13's run. I got flat out sick of seeing him, in spite of how good Dhawan was in the role.
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Dec 11, 2023 21:58
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Clipperton posted:Fair point, and I'm not that invested in defending my off-the-cuff fanfic idea but it's a slow day at work so: The problem is that if the game is Fizzbin/Calvinball then the audience doesn't actually feel satisfied because we have no idea what the rules even are so we can't tell the bad guy cheated or not.* I think this might be revealing ol' Rusty in a rare instance of being too subtle though, as I think maybe the Doctor explicitly explaining that he has to choose simple games to give the Toymaker as little wiggle room as possible might've helped that beat land with people better. *EDIT:Basically, that turns the scene into "Aha Double EDIT: Although, synergy would've been for the Doctor to challenge him to a game of... Magic The Gathering! Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 22:03
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Well that's just loving dumb. Why can't these writers be content with what they actually write and put on screen instead of adding embellishments in random places to prove cool they are.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:03
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Mr Beens posted:Well that's just loving dumb. Why can't these writers be content with what they actually write and put on screen instead of adding embellishments in random places to prove cool they are. Man, it doesn't matter, if its not on the screen who cares?
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Dec 11, 2023 22:10
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Imagine being negative about any of the last three specials after the tedium we just went through with Chibnall.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:11
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Gaz-L posted:The problem is that if the game is Fizzbin/Calvinball then the audience doesn't actually feel satisfied because we have no idea what the rules even are so we can't tell the bad guy cheated or not. Yeah you'd need it to be a close analogue of an Earth game so you could have eg "check"s and "checkmate"s to show who's in trouble/who just won. And the whole idea would be that the Toymaker doesn't cheat when he's actually playing a game (as opposed to just loving with everybody) quote:I think this might be revealing ol' Rusty in a rare instance of being too subtle though, as I think maybe the Doctor explicitly explaining that he has to choose simple games to give the Toymaker as little wiggle room as possible might've helped that beat land with people better. That bit came across just fine in the episode imo - my problem with it wasn't that catch is a simple game, it's that the Doctors just...win, with no amazing reversals, or last-second saves, or any drama at all Big Mean Jerk posted:Imagine being negative about any of the last three specials after the tedium we just went through with Chibnall. Tbh I think the general reaction to the specials has been more positive than they deserve and it's purely out of relief that Chibnall's out the door, and I totally sympathize
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Dec 11, 2023 22:15
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The only part I'm negative on is the ballgame. Everything else, even the stuff with direct correlates to things that annoyed me in the RTD1 era (metacrisis, I Can't Decide, etc.) still worked for me because it was all so goddamn well done. Seriously it's like a form of production wizardry. I'll never be anything but ambivalent to the RTD1 era post-Series 1, even now, but it's absolutely clear that the last 15 years have upped his game by leaps and bounds. I was just repeating "gently caress, this is actually so good" in my mind over and over again during the last 2 specials. I'm excited like nothing else. I just hope he doesn't run out of steam anytime soon.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:18
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Mr Beens posted:Well that's just loving dumb. Why can't these writers be content with what they actually write and put on screen instead of adding embellishments in random places to prove cool they are. The idea is silly, does not make sense, doesn't add anything to the previous Doctors as depicted. But, it can be a thin excuse to have some fun times with old favorites. I've always really liked the concept of the Two Doctors- it's just a normal Sixth Doctor story where, just for fun, the 2nd Doctor and Jamie show up too. Delightful! Imagine some story where 15 and companion are facing some typical peril and out of nowhere 7 and Ace show up with a clever plan and a bomb. No excuse needed for why he's so old- they're just traveling together again and having fun!
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Dec 11, 2023 22:18
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Mr Beens posted:Well that's just loving dumb. Why can't these writers be content with what they actually write and put on screen instead of adding embellishments in random places to prove cool they are. As long as Davies is just making suggestions on commentary tracks but not putting it in episode scripts fans and future writers can play with the ideas decide what they like and some future version of the show can choose to incorporate or disregard it. Davies gets to share the creative process which he's always loved doing (see the writer's tale) without imposing restrictive or overriding lore in absence of corresponding stories. It's the same reason that Davies mentions a nightmare child but doesn't define it.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:18
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Chibnall lowered my expectations so far that an OK RTD script with all its signature successes and failures feels like a grand accomplishment and I'm squeeing. If this episode had come out before Smith, we would have been tearing it to shreds. Chill my dude, there's plenty of positivity, ample room for a little critical discussion too.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:19
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My only problem with playing catch was that it was obvious the ball wasn't being thrown. Like, they'd smash cut to someone acting like they just caught a ball they had clearly been holding. That's my story.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:24
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This did feel in places like Last Of The Time Lords, But With Time To Do A Second Draft.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:28
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Gaz-L posted:Double EDIT: Although, synergy would've been for the Doctor to challenge him to a game of... Magic The Gathering! gently caress me, I can just see them doing something like that as a cross promotion. Feeling much better about the catch game now
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Dec 11, 2023 22:29
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Wild Blue Yonder (9/10) (basically no notes, stellar bottle episode, best DW I've seen since Capaldi's run) Star Beast (6/10) (most of the points go the meep, tons of exposition and story baggage and ) The Giggle (6/10) (NPH and Ncuti doing some heavy lifting, too much asspulling, the whole catch scene was awful) I am super excited for the coming season but I'm not so fragile a fan that I have to pretend it's perfect. But WBY came damned close. It's going on my list of 'best-of/rewatch episodes'.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:32
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Fifteen dramatically tapping 8 lands to hard cast Craterhoof Behemoth... Toymaker: "Force of Will"
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Dec 11, 2023 22:33
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Clipperton posted:gently caress me, I can just see them doing something like that as a cross promotion. Feeling much better about the catch game now There's a Big Finish story where there's a similar concept of a casino where you.can bet anything and the Doctor risks it all on a game of Top Trumps...
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Dec 11, 2023 22:34
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DoctorWhat posted:It's the same reason that Davies mentions a nightmare child but doesn't define it. The Nightmare Child appeared in The Third Wise Man short story in the Twelve Angels Weeping Anthology It's a Dalek creation, naturally, and begins devouring everything, as children are wont to do   It's also not fully defined, and still had much growing to do, to the point that by the end of the time war, they were duplicating the earth to use as bullets against it
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Dec 11, 2023 22:40
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There's a new 30 second teaser up on the Disney+ Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB87uGgoKBg
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Dec 11, 2023 22:52
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I wonder if Disney+ has been holding off heavily promoting the specials because they bought in with the condition of the soft reboot, and felt like promoting these would confuse their poor viewers.
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Dec 11, 2023 23:01
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Infinitum posted:The recent stuff like Sony just straight up deleting shows people have paid access to is such a big part of why piracy will always be about. I recently started a rewatch on Max and as soon as it got to the Runaway Bride the framerate was hosed, everything was subtly sped up. Then I checked the next season and it was the same thing in all the episodes. I googled it and this has been an issue on Max for years without a fix. Completely unwatchable for me, thank god for 
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Dec 11, 2023 23:07
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I've had a thought about the Fugitive Doctor's TARDIS being a police box. I believe its exterior is only visible in Fugitive of the Judoon, but I do think this logic plays anyway: What if its chameleon circuit isn't broken? That was an earnest form of camouflage, because the chameleon circuits actually do know that blue police boxes just have a small chance of turning up wherever the hell, and nobody really questions it. Basically, the Doctor time paradox'd their way into all TARDISes looking like police boxes sometimes.
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Dec 11, 2023 23:09
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Gaz-L posted:I wonder if Disney+ has been holding off heavily promoting the specials because they bought in with the condition of the soft reboot, and felt like promoting these would confuse their poor viewers. That seems sensible. These specials were very much an encore for nuWho, which itself was steeped in classic to some degree. Basically clearing the plate so there can be a reboot without discarding its own legacy and new viewers can all be on the same page. I assume there will be a time jump of sorts so even long time viewers basically know as much about the current Doctor as new ones.
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Dec 11, 2023 23:20
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Makes sense, with the diminishing returns Disney have been seeing with each new Marvel and Star Wars series they would be very eager to ensure as many people as possible can start off with the new series.
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Dec 11, 2023 23:33
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The tardis being a police box in the 60s made sense when they were everywhere, but since there's only a handful left these days it should adopt a new shape, like an American candy store for example, or a phone repair shop.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:08
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Mr.Radar posted:There's a new 30 second teaser up on the Disney+ Youtube channel: Yes, Youtube algorithm, just because I watched a Disney+ video of Doctor Who means I hate "woke" content from Disney     
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Dec 12, 2023 00:14
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So I watched both the second and third episodes on the weekend, and hot drat did I love "Wild Blue Yonder". Coulda been writing the episode specifically for me, and I'm not even much of a Who guy. Didnt hurt that I didn't see any of the Flux stuff, so Tennant's PTSD moment about it hit me exactly like all the unexplained stuff from the Time War. I read the summary a few pages back but I really functionally don't need to know what happened other than "half the universe got removed, and yes, we do mean universe, we're not kidding about the scale here" to understand why the Doctor is so torn up about it. Looking forward to Gatwa, I hope he gets to have as much fun on the job as his first five minutes looked like.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:22
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jisforjosh posted:Yes, Youtube algorithm, just because I watched a Disney+ video of Doctor Who means I hate "woke" content from Disney And Youtube is making assumptions about you, not that video. I watched the video incognito on a work computer and got completely normal Doctor Who media and trailers for popular young adult properties. Edit: And to be clear, gently caress Youtube also for supporting an ecosystem that promotes that poo poo. I'm positive it was incorrectly targeting you in any case. But like, we don't need to see that poo poo in this thread. Eiba fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 00:37
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I've been getting those kinds of videos in my recommendations since I started watching Doctor Who content after The Star Beast came out despite having tuned the algorithm pretty well through careful pruning of my watch history so it doesn't usually recommend that kind of poo poo to me.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:51
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Y'all don't have youtube suggestions permanently blocked? That's like Internet hygeine 101 stuff I taught my kids when they were old enough. Block that poo poo and never look back.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:53
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 16:16 |
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Sometimes YouTube actually recommends good videos so I keep it on (also there's no real way to disable it in the phone or TV apps).
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Dec 12, 2023 00:56
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