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i mean this quite seriously: hats off to the dodgers for discovering the new competitive imbalance, which is to have legal counsel who says really go for it
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Dec 12, 2023 01:00
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Harlock posted:This deal sucks for any upcoming free agents expected to do the same I dunno, if I'm a free agent now that a team wants to sign you can just say "You either pay me $28 mil a year now or $50 million a year deferred"
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Dec 12, 2023 01:01
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The 680 Million Dollar Man (Eventually)
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Dec 12, 2023 01:02
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MLB N/V 2023-24 Offseason: The 500 thousand dollar man (Wallet?)
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Dec 12, 2023 01:06
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The way teams have to do goofy structures to deals to circumvent the luxury tax is annoying, and this is coming from a team that went through unprecedented hoops to release players and rapidly slash payroll on anyone that possibly could to clear the threshold by reportedly under $30k. I don't see why MLB would veto a deal that would sign Judge from ages 30-44 for $400M, an AAV of 28.5M but then allow whatever the heck is going on with Ohtani's deal. Is this not an AAV of $70M through the time that he plays? Is it $35M because hes being paid for 20 years? Is it really only $2M because thats what he makes while playing? What is to stop any MLB veteran that might be seeking a 1-2 year deal that has already made ungodly amounts of money (think Verlander or Scherzer) from deferring all their salary to the following year if teams can circumvent the luxury tax rules by having deferred salaries be counted separately? Could a player sign in New York, make the league minimum and then get a $30M check the day after they become a free agent and go back home to Texas and take advantage of the state income taxes since that is the state they reside in while making that $30M?
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Dec 12, 2023 01:07
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MLB should void this deal for 'baseball reasons"
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Dec 12, 2023 01:08
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The dodgers owners are going to do everything they possibly can to avoid paying that salary out in 2034
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Dec 12, 2023 01:11
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bees x1000 posted:what's it going to take to update the thread title I have PM'd a mod asking for assistance Also I will add that while making a present value joke was very tempting because I went back to school and that exact thing is something we're literally covering right now, I went with a much simpler idea that will hopefully still be funny IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 01:13
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bawfuls posted:The CBA explicitly does not have any prohibitions on deferred money, there is language in it standardizing the application of the luxury tax to deferrals. Harper has no deferred money
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Dec 12, 2023 01:15
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bawfuls posted:Should I go heel turn instead? I dunno if that fits well with the man’s vibe. It’s December, I’m not in peak posting shape here. just be a normal poster who's happy to get to root for a rad player
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Dec 12, 2023 01:16
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Rogers Communications please use your monopoly money to sue MLB over this, Lord knows you’ve got the money
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Dec 12, 2023 01:19
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bawfuls posted:Betts and Harper also have significant deferred money. bawfuls posted:stop stanning for billionaires I could say the same. Placing huge future commitments like more than a half-billion dollars for previously rendered services is the kind of thing that makes a franchise toxic to transfer. Imagine if McCourt used this poo poo to make the team even more toxic so that nobody would have wanted to take it away from him.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:21
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FlamingLiberal posted:Like I don't personally care about how Ohtani is paid, but for him to only count as $2 million a year in salary for a team that already has a ton of superstars? This definitely frees up the Dodgers to throw money at Yamamoto. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 01:22
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sleep with the vicious posted:The dodgers owners are going to do everything they possibly can to avoid paying that salary out in 2034 Plenty of time to find the finest contract killer on Earth
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Dec 12, 2023 01:22
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How the gently caress is any of this legal
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Dec 12, 2023 01:23
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What a dumb sport
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Dec 12, 2023 01:24
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triple sulk posted:How the gently caress is any of this legal Everyone knew Ohtani was going to the Dodgers and they ended up taking advantage of a loophole that was already on the books. What a coincidence.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:27
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live with fruit posted:Fans. Non-Dodger fans lose. It infuriates me how people say something like "Well maybe other owners should just spend more" like fans in Pittsburgh or Colorado have any control over that. Everyone here agrees that Bob Nutting and Dick Monfort suck poo poo and should be fired into the sun. The Dodgers payroll is not what’s standing between Bucs fans and a competitive team, nor is the luxury tax doing anything to help them reach that goal. The issue is 100% their owners, which as you said none of us have control over. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 01:28
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triple sulk posted:How the gently caress is any of this legal The MLBPA and owners went to a bargaining table and agreed it was fine.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:29
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triple sulk posted:How the gently caress is any of this legal Billionaires decide what the rules are.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:31
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Harlock posted:This deal sucks for any upcoming free agents expected to do the same MaoistBanker posted:I dunno, if I'm a free agent now that a team wants to sign you can just say "You either pay me $28 mil a year now or $50 million a year deferred" Ohtani doing this because he's a weirdo who wants rings right now isn't the problem. It seems like if more of these deals happen, it'll depress the near-term value of free agent contracts, won't it? We already know the owners collude, and they're definitely going to try to push players into these contracts. And the first time a player's arm explodes in year 2 of a 10-year deal with $500 million owed at the end, you know drat well they're going to try to weasel out of it.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:32
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live with fruit posted:I'm arguing that people shouldn't throw lovely ownership in the face of fans who are rightfully upset about how clearly MLB is divided into the haves and have nots when they have no control over anything.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:32
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bawfuls posted:how will a poor small market team with tight budget constraints ever beat the Dodgers in October?? I mean, could you imagine say, the Arizona Diamondbacks and their ~$110M payroll beating the Dodgers in the postseason? Such a thing could never happen in baseball, it’s preposterous! Finally, we're back to talking about the plucky lovable DBacks: the real
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Dec 12, 2023 01:34
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Tatsuta Age posted:The MLBPA exists to protect players from predatory deals from ownership and stuff, but this is just straight up Ohtani deciding "pay me half what I could get, I'd rather get rings" A-Rod tried to take less money and the MLBPA got after him because him because it would devalue everyone if he walked away from his contract to play for less money on a winner. This could start a trend where players are expected to take IOU's until retirement. It also has the fun side effect of burdening the team organization with so many icky deals from ages ago that a lovely owner could entrench themselves by essentially taking on a mountain of debt. And bawfuls you get to watch the best player on Earth for years and that's cool and all, but I don't get coming in here to yell "hoes mad" about accounting practices between owners. Like I've generally been of the opinion that players being paid huge sums well after their peak production is a bad trend because it leads to the next generation being told to accept low contracts for their peak production by teams using old retired/broken players as an excuse.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:37
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The hoes do be mad tho
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Dec 12, 2023 01:38
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People seemed to have missed this so I’m posting it again https://twitter.com/jonbecker_/status/1734344481850421703 The CBA has language in it standardizing how to deal with deferred money for luxury tax purposes. Applying that methodology here means Ohtani’s CBT cost is about $43.7M per year. This also means the rough “equivalent present value” of the deal is $437M. So think of this has 10 years $437M. Is that outrageous? I dunno, sounds about in line with what people were predicting once he needed elbow surgery. It’s still a new record. Is it wildly unfair that the Ohtani’s CBT hit is “only” $43.7M a year? I don’t think so.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:39
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I legit thought this sort of deferral was already not allowed  why is it just now happening then?
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Dec 12, 2023 01:40
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https://twitter.com/JDunnah/status/1734352204272664994
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Dec 12, 2023 01:42
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General Bullshit posted:I legit thought this sort of deferral was already not allowed It happens a bit infrequently but Ohtani makes enough endorsement money he doesn't need it up front. Most players would rather be paid their $40 million a year in the here and now when it's worth $40 million
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Dec 12, 2023 01:44
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Craptacular! posted:And bawfuls you get to watch the best player on Earth for years and that's cool and all, but I don't get coming in here to yell "hoes mad" about accounting practices between owners. Like I've generally been of the opinion that players being paid huge sums well after their peak production is a bad trend because it leads to the next generation being told to accept low contracts for their peak production by teams using old retired/broken players as an excuse. Fans here should know better than to be mad about teams “getting away with” a lower luxury tax bill. And to be clear, the Dodgers are still going to be on the hook for $40M+ worth of CBT budget every year of this deal. It’s not like they get to count him the same as a first year arb guy or something. He’s still the most expensive player on the roster for tax purposes.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:45
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bawfuls posted:And to be clear, the Dodgers are still going to be on the hook for $40M+ worth of CBT budget every year of this deal. It’s not like they get to count him the same as a first year arb guy or something. He’s still the most expensive player on the roster for tax purposes. It should be $70m every year you ignoramus that's a big part of what everyone's mad about Like go fire up a blunt and chill and be happy, nobody gives a poo poo of why you, bawfuls, actually think this deal is cool and good. WE KNOW
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Dec 12, 2023 01:46
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General Bullshit posted:I legit thought this sort of deferral was already not allowed Likely fear of Congress threatening the antitrust exemption.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:47
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I don't think anyone was offering him anywhere near this number without it being massively deferred and that a straight 10 year offer would be in the neighborhood of the present value number used by the league. I would imagine agents who represent guys capable of getting multi hundred million dollar contracts have people around that understand the time value of money. More anti-competitive than the CBT implications (which are overstated), is that very few teams have the ability to hook themselves into $80m/year a decade from now and use the free cashflow to pay more players now.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:48
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Tatsuta Age posted:It should be $70m every year you ignoramus that's a big part of what everyone's mad about Yesterday half the baseball internet was all “LOL $700M what an egregious overpay he’s never worth that much the Dodgers will be screwed!” And now many of those same people are furious that in reality he’s not getting a 10 year $700M contract. It’s more like 10 years $437M. Wolfy posted:I don't think anyone was offering him anywhere near this number without it being massively deferred and that a straight 10 year offer would be in the neighborhood of the present value number used by the league. I would imagine agents who represent guys capable of getting multi hundred million dollar contracts have people around that understand the time value of money.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:49
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bawfuls posted:So think of this has 10 years $437M. Is that outrageous? Yes.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:49
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Tatsuta Age posted:It should be $70m every year you ignoramus that's a big part of what everyone's mad about
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Dec 12, 2023 01:52
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Harlock posted:It happens a bit infrequently but Ohtani makes enough endorsement money he doesn't need it up front. Most players would rather be paid their $40 million a year in the here and now when it's worth $40 million I seem to recall there was a huge stink made about Pujols having deferred money and the 'services' bonus of $10MM and the league cracked down on it then.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:52
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > Sports Argument Stadium › MLB N/V 2023-24 Offseason: The 700 million dollar man (Annuity?)
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Dec 12, 2023 01:53
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NieR Occomata posted:I watched angels games last season and I wouldn’t wish such a plague on my worst enemy. By the end of the season I was cheering on ohtani starts where he pitched brilliantly and hit a couple of homers only for bullpen/rest of the lineup to gently caress it up around him because it would increase his chances of both a) getting paid in the offseason and b) not be on the loving Angels any more. I don’t care if he never makes or wins a WS, just give him a loving chance to play actual postseason baseball for gently caress’s sake. Quote for the loving truth
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Dec 12, 2023 01:55
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welcome posted:Yes.
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Dec 12, 2023 01:55
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