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Patrick Spens posted:Ohtani is 100% going back to Japan after he retires, and while the U.S. is unusually aggressive with taxing foreign income, I really doubt they can tax income earned by a foreign national living in a foreign country.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:01
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bawfuls posted:what if Japan has higher effective tax rates than California residents and so Ohtani ends up paying more in taxes this way anyway? Are we going to be mad that he paid taxes to the Japanese government instead of the American government? Yes? What the gently caress is this
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Dec 12, 2023 05:05
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why should I care that Ohtani pays US taxes instead of Japanese taxes? I hate most of what the US government spends money on anyway.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:06
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bawfuls posted:why should I care that Ohtani pays US taxes instead of Japanese taxes? I hate most of what the US government spends money on anyway. why should you, personally? because you live in California
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Dec 12, 2023 05:08
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It's state taxes, it goes to pay for things that you a resident of California use.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:08
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You mean like our state prisons that get more funding than our state university system? It's a small slice compared to the federal taxes he'd be avoiding anyway. Just doesn't move the needle for me.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:11
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Popete posted:It's state taxes, it goes to pay for things that you a resident of California use. Yeah, that's the part that sucks. I mean, I guess you can argue that the state will get something from sales taxes on merchandise bearing his likeness/etc, but that's the result of non-Ohtani wealth transfer, while he himself gets to take advantage of the benefits of the state without actually contributing anything to it basically.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:13
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lol I can't believe an Ohtani signing made Bawfuls turn into Rand Paul
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Dec 12, 2023 05:13
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bawfuls posted:You mean like our state prisons that get more funding than our state university system? It's a small slice compared to the federal taxes he'd be avoiding anyway. This seem like a rich person's take. I wish I didn't have to worry about money.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:14
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it really feels like a reach when we're reduced to critiquing the contract structure because of the reduced California state taxes he will pay over the course of his lifetime guess we'll just have to make him fall in love with Los Angeles so hard that he spends much of his retirement here
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Dec 12, 2023 05:15
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Canned Sunshine posted:This seem like a rich person's take. I wish I didn't have to worry about money.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:20
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bawfuls posted:I'm sorry but Ohtani specifically and rich people tax-dodging in general are not the reasons CA state social services are underfunded. CA Dems aren't clamoring to implement state-level UHC and restore 1960's level UC funding were it for fewer rich tax cheats. "Leave the rich people alone!"
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Dec 12, 2023 05:21
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I'm sure he has some good lawyers and CPAs at his disposal that will make sure he earns every cent and minimizes his tax liability. Ohtani seems like the kind of guy that will end up donating most of his money or doing something very charitable with it anyway.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:26
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i don't give a gently caress about shohei's contract, post some cool baseball in this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDUZGaPne9E
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Dec 12, 2023 05:28
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Bank posted:I'm sure he has some good lawyers and CPAs at his disposal that will make sure he earns every cent and minimizes his tax liability. Username/post combo  That's not really the point though. This isn't specifically about Ohtani.I worry about the implications of more deals becoming huge deferred contracts and the long term effects, income tax avoidance being one potential issue.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:29
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It's just pretty far down the list of things to complain about. It's on the same scale as complaining that athletes make hundreds of millions of dollars. Is it a sign of how distorted and hosed up our society is? Of course, but I'm not going to sit and seethe at the individual athlete about it. Like I'm more upset by Kershaw's comments about the Sisters or Mookie's comments about Bauer than I am about Ohtani's contract structure incidentally redirecting more of his lifetime tax payments to Japan instead of California.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:29
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You seem to think people are mad at Ohtani when that hasn't really been the case itt
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Dec 12, 2023 05:31
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I didn't say mad AT Ohtani, I said at the contract structure and it's effects, which is what you seem to be mad at?
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Dec 12, 2023 05:33
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mdemone posted:Shohei Ohtani is going to own a stake in the Dodgers franchise, eventually. I'd bet my life on it. Didn’t the Ricketts want to offer some FA a tiny stake in the Cubs and MLB firmly told them no? I might not even be thinking of the right sport.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:35
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I think you're taking peoples critiques of what is a ridiculous contract anyway you personally look at it as people "seething" with anger. I personally am glad Ohtani is getting paid but I'm skeptical of this kind of heavily deferred contract structure.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:36
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Popete posted:I think you're taking peoples critiques of what is a ridiculous contract anyway you personally look at it as people "seething" with anger. This is dumb, who cares. I wish baseball would start already so I can watch Ohtani hit massive dongs in Dodger Blue.
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Dec 12, 2023 05:48
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Bank posted:I'm sure he has some good lawyers and CPAs at his disposal that will make sure he earns every cent and minimizes his tax liability. He will spend his money in retirement like Ichiro: replacing windows at high schools
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Dec 12, 2023 05:53
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I am enjoying the gently caress out of tonight's posting  From both sides honestly. I can't think of a time I've seen "but what about local taxes" used as an argument
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Dec 12, 2023 05:54
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bawfuls posted:I'm sorry but Ohtani specifically and rich people tax-dodging in general are not the reasons CA state social services are underfunded. CA Dems aren't clamoring to implement state-level UHC and restore 1960's level UC funding were it for fewer rich tax cheats. So you are rich, lol. But yeah, it's this: Popete posted:I personally am glad Ohtani is getting paid but I'm skeptical of this kind of heavily deferred contract structure. And I just have issues whenever there's wealth transfer from the have-nots to the haves, because at the end of the day, the money being paid to Ohtani, is coming via the ownership group but as proxy because it's really from a society that he's basically not contributing anything material back to (I don't count sports entertainment as material for what it's worth, because it's a fleeting moment in time that does not improve livelihoods long-term). But all of this is within the rules established; I do think they should cap the amount that's allowed to be deferred in the next CBA, to something more reasonable like 10% of total contract value or whatever, but instead, the Owners are probably all going to jump on this train. I also just think it's funny that someone playing the lottery in California could win a $20M jackpot and possibly end up paying more in taxes than Ohtani will on his $700M contract, as it relates to state income taxes. If you don't think there's something wrong with that, then I don't know what to say...
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Dec 12, 2023 06:00
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So is the "10/471" thing like the same as if he signed a 10/471 contract today split evenly across the 10 years or is it more money because the value would go down each year and be something like, oh I don't know, 10/390 or something ie is it 471 in today's money or the same as signing a 10/471 contract the normal way
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Dec 12, 2023 06:03
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All's I can say is that I hope his philanthropic donations are more than just a high school ball field.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:03
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you must be a rich rear end in a top hat to have an awful opinion like this! you guys are overreacting woah woah we are just expressing a bit of mild skepticism, don't get hysterical!
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Dec 12, 2023 06:04
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Intruder posted:So is the "10/471" thing like the same as if he signed a 10/471 contract today split evenly across the 10 years or is it more money because the value would go down each year and be something like, oh I don't know, 10/390 or something
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Dec 12, 2023 06:06
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Between Mookie Freddie and Shohei they're now on the hook for $850 million in deferred salary in the 30s and 40s Hope that media bubble doesn't burst in the next 20 years!
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Dec 12, 2023 06:07
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R.D. Mangles posted:has anything happened or have i missed 200 posts of squabbling over Contract Details That and some Bernieposting for good measure
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Dec 12, 2023 06:09
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NieR Occomata posted:Also all mlb contracts are fully guaranteed. I seriously cannot think of a single person who loses out on this deal outside of Ohtani, the guy who proposed the deal. Like who cares? Who does this hurt? Small market owners unwilling to spend money crying about big market teams using creative accounting? Those fuckers are worthless parasites anyways, gently caress them. I wasn't sure if they were guaranteed, but if the money is locked in then good for Ohtani. Still stinks that the Dodgers are the ones benefitting, but whatever. At least The (Very Reserved and Quiet) Decision is over with.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:10
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bawfuls posted:It's 10/460 (or 471 or whatever that number is) in the same way a normal non-deferred contract would be, if someone got $46M each year for 10 years. It's $46M/year for 10 years for CBT purposes, but his actual, pre-tax take home income is $2M/year for 10 years, and the remainder is to be paid out $68M/year from 2034 to 2043.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:10
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So the Dodgers don't get any tax hit for the years they're paying him after those initial 10?
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Dec 12, 2023 06:11
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Canned Sunshine posted:It's $46M/year for 10 years for CBT purposes, but his actual, pre-tax take home income is $2M/year for 10 years, and the remainder is to be paid out $68M/year from 2034 to 2043.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:12
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Intruder posted:So the Dodgers don't get any tax hit for the years they're paying him after those initial 10? Exactly, he did them a solid in reducing their CBT impact so they can sign other players, but at the expense of his own personal income because for the 10 years of the contract, he'll have earned $20M. Then for the next 10, he earns $680M. Edit: bawfuls posted:Yes and if you apply boring normal accounting methods to estimate the "equivalent" of those deferred payments if they were all paid out evenly over 10 years, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of $46M each year. That's where the CBT number comes from. You can quibble with the number a bit based on what discount rate you think is most accurate if you're into that sort of thing. Sure, but you're making it sound like next year, he'll make $46M. He won't. He's making $2M. And he's making $2M each year for the next 9 after that.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:13
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Gonna go out on a limb and say there's zero chance this type of deferral survives the next CBA negotiations
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Dec 12, 2023 06:13
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Canned Sunshine posted:Sure, but you're making it sound like next year, he'll make $46M. He won't. He's making $2M. And he's making $2M each year for the next 9 after that.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:16
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we were so busy squawking about dumb contract bullshit we missed this incredible content https://twitter.com/Dodgers/status/1734395865425719641 I am faithfully bound to Kershawvatar until his retirement but this is quality avy material for another Dodgers poster (ideally animated with the shake and all) 
bawfuls fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 06:19
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Pretty hosed up of Ohtani to go to the Dodgers when Arte Moreno was also willing to pay him $2m a year
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Dec 12, 2023 06:23
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bawfuls posted:No, Intruder asked a question about what the 10/471 numbers meant and I explained it. It's a shorthand to more easily compare his contract to the type we are accustomed to seeing. It's not though, because it's only for CBT purposes. Usually with big contracts, even with referrals, you'll see the CBT and actual player-obtained AAV at least in some way reflective; for Ohtani, there's a huge difference between the "advertised" 10y/$700M announced, the $46M/year CBT AAV, and then his actual $2M/year income, to which... bawfuls posted:We don't really know this. He got 10/$460M. That's still a new record and is right in the realm that people were expecting when his elbow surgery was announced. You can say he got 10/$20M followed by $10/$680M, or whatever, but it's important to clarify that in no way, will Ohtani ever see $46M/year. It's just for Dodgers CBT-dodging accounting purposes, and while we've seen deferrals before, nothing ever on this scale. Honestly, I'm legitimately glad he got paid, but he kinda hosed over other players with this, and he absolutely should not have deferred the $680M income as interest-free. gently caress the Owners. Forever. Always.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:23
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