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zoux posted:People should probably stop picking slogans that they have to constantly explain. You'd think that would've been the lesson of "Defund the Police" but I guess not. But I guess if it didn't have that transgressive radical hint to it, they'd chant something else. These slogans aren't an accident, and I imagine that like the defund the police slogan they are pushed because many of those pushing them believe the worst-possible-interpretation of them and are trying to get them accepted by more moderate people as a way of pushing them closer to that point. At least that's what I've personally witnessed multiple times. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 19:34
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Fister Roboto posted:This isn't possible because bad faith actors are going to constantly pick apart whatever other slogan they come up with. The liberation movement isn't uniform, though. A problem (that is unavoidable, I think) is that you can't necessarily control what other people say and they can co-opt your catchphrase and give it a meaning you did not want it to have.
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Dec 12, 2023 19:35
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zoux posted:My friend had people outside her synagogue protesting. Just a random synagogue in Austin. Same one that had an arson attempt against it in '21 that caused extensive damage. She's very stressed out about it. I’m sorry to hear that. What synagogue was it?
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Dec 12, 2023 19:36
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theCalamity posted:I’m sorry to hear that. What synagogue was it? Most likely the Austin Congregation Beth Israel
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Dec 12, 2023 19:37
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GlyphGryph posted:Most likely the Austin Congregation Beth Israel It was. The actual fire damage was limited to just the door but there was extensive smoke damage as well so they still haven't resumed services there. There's a local catholic church that's giving them space.
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Dec 12, 2023 19:41
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zoux posted:The university presidents hosed up so bad they didn't have much of a choice. If this is the same deal that they working on last year, then it wouldn't be an expansion to the level that was in the Biden stimulus bill, but it would make it fully refundable and be about a 33% increase over the current benefits for the average parent. The stimulus bill version was about a 110% increase if your kids were under 7. Edit: According to politico, the version they are talking about will cost around $50 billion per year. The stimulus bill version cost about $160 billion per year, so that would match the figures and means they are probably trying to revive the same version that was part of the compromise deal last year. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 19:44
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Eric Cantonese posted:I would not be surprised if it turns out he was a GOP sleeper agent. He is an amazing combination of right wing talking points, administrative incompetence and corruption. The fact that he prevailed in the primary has really shaken my faith in the idea of ranked choice voting. IRV is truly the worst possible implementation of ranked choice voting. Seems like every time it's adopted it soon produces terrible results and the electorate reverts it back to plurality voting, almost as if it's intentionally designed to poison the population against the idea of ranked choice voting specifically and electoral reform generally.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:11
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There is no criticism of Israel that won't be 1. called antisemitic by people who are covering for the little fascist state and 2. get at least partially co-opted by Nazis so they can yell about (((The Jews))). There is no sweet spot of rephrasing that will make bad faith actors see the light, that's a holdover from End of History way of thinking.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:20
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And yet, it can still be meaningful and important, because it turns out those two groups aren't the only ones who matter.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:24
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Byzantine posted:There is no criticism of Israel that won't be 1. called antisemitic by people who are covering for the little fascist state and 2. get at least partially co-opted by Nazis so they can yell about (((The Jews))). Even in that scenario, if you are the head of a major organization and voluntarily appear to defend your organization against accusations of anti-Semitism, then you should be able to clear the lowest possible bar of not saying that you aren't taking a position on whether calling for another holocaust is bad or not and avoid making weird legal arguments about how you wouldn't take action until someone actually starts genociding people in your public statements. It was a trap question and not asked in good faith, but they basically got caught up in trying to speak legalese and tripped over the lowest bar possible to give Stefenik a slam dunk 30-second clip. These people run billion dollar organizations that are considered the places to go to get the best educations in the world. Not completely owning yourself with an incredibly obvious bait question should be something you expect from them to earn their millions of dollars per year from their employers.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:28
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https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1734653928883597648?s=46&t=A_iY-gupVf13dcIJPetZhQ Well gee Susan, how do you think that happened
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Dec 12, 2023 20:31
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zoux posted:It was. The actual fire damage was limited to just the door but there was extensive smoke damage as well so they still haven't resumed services there. There's a local catholic church that's giving them space. Don’t give a poo poo about slogans but hot drat protesting outside a synagogue that’s still abandoned due to a hate crime is pretty loving tactless.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Even in that scenario, if you are the head of a major organization and voluntarily appear to defend your organization against accusations of anti-Semitism, then you should be able to clear the lowest possible bar of not saying that you aren't taking a position on whether calling for another holocaust is bad or not and avoid making weird legal arguments about how you wouldn't take action until someone actually starts genociding people in your public statements. thats kinda my view. alot of academic types fall into a trap of thinking everyone understands/cares to understand academic terms and ideals and processes so when they answer in a way that she answered those question. answers are ment to provoke more questions and go into the weeds of issues, thats great in academia and with friends and forums or whatever. but its loving dumb when its a clear bad faith trap. that being said, she had no good answer that would look good probably.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:39
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Don’t give a poo poo about slogans but hot drat protesting outside a synagogue that’s still abandoned due to a hate crime is pretty loving tactless. yeah, that feels dumb. I reminds me of those protesters who were protesting that falafle resturant in philly and then someone in the crowd smashed some windows. its like a random jewish resuraunt , its not helping glass gaza. Go protest shaprios or fettermans house or whatever. smashing some jewish owned resturant is a bad loving look. Like i agree with the anger but some of it is sadly misplaced or redirected by real stupid and lovely people.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:42
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, that feels dumb. I reminds me of those protesters who were protesting that falafle resturant in philly and then someone in the crowd smashed some windows. its like a random jewish resuraunt , its not helping glass gaza. Go protest shaprios or fettermans house or whatever. smashing some jewish owned resturant is a bad loving look. Like i agree with the anger but some of it is sadly misplaced or redirected by real stupid and lovely people. It wasn't a random jewish restaurant the owner does a lot of work with Israel (to the point where he was named the "food ambassador of israel") and was donating his proceeds to an "impartial" medical organization (that has ties to the IDF). Calling it "random" completely plays into the narrative of antisemitism gone wild that is going to make me snap at the next congregant that calls the synagogue I work at.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:46
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, that feels dumb. I reminds me of those protesters who were protesting that falafle resturant in philly and then someone in the crowd smashed some windows. its like a random jewish resuraunt , its not helping glass gaza. Go protest shaprios or fettermans house or whatever. smashing some jewish owned resturant is a bad loving look. Like i agree with the anger but some of it is sadly misplaced or redirected by real stupid and lovely people. aBagorn posted:It wasn't a random jewish restaurant the owner does a lot of work with Israel (to the point where he was named the "food ambassador of israel") and was donating his proceeds to an "impartial" medical organization (that has ties to the IDF). I hope it doesn't antagonize you by asking this, but are you sure the attacker knew all that?
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Dec 12, 2023 20:52
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1734653928883597648?s=46&t=A_iY-gupVf13dcIJPetZhQ This woman may as well have "I am a dipshit" tattooed across her forehead with the way she's completely incredulous every time something totally expected happens.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:54
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aBagorn posted:It wasn't a random jewish restaurant the owner does a lot of work with Israel (to the point where he was named the "food ambassador of israel") and was donating his proceeds to an "impartial" medical organization (that has ties to the IDF). Why does holding a Jewish person who donated food to a medical organization responsible for Israeli policy make more sense than protesting John Fetterman or the Israeli embassy? Why did they smash his windows? The restaurant was also part of 47 Jewish/Israeli restaurants that were targeted for protests in the area. Were all of them being targeted for donating to a medical organization with ties to the IDF? It's literally the same "Jews = Israel" association that people make when they want to accuse any criticism of Israel of being anti-Semitic.
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Dec 12, 2023 20:55
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GlyphGryph posted:And yet, it can still be meaningful and important, because it turns out those two groups aren't the only ones who matter. Those two groups cover the entire American government and media apparatus (besides like three people, to give Tlaib her due). Byzantine fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 20:55
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theCalamity posted:We’re there calls for genocide against Jews in campuses or was it the “from the river to the sea” slogan that people are twisting into a call for genocide in bad faith? Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Uhh... "calling for the genocide of the Jews" and "advocating for another holocaust" are a little more than "anti-Zionism." That actually seems like a slam on anti-Zionism. First, Stefanik equates chanting "intifada" as calling for global genocide against all Jews. (the following videos are timestamped) https://www.youtube.com/live/oklC-xpSOWc?si=2sJJjmqY1rkR2jFH&t=5449 Stefanik posted:"So, based upon your testimony, you understand that this call for intifada is to commit genocide against the Jewish people in Israel and globally. Correct?" https://www.youtube.com/live/oklC-xpSOWc?si=1sIE7OH9Zmv1GrWw&t=18262 quote:"Stefanik: Yes or no? Calling for the genocide of Jews does not constitute bullying and harassment? Absolutely none of the stories covering it have included that context, though. They're all propping up Stefanik's attempt to dunk on those evil liberal elite college deans. It really pisses me off, because I'm in Pennsylvania so I'm constantly hearing this narrative that UPenn is full of college students chanting for the genocide of the Jewish people and that's total horseshit. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 20:56
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Don’t give a poo poo about slogans but hot drat protesting outside a synagogue that’s still abandoned due to a hate crime is pretty loving tactless. I'm not sure if it's abandoned, just that they don't hold temple services there right now. But someone who thinks that a rando synagogue in Texas has anything to do with US I/P policy isn't really the brightest bulb anyway. What's crazy is that she wasn't sure if it was neo-Nazis or anti-Zionists. A couple of years ago we had some neo nazis come to Austin and rile up a whole bunch of people, so while the Jewish population in Texas is really small, just a few hundred thousand, they've been under some stress in the last couple of years. You may have seen in the news about how a state GOP PAC called "Pale Horse Strategies" got caught holding a meeting with Nick Fuentes. I was a little worried that the state Republicans would do the whole "Oh, so everyone who is blah blah blah is an anti-semite now?" but more or less every elected Republican official repudiated Fuentes and PHS and that's a lot better than playing footsie with Nazis. I don't know if the reaction would've been the same had the story not dropped on 10/8, but I'm glad it shook out that way. Not that the state GOP doesn't have an anti-semite problem, they couldn't ratify a SREC statement condemning anti-semitism in all its forms because "Oh, so everyone who is blah blah blah is an anti-semite now?" reasons.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:05
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Mooseontheloose posted:I mean there are attacks against Jewish students happening. So there is a real safety threat to Jewish and Arab students nation wide. https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/09/education-department-antisemitism-islamophobia-investigation/ The Department of Education is investigating antisemitism issues at a dozen universities, including Penn, so the university heads should definitely have been more prepared to address the issue directly. Imagine if a Jewish student at Penn asked the faculty or staff about their concerns and got these sorts of answers.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:11
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XboxPants posted:You have to go through a five-hour video to get this context, but when Stefanik says "calling for genocide", she is specifically referring to calls for "intifada" (which as I understand it, actually refers to Palestinian resistance against Israel?) That's why these presidents were saying poo poo like, "well it depends on context", because yeah, it depends on what you mean when you say "calling for genocide of jews". Yeah same. It sucks. I haven’t seen much attacks in the president around me outside she hosed up answers in a bad situation. Part of me is glad i graduated in 2018 before covid(would have hosed me up bad) and various big protests hit.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:14
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The university presidents probably should have just quoted Satre back at Stefanik instead of hemming and hawing about wether genocide is acceptable discourse. Just don't answer the loaded question. Love that the right gets to define what antisemitism is and then level it Americans that don't support Israel's genocide and apartheid.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:17
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If you find yourself being asked the question "Does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct? Yes or no." with "It depends" and "Not unless they start acting on it," when you know you are on national television and the person questioning you is looking to attack you, then you need to take 5 seconds of media training. It's not just that, if you watch the entire exchange. They say they wouldn't tolerate calling for racist violence, but say they don't take a position on "political issues" even if they are personally abhorrent. They say they would rescind someone's acceptance if they espoused racist views, but aren't sure if they would if someone espoused anti-Semitic views. They just walk into rake after rake of obvious traps. If you are being paid millions to represent and manage the best schools in the world, then you have to be smart enough to not do something like that. The whole point was to piss off alumni, donors, and board members and get them to ask them to step down to send a message. They answered it in the dumbest way possible and basically loaded the gun for her. The whole thing was stupid and obviously in bad faith, but you have to clear the most basic bar of not calling the holocaust "a political issue" when you are at a hearing being accused of not being concerned about anti-Semitism. It's entirely unfair and the presidents were trying to thread a legal answer to the question, but just because it is unfair doesn't mean you can voluntarily accept an invitation to speak and be careless. If they hadn't insisted on making those distinctions or giving legalese answers, then it would just be one of the ten million congressional hearings that disappeared into the ether and were forgotten about. Just say, "The holocaust was bad. We tolerate free speech even when we find it offensive." and don't address or admit to awkward hypocrisies over and over. I don't think anyone disagrees that Stefenik was looking for a gotcha and doing it in bad faith, but they teed her up and the fact that all three of them did it in a row and just tried to deflect by saying it was a political issue made it even more juicy as a clip to get outraged at. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 21:17
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Don’t give a poo poo about slogans but hot drat protesting outside a synagogue that’s still abandoned due to a hate crime is pretty loving tactless. I doubt its a lack of tact, and more likely the people calling the shots are actually anti semites in addition to being pro palestine (if they were even pro palestine) if they are treating a random synagoge as a standin for Israel GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 21:22
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Don't see any article on it up yet, but Democrats just won their appeal in New York and will get another chance to redraw the maps for 2024 through 2030. They probably won't be able to be as extreme as their previous attempted gerrymander, but it will probably knock off 5 GOP seats. It is going to partially depend on how the GOP resurgence in Long Island and parts of NYC holds up. So far, it has held for the last 4 years or so. If it collapses or goes back to pre-2016 voting patterns, it could be up to 7 fewer GOP seats. Edit: Article up: https://twitter.com/AP/status/1734670026991395097 quote:ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — New York’s highest court on Tuesday ordered the state to draw new congressional districts ahead of the 2024 elections, giving Democrats a potential advantage in what is expected to be a battleground for control of the U.S. House. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Dec 12, 2023 |
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Dec 12, 2023 21:27
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Nah, lets see that 23-3 gerrymander
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Dec 12, 2023 21:28
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XboxPants posted:You have to go through a five-hour video to get this context, but when Stefanik says "calling for genocide", she is specifically referring to calls for "intifada" (which as I understand it, actually refers to Palestinian resistance against Israel?) That's why these presidents were saying poo poo like, "well it depends on context", because yeah, it depends on what you mean when you say "calling for genocide of jews". I know it's obnoxious to be a Monday Morning Quarterback, but I think it is common knowledge that with these kinds of GOP House inquiries, you will almost never get full context and that you need to expect that anything you say will taken out of context and turned into something else. You are there to get soundbites pulled out of you. Do not make it easy for them.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:31
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After the recent Senate announcements and court rulings, 2024 is going to be a bizzaro version 2012 where Democrats actually have better than even odds of taking the House, are almost certainly going to get destroyed in the Senate, and have a 50/50 shot at the Presidency. The House used to be hopelessly tilted towards Republicans and was a major weak spot, but now the Senate and Presidency - where Dems historically overperformed - are looking worse than the House.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:38
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So is Ukraine aid dead or what? I kind of feel like McConnnel has mostly given up on convincing Republicans to pass it and is just trying to see if they can squeeze out massive concessions on the border and hope that goes somewhere.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:42
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AKA Pseudonym posted:So is Ukraine aid dead or what? I kind of feel like McConnnel has mostly given up on convincing Republicans to pass it and is just trying to see if they can squeeze out massive concessions on the border and hope that goes somewhere. Dead for at least this year. Dems refused to pass Republican immigration policies that were attached and talks broke down. Some Dems say they are willing to "meet in the middle" on immigration to get the big supplemental bill passed (which includes a lot of different things, but this biggest chunk is the Ukraine aid), but Republicans have to drop the more extreme asks. No details on what "meet in the middle" means and Dems said the talks are dead until the next session of congress (early January) at least.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:46
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If you find yourself being asked the question "Does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct? Yes or no." with "It depends" and "Not unless they start acting on it," when you know you are on national television and the person questioning you is looking to attack you, then you need to take 5 seconds of media training. I can't find this exchange, can you quote or timestamp it for me?
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Dec 12, 2023 21:50
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Dead for at least this year. I guess my question is "how dead is it come January?" Because I feel like the answer is still "pretty dead." Johnson is conditioning passage on some vague nonsense about "strategy for winning." Plus they'll be in the thick of avoiding another shutdown. Seems like a steep hill to climb.
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Dec 12, 2023 21:58
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:After the recent Senate announcements and court rulings, 2024 is going to be a bizzaro version 2012 where Democrats actually have better than even odds of taking the House, are almost certainly going to get destroyed in the Senate, and have a 50/50 shot at the Presidency. This isn't that surprising, it's been predicted for a while thanks to state demographic drift and generational migration patterns. The Democrats get more votes, so they can sometimes win the electoral college and overcome or undo gerrymandered House districts. The Senate's gerrymander is set in stone and red states outnumber blue states
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Dec 12, 2023 22:01
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Do other countries have a quarterly crisis where one party tries to pass unpopular policies by threatening the government with insolvency?
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Dec 12, 2023 22:01
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XboxPants posted:I can't find this exchange, can you quote or timestamp it for me? The Penn and Harvard presidents mention it in their apology video and said they would clarify their policies to state that anti-Semitic behavior was counted the same as racist behavior for purposes of harassment and hate speech for current students and prospective students and would review the code of conduct for other inconsistencies. quote:In a short video released Wednesday night, Magill said the university would immediately review and clarify its policies on hate speech. quote:On Wednesday evening, Ms. Magill apologized for her testimony. quote:“There are some who have confused a right to free expression with the idea that Harvard will condone calls for violence against Jewish students,” Dr. Gay said. “Let me be clear: Calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community, or any religious or ethnic group are vile, they have no place at Harvard, and those who threaten our Jewish students will be held to account.”
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Dec 12, 2023 22:03
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XboxPants posted:I can't find this exchange, can you quote or timestamp it for me? With the exchange you quoted, it's an unfortunate reality that you need to be able to respond in a way that cannot be misconstrued when taken out of context. The only thing that matters to most people is the last question and answer in the excerpt you shared. With respect to Claudine Gay... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/12/...us%20newspaper. quote:“At Harvard,” Ms. Stefanik asked Dr. Gay, “does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard’s rules of bullying and harassment? Yes or no?”
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Dec 12, 2023 22:07
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Mendrian posted:Do other countries have a quarterly crisis where one party tries to pass unpopular policies by threatening the government with insolvency? No. Generally if another country finds itself in a legislative logjam like this, the legislature automatically dissolves and a snap election is held. Only in the US do the people who cause this sort of self-inflicted crisis get to stay for the remainder of their original terms
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Dec 12, 2023 22:13
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AKA Pseudonym posted:I guess my question is "how dead is it come January?" Because I feel like the answer is still "pretty dead." Johnson is conditioning passage on some vague nonsense about "strategy for winning." CBS might have answered your question almost as soon as you asked it. They say the White House has indicated that it would accept 2.5 out of the 4 extreme border demands Republicans have made with promises to never use some of the detention powers the law gives them (but, they would be ready and waiting for Trump if he became President or for any other future President). Seems like a pretty bad deal, but we'll see what the specifics are and if Republicans and Senate Dems are on board with it. https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1734679769155785071
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Dec 12, 2023 22:14
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