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on second thought, i totally support the guy with no experience in the legal field starting "a small consumer class action firm that is skilled at bar-compliant plaintiff outreach and partners with larger firms where appropriate" because I could always use more work
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Dec 14, 2023 19:23
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OTOH if it feels good, do it.
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Dec 14, 2023 19:47
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Y'all are being very negative nancys, do you not realize this esquire hopeful will simply disrupt this entrenched and antedeluvian legal profession by smarts, and AI. You see, their goal is simply to start a highly specialized litigation lawfirm which is fun, and easy to do. Merely going to a law school and acquiring a simple education is all you need to to do highly specific, highly complex litigation which in no way opens you up for professional and general liability, nor is the profession famous for having any requirements of reputation, professional business connections or business development. Frankly, I think they should feel like the sky is the limit. Hell, what if they make it to the Supreme Court?
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Dec 14, 2023 19:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Those requirements exist for actual reasons, they aren't just gatekeepers. Litigation firms, especially plaintiff's firms, are very different from other kinds of business and someone without a litigation background running a litigation firm is a recipe for disaster. EwokEntourage posted:on second thought, i totally support the guy with no experience in the legal field starting "a small consumer class action firm that is skilled at bar-compliant plaintiff outreach and partners with larger firms where appropriate" because I could always use more work I've already done this exact thing. Its the "Tech" part of the two-company structure law firm I sold my stake in to my attorney cofounder. EwokEntourage posted:the small legal teams eliminating specific, narrow types of fraud is called "regulatory agencies" Eliminating is a strong word, fighting a good fight for sure. For the law school detractors: I hear that you believe my eyes may not be sufficiently open to how you perceive the reality of lawyering/law school. That said, I'm probably not in the same position as you or most considering law school. I already achieved more than I thought I could in a career, and have worked to grow a law firm for the past 5 years. I'm successful enough and far enough along to get to explore different options that seem interesting. Some of those options may necessitate law school. I don't feel compelled to prove that ITT in order to seek perspectives from those who have done part-time/weekend/remote law school, so maybe chill with the judgmental posts?
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Dec 14, 2023 20:02
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How do have a law firm if you aren’t a lawyer ??
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Dec 14, 2023 20:05
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He was the IT guy in a law firm. Says so in his post right above. Why he couldn't merely read the law with his business partner or why this firm couldn't do what he's asking about by hiring a new lawyer to do that or why he sold his stake I leave to the imagination.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:11
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I just don’t know how you get laid doing online law school.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:15
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CarForumPoster posted:Hey, I am thinking about going to law school because I love fraud investigations and feel strongly about fighting consumer and government fraud in the US. Alternatively I'll continue to start and run businesses that will be aided by or may require a JD. Just get a ACAMs/other fraud related cert. It's not easy but you're only spending like 600 bux every 3 years for recert and I've managed to get extra work just on that alone (I am a lawyer as well but wxpressly hired for the AML work). Also no need to go.to school! Shageletic fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Dec 14, 2023 |
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Dec 14, 2023 20:25
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Nice piece of fish posted:He was the IT guy in a law firm. Says so in his post right above. Why he couldn't merely read the law with his business partner or why this firm couldn't do what he's asking about by hiring a new lawyer to do that or why he sold his stake I leave to the imagination. Ah I missed things added in later
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Dec 14, 2023 20:25
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If you want to go to law school still I’d go the IP route with your back ground (now that I’ve seen it) you’d probably be very successful
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Dec 14, 2023 20:26
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Lawyers with a hard sciences background are also highly sought/valued in the startup space. But then again that sector is rapidly shrinking for lawyer jobs.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:30
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CarForumPoster posted:I've already done this exact thing. Its the "Tech" part of the two-company structure law firm I sold my stake in to my attorney cofounder. how did you sell a stake if you didn't have ownership? quote:Sorta, we’re a tech enabled defense litigation firm now but probably the cheapest one on the country. I run the tech side and my business partner runs the law firm side.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:31
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Toona the Cat posted:I just don’t know how you get laid doing online law school. Toona asking the important questions.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:33
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Shageletic posted:Lawyers with a hard sciences background are also highly sought/valued in the startup space. But then again that sector is rapidly shrinking for lawyer jobs. What makes you say it's rapidly shrinking? I am a lawyer with a hard science background in a startup, and I haven't seen any decrease in postings or opportunities.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:36
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CarForumPoster posted:Who hurt you? Was it law school? As a not very proud grad of Loyola Chicago, I wouldn't go there if I were you. The one real advantage I had was being able to take the bar exam in one of LUC's buildings, where I had a ID card to get through security. Dozens of extremely anxious people got to see me swipe through while I snickered at their plight of having no way in. I kind of regret not being nicer that day.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:42
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Muir posted:What makes you say it's rapidly shrinking? I am a lawyer with a hard science background in a startup, and I haven't seen any decrease in postings or opportunities. Plenty of postings but there is an insane lower amount of startups this year than last and hardly any of them interview let alone hire. This is just from experience before I landed my gov job this year.
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Dec 14, 2023 20:49
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euphronius posted:Law school is a real school with a curriculum. It’s not an MBA
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Dec 14, 2023 21:05
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CarForumPoster posted:I've already done this exact thing. Its the "Tech" part of the two-company structure law firm I sold my stake in to my attorney cofounder. I like you, you have moxie. This is the kind of fight that will distinguish you from other law students. I mean this sincerely.
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Dec 14, 2023 21:08
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CFP you literally helped found a law tech startup and worked at a law firm. Have you considered just asking the lawyers you actually know the same stuff you asked this thread? What did they say?
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Dec 15, 2023 00:02
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trevorreznik posted:As a not very proud grad of Loyola Chicago, I wouldn't go there if I were you. This is exactly what I'm looking for! Why not? pmchem posted:CFP you literally helped found a law tech startup and worked at a law firm. Have you considered just asking the lawyers you actually know the same stuff you asked this thread? What did they say? Yes, all of them followed fairly traditional law school paths (I tended to hire lawyers who were fed clerks and/or big law). They know people who went to garbage tier night schools like Barry. There are a few outliers (e.g. they know a Barry grad making >$250K and another doing real deal complex lit FCA/RICO) but for the most part going to the Barrys of the world does not generate great lawyers. Its worth mentioning that I only asked the thread one question regarding non traditional paths. Following that, I was informed by some posters that I should not go to law school, and discussion ensued. Still I really just wanna hear from the people who did night school/got their JD remotely/went to one of the schools that offer remote even if they were FT. EwokEntourage posted:how did you sell a stake if you didn't have ownership? I owned a portion of a DE C-Corp that took investment to provide IP/services to the law firm. We used a similar legal structure to Atrium/ClearSpire, its mentioned in this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/markcohen1/2020/01/28/atrium-sheds-lawyers-why-is-this-such-a-big-legal-industry-story/?sh=3eed9ba121e9. If I was to start another as a non-lawyer in TYOOL 2023 I'd do an Arizona ABS firm though. Phil Moscowitz posted:I like you, you have moxie. This is the kind of fight that will distinguish you from other law students. I mean this sincerely. TY its appreciated. I'm surprised/a little frustrated that posters have sincere opinions about what could be a major life goal without any curiosity. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 00:49
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CarForumPoster posted:Following that, I was informed by some posters that I should not go to law school, and discussion ensued. Telling the people who have answered your questions that they’re wrong and you know better than them is not what most people call discussion. CarForumPoster posted:Still I really just wanna hear from the people who did night school/got their JD remotely/went to one of the schools that offer remote even if they were FT. You did hear from them and then you told them they were wrong and you knew better than them. But hey, I guess they didn’t feel compelled to prove that ITT in order to answer your questions.
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Dec 15, 2023 00:55
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ulmont posted:Telling the people who have answered your questions that they’re wrong and you know better than them is not what most people call discussion. Who made a post about night/remote/weekend school that I said was wrong but was not wrong? Edit: if I did, sorry to them. I definitely felt defensive when making some of these posts and that may have led to that. My bad if so.
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Dec 15, 2023 01:02
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CarForumPoster posted:Who made a post about night/remote/weekend school that I said was wrong but was not wrong? Regulars are just breaking your balls. Part of the drill.
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Dec 15, 2023 01:06
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Regulars are just breaking your balls. Part of the drill. Oh in that case I’m sorry that ChatGPT will replace all of you and I can’t wait for lawyer salaries to fall to 2009 levels so I can hire you to screen calls from crazy pro se sov cits until you die an unfulfilled husk Billable requirement: 2100 hours
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Dec 15, 2023 01:13
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CarForumPoster posted:Who made a post about night/remote/weekend school that I said was wrong but was not wrong? I mean, here's the thing. Statistically speaking. We get the "hay dudes should I lawyer" question in this thread every few weeks. For almost everyone the answer is "no," or at least "you should think about this more seriously than just asking some random dudes on the internet." Generally speaking, if law school is a good idea for you, you already know it, and you don't have to ask us; your dad is already a lawyer, or you already have connections at a law firm, or you've wanted to be a public defender since you were eight, or you're a paralegal and your boss told you to go to law school, or whatever. In your case, ok, you already have connections at a law firm and a legal track record. What do you think getting a law degree adds to your CV? You tell us. If it's just checking the box on firm leadership, why are you doing this yourself rather than hiring someone you already know who's already got a law degree and expertise leading teams in litigation? Being a law firm's tech guy is not the same as deciding "hey, this is a good lawsuit to file, and this other one isn't and will bankrupt the company if we file it" and that's the skill you need to have in litigation leadership. (This is especially true in class action litigation; the modern courts are extremely hostile to class certifcations and you really need to be able to find the golden cases to make that kind of thing work these days). Why do you need to be the guy? Don't you know someone else who can do *that* job better than you would? Conversely, if you already are the guy, or if you've developed the perfect tech AI solution that will replace litigators, or whatever, then why does what law school you go to matter? Just go to Bob Loblaw's School of Night Court or whatever, then once you pass the bar, go kick all our asses. It probably won't work because (as others have pointed out) law school isn't like an MBA and generally most people can't hold down a job and go to law school at the same time, not and pass the bar afterwards, it's just too difficult (I know people who have tried. Great folks and not stupid. Emphasis "tried.") Anyway, sure, technically none of that is responding to your question -- you were just asking about night/weekend remote law schools. But that question implies a lot of other questions and the answers to most of those questions are either "wait, what?" or "oh no". So we're trying to answer those questions for you before you get a couple years down the road and realize there were more questions that needed asking. Said another way, either you're a normal person and the answer is "no don't" or you're a special flower and shouldn't be bothering to ask us at all. If you are a special flower, though, even then, there's a big "why bother?" question that I don't really see how you've answered. If the tech is that great, just hire your local Lionel Hutz as your frontman and have your AI robot tell him how to lawyer; if the tech isn't that great, then you probably want to focus on improving your own expertise in tech and hire an experienced litigator rather than trying to bootstrap yourself. Why do *you* have to be the guy here? Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 01:24
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CarForumPoster posted:Oh in that case I’m sorry that ChatGPT will replace all of you and I can’t wait for lawyer salaries to fall to 2009 levels so I can hire you to screen calls from crazy pro se sov cits until you die an unfulfilled husk 
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Dec 15, 2023 01:46
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Oh just found this for part-time law schools. Fordham makes sense. https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/part-time-law-rankings?_sort=my_rankings-asc
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Dec 15, 2023 01:50
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CarForumPoster posted:Oh in that case I’m sorry that ChatGPT will replace all of you and I can’t wait for lawyer salaries to fall to 2009 levels so I can hire you to screen calls from crazy pro se sov cits until you die an unfulfilled husk I thought AI was already replacing a lot of call screening? The threat to litigators isn't call screening. The threat to litigators is the day you can make a judge satisfied to yell at a robot in court instead of yelling at a junior attorney like god intended.
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Dec 15, 2023 01:56
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Whole bunch of negative Nellies ITT who don't know that OP is different because he's smart and driven and motivated. Follow your dreams, ignore the haters.
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Dec 15, 2023 01:59
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It's fine, until they program the robot to feel fear it just won't hit that sweet spot.
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Dec 15, 2023 02:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I mean, here's the thing. As you noted I didn’t ask that question. What it implies to you is your experience, and that’s what I’d like you to draw from if you have something relevant. I hope you can forgive me if I don’t feel compelled to produce facts for other questions, AI straw men, false dichotomies, or any other examples you created out of whole cloth and insisted are traceable to my original question because of ~the implication~ https://youtu.be/MZ1lc6KASWg?si=FQ4sY7IvS7c9osOE Hey friends, are there good remote law schools? Has anyone here been through one?
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Dec 15, 2023 02:01
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Eminent Domain posted:It's fine, until they program the robot to feel fear it just won't hit that sweet spot. don't give this guy ideas! our jobs are on the line here!
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Dec 15, 2023 02:06
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Oh we’re gonna get replaced by ChatGPT? I don’t know computers could develop substance abuse issues and suicidal ideations
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Dec 15, 2023 02:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The threat to litigators isn't call screening. The threat to litigators is the day you can make a judge satisfied to yell at a robot in court instead of yelling at a junior attorney like god intended. lol
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Dec 15, 2023 02:07
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CarForumPoster posted:As you noted I didn’t ask that question. someone already gave you the ABA-approved list on the last page. you yourself commented that "I saw that list in googling but theyre mostly very low tier schools". if anyone here has been through one they'd surely speak up. what exactly do you want here, someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat?
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Dec 15, 2023 02:09
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I haven’t heard of anyone doing law school remote. I don’t think there is anyone in this thread who did cause most of us have been around since prepandemic and I don’t think teaching law school that way was even considered. Probably a mix of norms and aba requirements. No clue if those got relaxed but I imagine there’s still a huge emphasis on in person because if there’s one thing lawyers love is a captive audience for their bullshit.
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Dec 15, 2023 02:10
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CarForumPoster posted:This is exactly what I'm looking for! Why not? I, very stupidly, took a lot of night time classes my second and third year and got to know a lot of people in them. I was working part time during the week because I again, very stupidly, thought that clerking for my cousin's tiny law firm would look great on my resume. Neither of my parents ever had a resume in their life and I followed their bad advice on this, falling into the "working hard is what people want to see!" Trap instead of solely focusing on GPA. Anyways, night class was miserable, and when people did attend, they were often half asleep or asleep. Loyola also has a reputation for gaming their statistics by letting in a lot of night/part time students who had lower academics but didn't hurt their score metrics. Unsurprisingly, they ended up doing really well on their 1st year exams when they only had half as many finals to study for, but then got crushed when going full time. But those people ended up being some of my best friends, great to party with. But at the end of things, we graduated into the 08 recession, only a handful of people got big law jobs, the rest of us got crushed. And the ones who went into public interest told horror stories about 07-08 being the final year public interest places were willing to hire outside the T14. A lot of this was due to the changes in student loan forgiveness in this era. Basically, LUC would be a waste of your time and a waste of the school's time. The fun parts of school - making friends, hanging out, etc - would be wasted on you. It'd just be a slog to end up with a degree that's just as worthless as Cooley or anywhere else - valuable only for passing the bar. If you insist on going to law school you should either go to a rigorous place and give it your all for 3 years, or go to the absolute easiest school possible to check the box for sitting for the bar. Just show up for finals with an outline you get online and don't even attend the rest of the time. trevorreznik fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 02:12
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pmchem posted:someone already gave you the ABA-approved list on the last page. you yourself commented that "I saw that list in googling but theyre mostly very low tier schools". if anyone here has been through one they'd surely speak up. what exactly do you want here, someone to pull a rabbit out of a hat? I mean Loyola seems not to bad, weekends only with plenty of full remote credits and there’s a goon ITT who went there but didn’t like it so it seems like the thread may well deliver. Edit: trevorreznik posted:I, very stupidly, took a lot of night time classes my second and third year. I was working part time during the week because I again, very stupidly, thought that clerking for my cousin's tiny law firm would look great on my resume. ty this is very helpful! The stupid part was how much harder doing night school was given the peer set and the burden of daytime work? CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 02:13
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Yes, even in my 20s I found it impossible to focus on negotiable instruments and IRS tax laws at 9pm. The fatigue was just too much. And this was before smartphones and streaming video as extra distraction. If you're going to do law school you should either treat it like a total joke that it is at low ranked schools or be completely dedicated at better ones. You probably won't get any social benefit from it at your age. I have a friend who did night class at .. Kent? I think in Chicago, graduated around 2018. She found night class so exhausting she ended up quitting her good job and going full time just to get school over with. trevorreznik fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 02:19
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trevorreznik posted:Yes, even in my 20s I found it impossible to focus on negotiable instruments and IRS tax laws at 9pm. The fatigue was just too much. And this was before smartphones and streaming video as extra distraction. This is exactly what I was looking for, well thread I’m reconsidering this whole law school thing why didn’t you all just tell me not to go Seriously tho prob should leave in the low tier if I just wanna graduate. That opens up a few nearby ones too. Genuinely ty
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Dec 15, 2023 02:28
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