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forkboy84 posted:If you changed the box this could be the toy for a random Sopranos heavy. I always thought of Vince as a Big Pussy
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Dec 8, 2023 21:55
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I don't think AJW used 'graduation' as a word in that way but I'm not 100% sure; all of the contemporary English press talks about retirement and that's what we have to go off of. The idea is more from old school Japanese entertainment where people were expected to marry at the certain age and couldn't carry on: that tradition lingers on in certain places but its more people perhaps not talking about their private lives rather than promotions having firm rules on these things and there are exceptions - the first prominent married Joshi wrestler was Akira Hokuto who married Kensuke Sasaki and they were famous big names. The only promotion that has the old rules as far as I'm aware is Sendai Girls but only for wrestlers in the first two years of their career: and considering they can recruit very young that might be just a way of assuring parents that their 17 year old kid isn't going to be doing weird poo poo. TJPW did a storyline around getting rid of them a few years ago although I'm not convinced if they ever actually had them rather than doing a story.On The Internet posted:Thanks for the explanations, all! Is it normal for Joshis to stay in the same company for their entire careers? Like if they moved around from place to place would they graduate each time? As others have said; depends on the wrestler and on the promotion. There's a divide between the more idol-focused promotions and the less: and also where wrestlers go. If you retire then you'll get a ceremony in most places unless you retire very early (even then you might get some form of lower key sendoff); the wrestlers that have left to go to America have also all generally gotten big sendoffs (although I think only TJPW have called it a graduation - Io leaving Stardom wasn't described as that for example). Gatoh Move are a micro indie and I think will celebrate people leaving to go bigger places more because of that. The other promotions aren't the same really: thinking of the recent people to jump to Stardom some of the TJPW people got a send off match (Natsupoi against Hikari Noa) but most of them had a tweet posted saying they were not renewing and worked out their dates and then left without much note; they weren't going to do some big graduation send off for people that would simply show up in Stardom. With MIRAI they announced on the 1st September that the show on the 4th would be her last TJPW show; nothing particularly notable. I'll put it this way: if Yuka Sakazaki was leaving TJPW to go to Stardom they'd have done nothing for her (she's big enough that you have to) but not anything close to what they have done for her going to AEW.
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Dec 8, 2023 22:42
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IceAgeComing posted:I don't think AJW used 'graduation' as a word in that way but I'm not 100% sure; all of the contemporary English press talks about retirement and that's what we have to go off of. So when did the use of graduation enter Joshi wrestling culture? AJW was Japanese women's wrestling for a very long time. Is it just that we have English translation that retains more Japanese cultural quirks now? Joshi wrestling has been influenced by idol culture since at least Beauty Pair. One side note is that the word graduation seems like it gets phased out when wresters are above a certain age range, Saki Akai retired and Manami Toyota did as well. Although, Toyota wasn't contracted to any particular promotion and Akai was mostly connected to what can be loosely defined as a men's promotion.
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Dec 9, 2023 00:42
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I mean as a term it is only used by TJPW and Gatoh Move (asked some Japanese speakers I know and it is a distinctly different word in Japanese to retirement but they didn't go into the past): Himeka retired this year at age 25 and it was called a retirement at all times by Stardom; Hazuki was 22 when she retired in 2019 (she came back in 2021; which means that age the age of 26 she's had a career where she walked out on them once and retired one other time) and it was the same. HIRO'e retired from WAVE in 2020 (first pandemic retirement; she was going into something medical that I have forgotten) which is the sort of thing that TJPW would have described as 'graduation' and WAVE only ever called it a retirement. I also looked at Ice Ribbon because that's got some links to Gatoh Move and Tsukushi's retirement last year was called a retirement even though she was very young. I believe the term itself is a more modern idol thing (I'm getting quite far out of things that I know that well); and the reason that TJPW or Gatoh Move use it is as much 'you're moving on but you're welcome to come back' sort of thing; which might explain why they explicitly don't use it for people that they suspect are off to Stardom while they did with Marika Kobashi who was off to university and who may well go back (although she's also worked a Stardom date as well; so can't rule anything out). That's very distinct from old AJW where people explicitly would not be coming back in the future: you retired at 25 (or perhaps slightly older as a heel; Dump was late 20s) and were expected to never wrestle again and marry and have kids; so it basically was a retirement. JWP was formed because Jackie Sato wanted to carry on wrestling and didn't like how her AJW run ended (business went down the toilet with her on top as a solo act after a few years; the Matsunaga Bros felt that the next generation would do better so they had her put Jaguar Yokota over and instantly retire and things didn't really change) although it didn't really become a bigger thing until Devil Masami joined JWP literal months after her AJW 'retirement'; and then AJW's business falling off in the late 80s/early 90s meant that they had to change things and they saw that JWP/LLPW had a bunch of ex-AJW wrestlers and FMW's women's division was basically people they'd rejected and so decided to drop the rules to keep people around. In a way the 'graduation' terminology is an indication of how things have changed in some ways from the 80s period.
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Dec 9, 2023 19:12
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Thank you that was really illuminating.
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Dec 10, 2023 02:09
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Huh, I thought graduation began with AKB48, but they're way later than all that. Today I learned.
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Dec 10, 2023 03:30
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Huh, I thought graduation began with AKB48, but they're way later than all that. Today I learned. I don’t know if it started specifically with AKB or was used earlier for men’s or women’s idol groups, but the contemporary usage definitely ramped up with that group from like 2008 through now. They definitely have had ‘graduation ceremony’ shows for members leaving to be solo artists and such.
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Dec 10, 2023 11:59
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Did Danielson have any matches in WWE that come anywhere near what he’s been able to do in AEW? Both in terms of general quality, and also the style of match he’s been able to work.
Answers Me fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 19:19
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Justin Roberts. actual answer: The strap match with Bray Wyatt was great.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:23
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Answers Me posted:Did Danielson have any matches in WWE that come anywhere near what he’s been able to do in AEW? Both in terms of general quality, and also the style of match he’s been able to work. Bryan/Cena at Summerslam 2013
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Dec 15, 2023 19:26
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no.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:29
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bryans work in aew compared to his wwe run is like night and day
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Dec 16, 2023 00:33
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edit: Wrong thread.
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Dec 16, 2023 01:38
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Answers Me posted:Did Danielson have any matches in WWE that come anywhere near what he’s been able to do in AEW? Both in terms of general quality, and also the style of match he’s been able to work. Well, Danielson can have a 4 and a half star match anywhere. A wrestler as good as he is facing solid opponents will find a way to make a match great. Unfortunately, in WWE that was almost always his ceiling. The special things that make a Danielson match a Danielson match just aren't encouraged in WWE. The style is what makes the difference. What this means in practice is that the very very best of Danielson's WWE work is about at the quality level of an AEW TV match against Eddie Kingston. The circumstances of WWE never really let him slip into the gear that gave us Danielson vs ZSJ or the iron man match against MJF.
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Dec 17, 2023 09:11
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That feeling when the greatest wrestler in the country goes to a new company and becomes even better. Brian Danielson taught me many things, most notably 'WWE will never be what I want it to be'.
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Dec 17, 2023 09:18
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Answers Me posted:Did Danielson have any matches in WWE that come anywhere near what he’s been able to do in AEW? Both in terms of general quality, and also the style of match he’s been able to work. There was a really good match with AJ Styles that he had on a pandemic-era Smackdown. Funnily enough, it's the same episode in which the ligma doctor appears to give Jeff Hardy a piss test, which just about sums up WWE in a nutshell.
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Dec 17, 2023 22:49
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A really good WWE match is just a pretty mediocre match anywhere else and the Styles/Danielson match was just that.
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Dec 17, 2023 22:55
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Tampa Bae posted:A really good WWE match is just a pretty mediocre match anywhere else and the Styles/Danielson match was just that. WWE gave me a hilariously mediocre Steen/Styles match and that may have been the exact moment I quit watching
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Dec 17, 2023 23:09
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Gambit from the X-Men posted:WWE gave me a hilariously mediocre Steen/Styles match and that may have been the exact moment I quit watching I tuned in for Styles vs Nakamura at WM because I remembered their dope WK match the year earlier, it was a mistake
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Dec 17, 2023 23:14
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SG Bamboo posted:I tuned in for Styles vs Nakamura at WM because I remembered their dope WK match the year earlier, it was a mistake lol
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Dec 18, 2023 01:33
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I bought Wrestlemania on PPV twice for a Danielson/Sheamus match and one year it didn't happen and the other year it was to get over an "18 Seconds" squash while he kissed AJ Lee and that's when I stopped buying WWE PPVs and decided I could spend $60 better on beer and wings at a bar
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Dec 18, 2023 01:39
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SG Bamboo posted:I tuned in for Styles vs Nakamura at WM because I remembered their dope WK match the year earlier, it was a mistake I was in the building for Styles-Nakamura at WK, the Mania match was probably where I also completely gave up on WWE.
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Dec 18, 2023 01:41
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harperdc posted:I was in the building for Styles-Nakamura at WK, the Mania match was probably where I also completely gave up on WWE. Same! Well, not the part about being in the building for WK, but the bit about their Dick-Punch match being the straw that broke the camel's back for me watching WWE.
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Dec 18, 2023 04:57
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On The Internet posted:Same! Well, not the part about being in the building for WK, but the bit about their Dick-Punch match being the straw that broke the camel's back for me watching WWE. was the dick punch fest before or after the kofi squash, i forget. but yeah those two things p much made me seinfeld theater gif
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Dec 18, 2023 05:12
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graph posted:was the dick punch fest before or after the kofi squash, i forget. but yeah those two things p much made me seinfeld theater gif
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Dec 18, 2023 05:46
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Turns out that when you get the best ingredients in the world and use them to make dog food, your ceiling for how good it will be is "very good dog food"
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Dec 18, 2023 11:46
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Answers Me posted:Did Danielson have any matches in WWE that come anywhere near what he’s been able to do in AEW? Both in terms of general quality, and also the style of match he’s been able to work. in terms of style? Absolutely not. Quality? Well, the Shield TLC loving ruled,
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Dec 18, 2023 14:50
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As far as Sports Entertainment goes, the '19 Elimination Chamber was great and DBry's heeling was a big part of it.harperdc posted:I was in the building for Styles-Nakamura at WK, the Mania match was probably where I also completely gave up on WWE. man that Mania blew compared to what it could have been. Only title change is in the (admittedly very good) opener, Charlotte/Asuka and Styles/Nakamura are both just "fine," JINDER wins the US title instead of super-over Rusev, also-super-over Braun wins the tag titles in a comedy bit, DBry's big comeback match is a tag match where Shane-o-Mac sells for 45 minutes, and we get the requisite finisher spam in Brock/Roman II and Brock fuckin retains for reasons I guess? Lazy, weird, spiteful booking all around. D.N. Nation fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 14:57
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Lamuella posted:Well, Danielson can have a 4 and a half star match anywhere. A wrestler as good as he is facing solid opponents will find a way to make a match great. Unfortunately, in WWE that was almost always his ceiling. The special things that make a Danielson match a Danielson match just aren't encouraged in WWE. The style is what makes the difference. I get what you mean, but there are a couple of matches he was involved in that absolutely should have been given the Observer 5-stars. Just a couple of cases of "well, Dave's just plain wrong."
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Dec 18, 2023 22:44
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Here's something I never quite understood that both AEW and WWE seem to require ther champions to do: lugging around the championship belt and being responsible for it. Like as bagge and luggage, and keeping it with them. It's an expensive item and forget about having too much beer at a steak house and leaving in your Uber or something like Jericho did, or instances where a WWE guy has left their championship somewhere... airlines screw up and lose luggage all the time. Even if it's just a replica title, and there is a special version of the belt to be used on TV... like, why require them to do this? Why not hold on to the replica not-as-good-for-tv title and only give or send it out with them if they know they're doing some kind of local media appearance or meet and greet or signing or something and then take it back when those are done. Like if it's some kind of "prove you're responsible" act I can maybe see why WWE still does it. But why would AEW need to stick with that too?
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Dec 18, 2023 23:00
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SirDippingSauce posted:Here's something I never quite understood that both AEW and WWE seem to require ther champions to do: lugging around the championship belt and being responsible for it. Like as bagge and luggage, and keeping it with them. It's an expensive item and forget about having too much beer at a steak house and leaving in your Uber or something like Jericho did, or instances where a WWE guy has left their championship somewhere... airlines screw up and lose luggage all the time. Even if it's just a replica title, and there is a special version of the belt to be used on TV... like, why require them to do this? Why not hold on to the replica not-as-good-for-tv title and only give or send it out with them if they know they're doing some kind of local media appearance or meet and greet or signing or something and then take it back when those are done. having it be juggled through all stages of travel and packing/unpacking at shows would also not be a flawless process, when it could still be misplaced, damaged, etc. add in the traditional chaos of branching road schedules in most big wrestling companies with more than one TV a week (and/or house shows), with plans randomly changing on a whim for any number of reasons, and it can easily make more sense to have the belt kept by the person who needs it to be there at every event they're at like the example of checking the belt in and out with a wrestler based off of local appearances just adds an extra logistical headache alone, with a process of travel and production that's already a juggling act as it is I know if I had to pick between traveling with this always needed (but cumbersome) item 24/7, or chasing it down every time I needed it, I'd just travel with the thing, and I suspect most anyone who's dealt with hectic travel would do the same to avoid that type of stress at that point, why not just do it the old school way and expect that the wrestler is gonna take that belt seriously enough to be responsible for it, along with any hypothetical benefit that possessing the belt does make it easier for them to live that gimmick as the champ and enhance their performance/investment in that role e: alternate solution is that Tony Khan should just hire a guy to do nothing but wear every single belt from one event to the next, Ultimo Dragon style The337th fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 23:25
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SirDippingSauce posted:Here's something I never quite understood that both AEW and WWE seem to require ther champions to do: lugging around the championship belt and being responsible for it. Like as bagge and luggage, and keeping it with them. It's an expensive item and forget about having too much beer at a steak house and leaving in your Uber or something like Jericho did, or instances where a WWE guy has left their championship somewhere... airlines screw up and lose luggage all the time. Even if it's just a replica title, and there is a special version of the belt to be used on TV... like, why require them to do this? Why not hold on to the replica not-as-good-for-tv title and only give or send it out with them if they know they're doing some kind of local media appearance or meet and greet or signing or something and then take it back when those are done. It looks cool if your champion is carrying his belt around.
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Dec 19, 2023 00:29
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Answers Me posted:Did Danielson have any matches in WWE that come anywhere near what he’s been able to do in AEW? Both in terms of general quality, and also the style of match he’s been able to work. I'll always have a soft spot for his main event match against Cena at Summerslam 2013.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:12
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I think somebody has mentioned before but there’s multiple belts, too, beyond the ones the champs get as keepsakes, I think there was a house show belt and a TV one in WWE, for instance, so would make sense for the champ to travel with the house belt - they need it for the shows, and it’s a backup in case the TV one gets packed or lost.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:57
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neoaxd posted:I'll always have a soft spot for his main event match against Cena at Summerslam 2013. It wasn't even the best match on that show.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:15
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Lid posted:It wasn't even the best match on that show. Probably not, I just like it a whole lot.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:31
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Maybe it wasn't the best match on the show (though looking at the card I'm not inclined to agree) but it definitely had that perfect storm of emotion, meaning, story, action, and a killer finish...which of course was immediately dashed but y'know As far as Bryan singles matches in WWE go it was basically as good as it got. I guess maybe Kofi's title win for a different reason. None of them will measure up to ROH or AEW Bryan but they're the closest to being really great at least.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:43
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Erin M. Fiasco posted:Maybe it wasn't the best match on the show (though looking at the card I'm not inclined to agree) but it definitely had that perfect storm of emotion, meaning, story, action, and a killer finish...which of course was immediately dashed but y'know I thought his singles match with Bray was excellent and did a better job selling Bray as a killer than any match he had after that.
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Dec 19, 2023 04:55
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Lid posted:It wasn't even the best match on that show. Unironically and with no shade wondering which match you put over it.
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Dec 19, 2023 06:52
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Procrastinator posted:Unironically and with no shade wondering which match you put over it. CM Punk v Brock Lesnar
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Dec 19, 2023 07:10
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