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the only way to know if Purdy is elite or not is for 49ers to jettison all their offensive talent so they should do that as soon as possible
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Dec 15, 2023 17:38
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Purdy is 2nd in Air Yards / Completion but he’s 11th in Intended Air Yards / Completion. The stats suggest he is generally taking shorter passes but on occasion takes advantage of when play design and talent provide huge air-yard down-the-field openings. At 10th out of 32, it doesn't suggest that unless you're predisposed to interpret it so. A more charitable person would say he's taking what the defense gives him until he sees a deeper open shot to take advantage of; something most great QBs do. Bad Throw % is a stat that "punishes" QBs who throw with anticipation and/or throw to lead their targets in order to give them more YAC, which I believe we can agree is the kind of QB Purdy is. Ornery and Hornery posted:Again that’s not saying Purdy is bad, but it’s further evidence that he’s not an MVP player making incredible plays. He’s just working the machine that Shanahan built. It's not evidence of anything. It's potentially suggestive of some things that you would seemingly like to be true, but only if looked at through a biased lens. Ornery and Hornery posted:Purdy’s receivers/tight ends are also hilariously better at catching than other teams. Purdy/SF leads the league in lowest drop rate at an unbelievable 2.0%. 2nd place is 3.5%. League median is around 4.7%. The gap between first place (Purdy) and second place is bigger than the gap between second and twenty-first. If you want to continue to hold the talent on his team against him, that's your prerogative.
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Dec 15, 2023 18:24
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thats kind of the crux of an MVP argument, yes
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Dec 15, 2023 18:28
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I mean by more charitable you mean Homer then sure you can extrapolate till he’s basically Tom Brady if you so chose
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Dec 15, 2023 18:28
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean by more charitable you mean Homer then sure you can extrapolate till he’s basically Tom Brady if you so chose I don't think anyone has insinuated that Brock is a cheater.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:24
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Ornery and Hornery posted:Purdy is 2nd in Air Yards / Completion but he’s 11th in Intended Air Yards / Completion. The stats suggest he is generally taking shorter passes but on occasion takes advantage of when play design and talent provide huge air-yard down-the-field openings. I'm not trying to argue that your last line is wrong, but I have questions about how to came to that conclusion. edit: Well, I will argue that he is more than "a fine" QB. I think he is top 5ish if you are looking at play this year (and not looking at contract/age/injuries).
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Dec 15, 2023 19:39
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Parallax posted:the only way to know if Purdy is elite or not is for 49ers to jettison all their offensive talent so they should do that as soon as possible It makes sense. This is good scientific process.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:39
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Honest question: Have you watched any of his film? You're talking a lot about his stats but looking at the film is equally important. You have brought up his receivers having a lot of YAC and not a lot of drops like that means its a bad thing for Purdy when if you look at the same offense with the same players, as mentioned above, there were more drops and less YAC. Therefore seeing how/where Purdy throws his passes by watching film, I think the low drop % and high YAC numbers show how good he is; he has AMAZING anticipation, excellent touch, and impeccable placement which means it is easier for his (good) WRs and TE to catch (low drop rate) then run after they catch (good placement so they can run after making the catch). I’m a fan of an NFC West team and I also think Shanahan is an incredible coach who I love to watch. So yes, I have seen many niners games this season. I have questions about how anyone who watched the niners this year could not think Purdy has about the best context possible for a qb. Shanahan is spectacular.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:42
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Ornery and Hornery posted:I have questions about how anyone who watched the niners this year could not think Purdy has about the best context possible for a qb. Shanahan is spectacular. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 19:43
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Also it is one thing to see 9ers games if you’re a Seahawks fan. That is not watching film. I’m talking about sitting down and watching some all-22 or at least something like the JT O’Sullivan breakdown videos.
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Dec 15, 2023 19:56
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There is no hope for people if they don't watch Purdy play and realize he is a Top 5 quarterback. Yes, his team is great, but he is a huge reason why. I swear it has to be because he was drafted so late or he isn't the ideal size / arm strength. Like they're fooling themselves "He can't be this good - there has to be other reasons why!" No, he's just the next Tom Brady (Not that he'll be one of the best QBs ever, way too early to say, but that he was a late round draft pick that's turned into an excellent quarterback). Kirios fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 20:10
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The 49ers would be more hurt by the loss of CMC, Deboo, or Kittle than by the loss of Purdy. Those guys create such a high floor that even the drop off from Purdy to Sam Darnold (which is substantial) would be less impactful. That said, a pro-Purdy MVP argument that I haven't seen expressed is his tiny wee baby cap hit. If we are going to have a semantics argument about the word "valuable", why not throw in the fact that the 49ers are currently severely under paying based on their QB's market value? Hell, it's a big part of why they can be so stacked elsewhere.
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Dec 15, 2023 20:14
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Purdy doesn't suck but he also could be replaced by about 10 guys in the league if they were dropped into the 49ers
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Dec 15, 2023 20:17
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Nodoze posted:Purdy doesn't suck but he also could be replaced by about 10 guys in the league if they were dropped into the 49ers edit: or at least list them AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Dec 15, 2023 |
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Dec 15, 2023 20:29
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I feel like people are overhyping Purdy hard which is silly. He’s fine he’s doing good in a good situation. As a fan of the team you should be content with that as that is very very hard to get
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Dec 15, 2023 20:49
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CharlestheHammer posted:I feel like people are overhyping Purdy hard which is silly. He’s fine he’s doing good in a good situation. As a fan of the team you should be content with that as that is very very hard to get I'm definitely hyped on Purdy cause he's legit great but I would also be very happy with him not winning MVP, keep that chip on his shoulder
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Dec 15, 2023 21:34
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Diva Cupcake posted:I think it was this one? In any case Kyle Shanahan deserves COY in every way and no one else is close. this guy is like the world's #1 Purdy Hater for some reason. for example has has Purdy ranked on par with Justin Fields. he seems to really value draft position in his rankings
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Dec 15, 2023 21:55
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^ I remember people yelling about him having Purdy ranked 32nd entering the season, I hadn't checked since then, he's since been upgraded to 19th, behind Kyler Murray, Geno Smith, Jordan Love, Tom Brady, and two draft prospects.Ornery and Hornery posted:Purdy is 2nd in Air Yards / Completion but he’s 11th in Intended Air Yards / Completion. The stats suggest he is generally taking shorter passes but on occasion takes advantage of when play design and talent provide huge air-yard down-the-field openings. Coldforge posted:At 10th out of 32, it doesn't suggest that unless you're predisposed to interpret it so. A more charitable person would say he's taking what the defense gives him until he sees a deeper open shot to take advantage of; something most great QBs do. CharlestheHammer posted:I mean by more charitable you mean Homer then sure you can extrapolate till he’s basically Tom Brady if you so chose I think the thing is that Intended Air Yards/PA does not have much intrinsic good/bad implication and is another thing where you pretty much bring what you already think to the table or you need to look at nine million other things to contextualize. Being middle of the pack on this list could mean you're all checkdowns and deepshots, all intermediate, a flat distribution, half intermediate/quarter checkdowns/quarter shots, etc, and whether those were the right calls really depends on the play. 1. Levis 2. Stroud 4. Hurts 6. Lamar 8. Allen 10. Purdy 12. Dak 16. Herbert 17. Tua 18. Zach Wilson 26. Mahomes 29. Goff My feeling on it is the supporting cast stuff is more a pro-Dak or Lamar argument than really a knock on Purdy. Lots of MVP QBs were throwing to good players but it is a plus when you're Lamar Jackson and have an entire top 5 offense on your back.
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Dec 15, 2023 22:25
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:this is my theory on why herbert is so overrated It’s essential to the eye test—Herbert is gorgeous. That said, I think purdy is a qt thus a good qb
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Dec 15, 2023 23:24
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i don't get the purdy looks thing, he looks like a qb to me. he's not like aidan o'connell who looks like my cousin when he was 11
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Dec 15, 2023 23:27
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Source your quotes. In zero order.. Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Dak, Stroud, Hurts, Lamar, Allen, Cousins, Lawrence, Stafford, Tua That is more than ten but I think all those guys can do what Purdy is doing right now, or better for some, if you dropped them on the 49ers. Again, that doesn't mean Purdy sucks but he's not like a top 5 QB in the NFL either. You could quibble about Stroud because of the body of work, but it's not like Purdys is huge either.
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Dec 15, 2023 23:34
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After watching the Niners-Eagles game I do not think Hurts could replace Purdy, he just does too much stupid poo poo under pressure and the Niners o-line isn't good enough to give him time to operate. It's a below-average o-line! Nobody mentions that in the discussion of all the incredible weapons and tools Purdy has of course. Also not sure Trevor could do it, he's got an awesome arm but he also seems to wilt a bit under pressure.
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Dec 15, 2023 23:41
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edit: quote is not edit
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Dec 15, 2023 23:45
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Nodoze posted:In zero order.. Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Dak, Stroud, Hurts, Lamar, Allen, Cousins, Lawrence, Stafford, Tua Vox Nihili posted:the Niners o-line isn't good enough to give him time to operate. It's a below-average o-line! Nobody mentions that in the discussion of all the incredible weapons and tools Purdy has of course. Vox Nihili posted:Also not sure Trevor could do it, he's got an awesome arm but he also seems to wilt a bit under pressure.
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Dec 15, 2023 23:47
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Trent is amazing but otherwise yeah this is an important point. Yeah, there's a reason most of the big Niners running plays are to the left. Trent opens up the run and he's awesome. The other guys...  
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Dec 15, 2023 23:53
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I kind of eluded to this before with my post about ranking MVP seasons overall but did Peyton not deserve the MVP award because he had an all universe offensive line and was throwing to Marvin Harrison Reggie Wayne Brandon Stokely with Edgerrin James in the backfield ? Did Tom not deserve his when he had Moss and he threw 50TDs? Does that Make Lamar Jackson's MVP season more impressive because he didn't have GOATs catching passes? Was Cam's MVP season better because he had no left tackle, his offensive coordinator was loving horrid and his primary receiver was Ted Ginn?
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Dec 15, 2023 23:56
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i can post fake number charts and graphs tooBlindSite posted:I kind of eluded to this before with my post about ranking MVP seasons overall but did Peyton not deserve the MVP award because he had an all universe offensive line and was throwing to yes, to all of these questions
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Dec 15, 2023 23:56
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It's weird how people don't get or don't care that different QBs have different strengths and skillsets, or that some of them fit different schemes better than others 
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Dec 16, 2023 00:14
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Alaois posted:i can post fake number charts and graphs too Let's see 'em then
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Dec 16, 2023 00:21
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Coldforge posted:It's weird how people don't get or don't care that different QBs have different strengths and skillsets, or that some of them fit different schemes better than others Can't judge a fish by how it climbs a tree.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:23
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First time seeing this thread and I only read the OP but my bold take is that Desmond Ridder Stinks
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Dec 16, 2023 01:18
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The Big Jesus posted:First time seeing this thread and I only read the OP but my bold take is that Desmond Ridder Stinks He probably shouldn’t be MVP either then.
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Dec 16, 2023 08:37
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The Puppy Bowl posted:The 49ers would be more hurt by the loss of CMC, Deboo, or Kittle than by the loss of Purdy. Those guys create such a high floor that even the drop off from Purdy to Sam Darnold (which is substantial) would be less impactful. Niners fell apart when Trent Williams was out. Trent Williams is the best player on that team.
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Dec 16, 2023 15:11
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MrLogan posted:Niners fell apart when Trent Williams was out. Trent Williams is the best player on that team. Trent Williams is powerful beyond measure, a modern day Goku
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Dec 17, 2023 03:02
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I think we're learning this season that the most important QB stat is games played and by that measure Purdy is elite top five with "all of them"
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Dec 17, 2023 15:06
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Nodoze posted:In zero order.. Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Dak, Stroud, Hurts, Lamar, Allen, Cousins, Lawrence, Stafford, Tua Thinking about this post right now
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Dec 18, 2023 03:19
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MrLogan posted:Niners fell apart when Trent Williams was out. Trent Williams is the best player on that team. Purdy was concussed for two of those games.
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Dec 18, 2023 03:50
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awwwwwwww dammit OBJ
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Dec 18, 2023 04:01
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I am Happy Bryce Young got given his big boy shoes and was allowed to run some hurry up and change plays at the line. His last drive he had no incompletions inclduing 3 completions for 19+ yards, was perfect on the drive and combined with Hubbard got us 87 yards down the field for the game winner. Wasn't the prettiest game but he was poised, efficient, decisive, accurate and more important effective on that drive and I'm happy he had a good one.
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Dec 18, 2023 04:58
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I have updated my tier list on how teams feel about their QBs. Only seven on the top row, mostly because I'm not sure what's going to happen with Tua and Dak's next contracts. I'm 90% sure that the Fins/Cowboys will pay through the nose, but until that happens I can't place them on the top row. Second row, Geno's play has fallen off some and short of a Seahawks playoff appearance and maybe run, I could see the team taking a flyer on someone like Bo Nix in a later round, assuming that Nix falls to like Day 3. I'm also moving Russ up here; Denver isn't what they planned on being but he's no longer actively hurting the team by being on the field. Carr and Kyler are on row three by virtue of not being hurt at the moment, otherwise they'd be with a lot of the QBs on row 4. A-A-Ron's big return is just so going to be dashed by the Jets' incompetence and being eliminated from playoff contention, what a shame. We'll see how Herbert does with whoever ends up with the Chargers gig but he's not going anywhere. Daniel Jones might be challenged a little bit by DeVito next season. Watson and Joey Jumpoff will be back next year. If Stroud wasn't a rook he'd be on the top row instead of row 5, and if Richardson wasn't hurt he'd be here as well. Levis is going to be the starter going into next season unless he completely shits the bed in these last few games. If the Bears end up picking first I don't see how they don't take Caleb Williams and deal Fields, if only to give a new coach/potential GM a fresh start, plus save money on the QB side unless Fields' agrees to a far below potential market value contract. Baker's been up and down and even a Geno-type contract might depend on Tampa winning the NFC South on the basis that someone has to. Love is signed through next season, but I could also see Green Bay taking someone late and giving them looks in training camp in case Love struggles next year. I still think Stafford's going to hang them up after the year, and whoever ends up taking over in DC is going to want their own QB, and lol if they end up taking Drake Maybe and replace one bad UNC QB with another. Pats are in line for a complete rebuild, Steelers as well though they won't fire Tomlin. Ridder is garbo and why Atlanta can't win a winnable division. Raiders are done with yet another QB and Vikings are destined to be starting someone new next year. lol panthers
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Dec 18, 2023 06:19
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