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gay picnic defence posted:I’m not enthusiastic about it. To be clear this is referring to immigration the economic policy, not immigrants the people. The economic argument isn't just to boost raw gdp, or at least it shouldn't. More people from all over the world means that we gain from their knowledge, experience and culture. We can come up with new ideas, new ways of doing things improve as a society. Who knows how many great scientists, artists and philosophers have been born who haven't had the access to the resources to prosper? We're a very wealthy and safe country, and we shouldn't hoard our good fortune for ourselves. And what's wrong with high density housing? As long as it's built well, and the supporting infrastructure is there it's a fantastic way to live. Poor quality dense housing is terrible, but so is poor quality medium and low density housing.
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Dec 16, 2023 02:05
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Captain Theron posted:The economic argument isn't just to boost raw gdp, or at least it shouldn't. More people from all over the world means that we gain from their knowledge, experience and culture. We can come up with new ideas, new ways of doing things improve as a society. Who knows how many great scientists, artists and philosophers have been born who haven't had the access to the resources to prosper? We're a very wealthy and safe country, and we shouldn't hoard our good fortune for ourselves. The economic argument is and always has been that it boosts GDP. All those other things you mention do nothing for those on the lower rungs of society yet those are the people who are going to take the biggest hit to their quality of life. Again, the people who tend to call for high immigration levels are generally not the people who bare the costs of those policies. In theory there’s nothing wrong with high density housing, in practice no one has been able to build examples on a large scale that people would willingly choose over a house with a backyard if given the option. How many well off people choose to live in apartments when there’s houses available?
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Dec 16, 2023 02:20
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gay picnic defence posted:The economic argument is and always has been that it boosts GDP. All those other things you mention do nothing for those on the lower rungs of society yet those are the people who are going to take the biggest hit to their quality of life. Again, the people who tend to call for high immigration levels are generally not the people who bare the costs of those policies. Sure, if you mismanage things they don't turn out well, but the same thing happens if you mismanage things and change nothing. That's not an argument for or against immigration, it's an argument to actually improve government. And I'd direct you towards most European cities for the idea that high quality, desirable and dense housing doesn't exist. It doesn't even have to be towering apartment complexes: Amsterdam has huge amounts of medium density good quality homes with fantastically walkable and cyclable neighbourhoods
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Dec 16, 2023 02:44
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Captain Theron posted:
And even in those idealised European settings where do you find the people who are able to afford to pick and choose where they live? In low density housing, because it offers a higher standard of living. This obsession with cramming more and more people into high density housing also restricts a bunch of otherwise affordable hobbies and pastimes to people wealthy enough to afford a property with a shed or a garage.
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Dec 16, 2023 03:05
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gay picnic defence posted:affordable hobbies and pastimes this is why nillennials can’t afford houses, what with their avocado roasts and warhams
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Dec 16, 2023 03:18
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spray painting the word christmas on a wall and shouting "are you triggered, does this trigger you?!"
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Dec 16, 2023 03:25
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gay picnic defence posted:And even in those idealised European settings where do you find the people who are able to afford to pick and choose where they live? In low density housing, because it offers a higher standard of living. OK dude, you have a personal grudge against high density housing. Lots of people don't, and some even prefer them. I do for one. The presence of some rich arsehole buying a country mansion isn't indicative of broader population trends. Not to mention it's unsustainable to keep expanding in low density suburban sprawl. Denser living is actually quite nice, you should try it some time. Being able to step out my door and find food from every corner of the globe is fantastic, not to mention ready access to museums, theatres, live music and libraries without having to get in a car.
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Dec 16, 2023 03:26
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Non Compos Mentis posted:spray painting the word christmas on a wall and shouting "are you triggered, does this trigger you?!" some people just want a white christmas
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Dec 16, 2023 03:34
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Captain Theron posted:Denser living is actually quite nice, you should try it some time. Being able to step out my door and find food from every corner of the globe is fantastic, not to mention ready access to museums, theatres, live music and libraries without having to get in a car. I had an ex who used to feel the same way. He lived rent-free in a massive apartment on Spring Street that his parents bought for him and didn't need to work because his parents gave him unlimited access to their bank account
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Dec 16, 2023 03:58
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having a yard sucks poo poo, 'let me just spend time and money cleaning cutting grass and throwing out my neighbours ugly rear end palm leaves' - statements made by the utterly deranged
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Dec 16, 2023 05:06
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HazCat posted:I had an ex who used to feel the same way. so the wealthy don't all prefer low-density housing?
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Dec 16, 2023 05:34
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Certainly not if all the luxury appartments going up in inner south Brisbane are anything to go by. Many of them start at over a million. People hate living in crappy, cheaply made apartments. If you get an apartment that has some thought put into it, decent sound proofing, reasonably sized, as part of a broader urban village approach with nice places to eat and shop within walking distance and access to public transport, people actually quite like it. I know where I’d rather live if I was ever in a financial position to not live with my parents.
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Dec 16, 2023 05:38
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lih posted:so the wealthy don't all prefer low-density housing? He lives in a house now, so I think his actual preference at the time was not having to pay rent or have a job.
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Dec 16, 2023 05:46
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:having a yard sucks poo poo, 'let me just spend time and money cleaning cutting grass and throwing out my neighbours ugly rear end palm leaves' - statements made by the utterly deranged Yeah, gently caress lawns. A waste of time, effort and water.
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Dec 16, 2023 07:34
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As most media outlets start to do the end of year wrap ups I have an Auspol project. List the people who you can't believe aren't already dead. Maybe quote my list and add to it (IDK or care) (except for the fact that these arseholes aren't dead yet). Why the gently caress aren't you dead so I can dance on your grave? John Howard. Rev. Fred Nile. Rupert Murdoch. Alan Jones. John Laws.
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Dec 16, 2023 07:35
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Cartoon posted:List the people who you can't believe aren't already dead. me. 3 years into covid and i am still here, ha ha ha gently caress you virus
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Dec 16, 2023 10:19
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4 years. we're technically in year 5.
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Dec 16, 2023 11:46
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Mola Yam posted:4 years. we're technically in year 5. gently caress
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Dec 16, 2023 11:47
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i miss having a backyard of my own because i had chickens and they were great but everything else about yard ownership sucks
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Dec 16, 2023 13:06
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GoldStandardConure posted:gently caress Change the date system to years AC imo. I’ve been lucky, still never had it despite working checkouts in a supermarket. It did murder my favourite restaurant though.
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Dec 16, 2023 13:16
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after cock?
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Dec 16, 2023 13:17
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Captain Theron posted:OK dude, you have a personal grudge against high density housing. Lots of people don't, and some even prefer them. I do for one. The presence of some rich arsehole buying a country mansion isn't indicative of broader population trends. Not to mention it's unsustainable to keep expanding in low density suburban sprawl. I have tried it and it was poo poo. Living packed in like a tin of sardines, hearing other people's air con running all night, not having a shed to tinker in, having to drive halfway across the city to my parents place whenever I wanted to take my kayak out. I've been fortunate enough to be able to move into a rural area where there's more space and the house I'm renting has a bigass back yard with a fire pit, a decent garage that fits the gym and the boat I'm building. If I had kids there'd be plenty of space for them to play backyard cricket or whatever. That stuff isn't going to be relevant for everyone but the original point was that driving the population higher and higher, and relying on more and more high density housing in order to cram everyone in limits options for people and the people going to bear the brunt are the less well off.
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Dec 17, 2023 06:40
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I live in an apartment and I don't have any of these issues because it's not a dogshit 2020 build.
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Dec 17, 2023 08:25
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JBP posted:I live in an apartment and I don't have any of these issues because it's not a dogshit 2020 build. I lived in a rock solid '50s apartment for years and loved it. Unfortunately about 90% of existing stock in this country falls under the category of "dogshit" and that doesn't seem likely to change.
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Dec 17, 2023 10:08
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gay picnic defence posted:I have tried it and it was poo poo. Living packed in like a tin of sardines, hearing other people's air con running all night, not having a shed to tinker in, having to drive halfway across the city to my parents place whenever I wanted to take my kayak out. I've been fortunate enough to be able to move into a rural area where there's more space and the house I'm renting has a bigass back yard with a fire pit, a decent garage that fits the gym and the boat I'm building. If I had kids there'd be plenty of space for them to play backyard cricket or whatever. It's not only a lack of high-density housing, it's a lack of high-density housing suitable for families and multigenerational households. Here in Perth there's a fair bit of infill where it's mostly 1 or 2-bed apartments, so it just fills up with old people and young professionals.
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Dec 17, 2023 11:08
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freebooter posted:I lived in a rock solid '50s apartment for years and loved it. Unfortunately about 90% of existing stock in this country falls under the category of "dogshit" and that doesn't seem likely to change. I’m in a place built in 1990, and I feel it’s the last properly constructed apartment building in the eastern suburbs. Double brick walls, full cement between floors… we’re on the ground floor and replaced the windows/balcony doors with double glazing and it’s honestly like living in a house. Helps that our other ground floor neighbours never use the backyard
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Dec 17, 2023 11:30
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ShoeFly posted:I’m in a place built in 1990, and I feel it’s the last properly constructed apartment building in the eastern suburbs. Double brick walls, full cement between floors… we’re on the ground floor and replaced the windows/balcony doors with double glazing and it’s honestly like living in a house. I'm in a warehouse conversion from 2003 and all the apartments are 2+ beds with living and dining plus space for an office desk if you like. My balcony is twice as big as a regular townhouse/semi detached courtyard. The building sits on the space of maybe 5 single suburban lots I guess and it has 50 units. Good bang for buck space-wise and it's not high rise. There are high rises near me that have been built recently and I'd die before I lived in one.
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Dec 17, 2023 11:47
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We desperately need aggregation of individual lots to enable well built multi-dwelling development in established suburbs, so the big brain Victorian government have of course decided to make granny flats easier to build and further entrench 1 or2 dwellings on a lot
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Dec 18, 2023 02:56
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Unless they've changed it so that you can no longer only keep one on your property if you have a dependent residing in it, I don't see how that's a bad thing? Multigeneration households are cool and good and far better for the physical, emotional and mental wellbeing of the elderly.
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Dec 18, 2023 03:11
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Unless they've changed it so that you can no longer only keep one on your property if you have a dependent residing in it, I don't see how that's a bad thing? Multigeneration households are cool and good and far better for the physical, emotional and mental wellbeing of the elderly. No, that’s the change. It’s open slather second dwelling on a lot. Don’t need a planning permit if the lot is over 300sqm and the secondary dwelling is less than 60sqm (still need a building permit). Also it no longer has to be a removable dwelling like a DPU had to be. Multigenerational living is a great option, however this will significantly impact the ability to rollout what we need even more: multi-lot development in established areas. There’s only so much densification you can do working lot by lot while retaining any sort of public realm, permeable space, open space, and tree canopy.
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Dec 18, 2023 03:43
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christmess tbh
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Dec 18, 2023 04:34
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GoldStandardConure posted:me.
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Dec 18, 2023 04:35
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isnt the victorian government now overriding councils heritage listings because they were using it to stop any building plans they didnt like? like apartments near train stations
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Dec 18, 2023 04:46
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Non Compos Mentis posted:isnt the victorian government now overriding councils heritage listings because they were using it to stop any building plans they didnt like? like apartments near train stations That’s NSW atm
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Dec 18, 2023 06:25
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i knew it was one of the governments its a good move
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Dec 18, 2023 06:35
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gay picnic defence posted:That stuff isn't going to be relevant for everyone but the original point was that driving the population higher and higher, and relying on more and more high density housing in order to cram everyone in limits options for people and the people going to bear the brunt are the less well off.
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Dec 18, 2023 06:54
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Non Compos Mentis posted:isnt the victorian government now overriding councils heritage listings because they were using it to stop any building plans they didnt like? like apartments near train stations Judging by the complete lack of news reports about rich people complaining about anyone overriding heritage listings, it looks like the VIC planning minister is not using the powers they fought for. Like there's been nothing happening apart from using the powers to pull down poor people's towers to sell them to rich people and add 10% more.
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Dec 18, 2023 07:28
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How much of a pathetic dumbass do you have to be to plot the murder of a zoo coworker and just stab her in the cafe https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12875599/national-zoo-woman-body-canberra.html "One zoo visitor told Daily Mail Australia: 'Staff ran everything like nothing had happened as obviously to keep visitors unaware and safe. 'They [the cops] pulled us over when we were leaving and asked if we witnessed anything. 'I told them I had no idea what I was meant to witness and they said "don't worry, if you had witnessed the incident you would know.'"
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Dec 18, 2023 08:05
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Councils should be allowed to list 100 buildings for local protection and that’s it (that’s way more generous than I would be if I had the choice, anything actually important goes on the state or national heritage lists anyway and doesn’t need local protection)
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Dec 18, 2023 08:07
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Nah I would prefer to keep most of the 19th architectural heritage of inner-city Melbourne, it's aesthetically pleasing and half the reason I still live here instead of moving back to the affordable but off-puttingly Ballardian environs of Perth where everything was built 5 minutes ago and looks like Phoenix Arizona.
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Dec 18, 2023 08:35
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