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holy poo poo lmao
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Dec 18, 2023 23:52
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BitcoinRockefeller posted:The best magical super tech is cutting to a new shot so the ship can teleport to a different altitude. Is it a mile up? In low earth orbit? Mountain top height? How about all those and everywhere in between as well. I mean, the super cool special forces dudes land and deploy a bobcat front loader with arms and missiles at one point so...
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Dec 19, 2023 00:27
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Ardennes posted:Napoleon wasn't wandering in with a company to clear out some Belgians. If you want to be anti-war, you have to sap every drop of glory from what you are doing and part of that is believing you are truly invincible. These are good posts. Countering basic assumptions of American invincibility is completely out of the question and why you basically can't make a big budget antiwar movie. Inevitably you have to make your action scenes bad rear end and it doesn't matter if you say in the narrative 'actually what they are doing is wrong' when them doing it needs to be slick and cool. Which is why I also think basically all war movies are bad to some degree. The better ones just have good or interesting parts but as a whole they typically fall apart. Some of the most critically lauded (Thin Red Line, 1917, Hurt Locker, Empire of the Sun, etc) are usually the ones I dislike the most. FMJ is a war movie I particularly dislike, because a Vietnam movie shot in England is already insane, but all the changes Kubrick made to the book significantly reduced the antiwar qualities of the narrative and made it overtly simplistic. It also meant we'll probably have to be subjected to R Lee Emery impressions until the end of time.
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Dec 19, 2023 00:49
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I don't think WW3 is right around the corner, but earth shattering (for Americans) change may be. While the US is far from undefeated in warfare since ww2 by any definition, the US has a near perfect record in establishing military bases, outposts, missile systems, and airfields in hundreds of countries across the globe. Right now there's budget requests and generals giving speeches about establishing permanent military solutions in / near the South China sea. I think its very possible this effort occurs, results in a limited war, and America is going to be shocked when it doesn't work, and the population is going to be even more surprised when the US doesn't escalate into some hellscape WW3, but is forced to accept the L.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:07
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Why would the war be limited?
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Dec 19, 2023 01:09
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Frosted Flake posted:I was reading a book about war films, and the short answer is that films through the 1960's were made by people who had been there for an audience that had been there. Now that we're two generations removed, films are not representations of history but representations of cultural memory. So, in the 1950's there were a bunch of, what are now very boring and dry movies, about individual battles, because the writers, directors and often actors, had been there, or at least in the same war. In the 60's, there's a mix. But now?  this tracks.Now that you mention it, Rob Zacny in a review of COD WW2 said something similar. We’re so far removed from the experience of the war that it just becomes an aesthetic. And then you have characters acting like the military is a career and not something they’re doing temporarily because they have to and want to end ASAP, as in the game. https://www.vice.com/en/article/pa37bn/watching-history-fade-away-in-call-of-duty-wwii BillsPhoenix posted:I don't think WW3 is right around the corner, but earth shattering (for Americans) change may be. Frosted Flake posted:Why would the war be limited? Yeah it would be kinda hilarious to get a no-poo poo WW3, crash out in 6 months of combat, and then sue for peace and shrug. No cataclysm, no apocalypse, no occuption, just another empire in decline. As for limited. China for example could probably just win by having closer supply lines and the morale boost of fighting in and near your homeland, doesn't have use nukes and trigger MAD. The US will probably want to use WMD if/when they start losing, but MAD may just result in them taking the L and walking away. Who knows. skooma512 has issued a correction as of 01:24 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 01:20
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Frosted Flake posted:Why would the war be limited? No American is going to want to fight unless there is a draft. It's too much hard work, you don't get any treats/Xbox/internet, and the pay sucks. I am being a bit flippant, but Bush did have to resort to Stop-Loss just a few years after the start of the GWOT. If you couldn't get Americans, including some of the most racist chuds, to enlist just a few years after 9/11, ain't nobody going to want to sign up for the meat grinder to protect TSMC's profits.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:30
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Ukraine war is limited. Proof of concept, not actually related. Full scale war would jeopardize Taiwan chips short term. Israel has proven fortress Taiwan has limits. Americans will start making GBS threads themselves over the trade loss of stuff. Afghanistan/Iraq/Ukraine etc hasn't jeopardized citizens treats. War with China immediately does. US/NATO ammo supplies are not enough for full scale war with China and Russia maybe. Taking a loss can be used for political opportunism in the US. 9/11 saw the patriotic act, kicking off a proper cold war with China is ripe with opportunities. US will be motivated to take a small loss and try to prevent a complete collapse by losing a large war. And something you/others have brought up - post neoliberal societies (think that was the term) aren't willing to die for their countries at the same level of other cultures, though I think that limits draft potentials more than anything for the US, short term the manpower is there. - pulicenelli above me phrased this better.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:30
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Much like driving NATO to Russia's border, literally containing China is not up to us or rather US to limit - the other side gets a say too.skooma512 posted:Now that you mention it, Rob Zacny in a review of COD WW2 said something similar. We’re so far removed from the experience of the war that it just becomes an aesthetic. And then you have characters acting like the military is a career and not something they’re doing temporarily because they have to and want to end ASAP, as in the game. Excellent review, and you have it exactly.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:32
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Frosted Flake posted:Much like driving NATO to Russia's border, literally containing China is not up to us or rather US to limit - the other side gets a say too. Yes, and historically there's been minimal willingness to go to war with US over installing forward permanent military installations. I think Chinas gearing up to do more than draw a line in the sand over the South China Sea.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:37
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What thread gave you the red text?
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Dec 19, 2023 01:38
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cock hero flux posted:The US navy tried to do it and the resulting system was extremely expensive and didn't work very well. Because torpedoes are fast the response system needs to be automated, because by the time a human had assessed the threat it would already be too late. Because torpedoes are small and underwater, detecting them requires very sensitive equipment, which is prone to false positives from other random poo poo in the ocean. The combination of these factors meant that the system was constantly reacting to things other than incoming torpedoes to the point where they had to scrap it entirely because it kept firing at random ocean junk and its own escort ships. They should have used a very expensive pelican breeding program and had them scoop up torpedoes for food.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:43
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BillsPhoenix posted:While the US is far from undefeated in warfare since ww2 by any definition, the US has a near perfect record in establishing military bases, outposts, missile systems, and airfields in hundreds of countries across the globe. This feels kinda like a rich kid who loses money in the stock market every year but keeps getting money from their dad so they claim they are a hot shot trader. Dollar hegemony means the US can dump money on a problem like getting a base built somewhere, but it's harder to determine how much military power it has gained from it. It's similar how the CIA can blow billions on causing mayhem somewhere, but it doesn't mean it was able to achieve any kind of long-term strategic win just because it managed to get a bunch of locals killed. American economic and cultural dominance was immense in the post ww2 20th century, but its military record was very poor. I wonder if America blowing its load on the economic war vs Russia will end up being more crucial to American decline than losing any number of frontier wars. It seems like it has moved up the timetable on economic and political multipolarity outside of Europe. If America is this bad at military affairs with unlimited money imagine without petrodollar/reserve currency strength.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:46
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FuzzySlippers posted:This feels kinda like a rich kid who loses money in the stock market every year but keeps getting money from their dad so they claim they are a hot shot trader. Dollar hegemony means the US can dump money on a problem like getting a base built somewhere, but it's harder to determine how much military power it has gained from it. It's similar how the CIA can blow billions on causing mayhem somewhere, but it doesn't mean it was able to achieve any kind of long-term strategic win just because it managed to get a bunch of locals killed. In this example much like the rich kid everything is funded by debt. Enormous amounts of never to be repaid debt.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:48
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Ukraine debate. It's an interesting thread with lots of merit and debate, but sometimes it gets weird. Ukraine thread here was much more open to the idea that Russia and moreover Putin has bad motives, Ukraine isn't a monolith culturally and some people want to join Russia, some like Westernized Ukraine, the religious groups and more. Debate thread... is warming to the idea the US cares more about its own interests than Ukrainian freedom, so I'll take that as encouraging. Israel has really disillusioned a lot of people I know. Which goes back to limited war - the disillusionment is creating war blowback, it's gonna be real hard to motivate Americans to die for the South China Sea. Ironic that our own maps label it as literally China with that name lol.
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Dec 19, 2023 01:50
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BillsPhoenix posted:Ukraine debate. It's an interesting thread with lots of merit and debate, but sometimes it gets weird. To paraphrase Felix Biederman, the trap here is thinking that they'll remember any of this next time America is definitely defending freedom and acting as a global force for good. Those posters, specifically, did the same thing midway through the Iraq War. The difference between C-SPAM and the other forums is that because there's an underlying belief system at work here, people didn't need to be surprise of the experience of how it turned out to learn those lessons, and that consistency carries forward into, for example, the Taiwan straits.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:03
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Frosted Flake posted:To paraphrase Felix Biederman, the trap here is thinking that they'll remember any of this next time America is definitely defending freedom and acting as a global force for good. Those posters, specifically, did the same thing midway through the Iraq War. To our cynical eyes we must consider such people actually blessed. After all they get to continually experience the world anew with a sense of awe and wonder.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:10
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The idea of China ever being 'contained' because the US makes some vague alliances with a bunch of random places in Asia while the US navy is literally falling apart doesn't make a lot of sense. Or without the assistance of Russia. Especially after giving up on TPP 2.0 I think China containment is basically only for domestic political consumption. It's just a question of when our non-Japanese allies realize they need to make peace with China.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:24
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FuzzySlippers posted:The idea of China ever being 'contained' because the US makes some vague alliances with a bunch of random places in Asia while the US navy is literally falling apart doesn't make a lot of sense. Or without the assistance of Russia. Especially after giving up on TPP 2.0 I think China containment is basically only for domestic political consumption. It's just a question of when our non-Japanese allies realize they need to make peace with China. China's literally sailing their giant coast guard cutters up to other people's fishing boats in contested waters and blasting them with high pressure water cannons, that doesnt really feel very contained lol Like that happened this week
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Dec 19, 2023 02:29
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The Oldest Man posted:China's literally sailing their giant coast guard cutters up to other people's fishing boats in contested waters and blasting them with high pressure water cannons, that doesnt really feel very contained lol Water cannons are the ultimate weapon against the USN ships that dissolve in water.
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Dec 19, 2023 02:53
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ughhhh posted:The movie The Creator had a US military land carrier. Which didn't make any sense as to how it ended up in south east Asia when they were at war with everyone in Asia. The US also made a trillion dollar space station warship in orbit. A US that has had functional AI since the 50s is probably in better economic shape than real life. And they are still using AI, as suicide bombers. Think it's a safe bet they have robot slaves keeping things running in secret.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:01
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The destroyer tender lostech came back up in the Palestine thread I wonder if it's a casualty of being something boring to fund. I've heard how the air force and army tends to fund sexy projects with cool CGI promo videos like expensive jets or fancy weapon systems, but boring logistical stuff makes for a tougher pitch. If the navy has a similar problem then I can see how resupply ships (for a class of ships that already aren't as sexy as carriers) wouldn't get any funding. edit: Frosted Flake posted:We'd get something like Guy Richie's Robin Hood, where it's so contemporary that the setting is meaningless I got around to watching this clip and holy gently caress. I often complain that screenwriters on historical movies rarely have the imagination to try to imagine how people in other eras and places might possibly think differently than them (all of space and time can be poured into the mold of contemporary American politics), but this is on another level FuzzySlippers has issued a correction as of 03:35 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 03:29
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ughhhh posted:The movie The Creator had a US military land carrier. Which didn't make any sense as to how it ended up in south east Asia when they were at war with everyone in Asia. The US also made a trillion dollar space station warship in orbit. Notably, the "New Asia" nation explicitly cut out the PRC and India and any mention thereof. Probably part credulity of how could the US be at war with much of Southeast Asia and China, and probably in even larger part avoiding potential marketing issues in China. Movie tone was all over the place in a bad way. mlmp08 has issued a correction as of 03:36 on Dec 19, 2023 |
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Dec 19, 2023 03:34
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FuzzySlippers posted:The idea of China ever being 'contained' because the US makes some vague alliances with a bunch of random places in Asia while the US navy is literally falling apart doesn't make a lot of sense. Or without the assistance of Russia. Especially after giving up on TPP 2.0 I think China containment is basically only for domestic political consumption. It's just a question of when our non-Japanese allies realize they need to make peace with China. I'm failing at getting the first, most important point across badly. The US is going to try and establish permanent military near/ in the south China Sea. This is am attempt to prevent China from taking mear total control of these waters, the US already clearly doesn't control it, nor do they have China contained. This I think kicks off a limited war. That's the important change in this scenario vs recent past history. Not anything about containment.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:37
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/politics/military-food-insecurity/index.htmlquote:A quarter of US service members have been food insecure, new report finds holy poo poo the troops and their families can't afford food no wonder why recruitment has plummeted along with the bases full of mold and sewage.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:56
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Just imagine if China said "We must contain America in the Gulf of Mexico" and convinced Mexico and the Bahamas to let them build permanent military outposts and naval yards. I guess it's not that hard to imagine. Cuban Missile Crisis 2.
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Dec 19, 2023 03:57
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BillsPhoenix posted:I'm failing at getting the first, most important point across badly. I think you are overestimating contemporary American ability. America can say they want to build bases there and maybe sign some treaties with an eye towards doing so, but that's a far distance from actually building and operating them and then using them to threaten China. This is not the America that finally succeeded at technowar in Kuwait, invaded Iraq, or even orchestrated the destruction of Libya. The empire is weaker and more schizophrenic than ever. Just having any consistency in policy is extremely difficult much less combining policy with action. Far from the US being unable to defend Taiwan I'm not sure they can even mount a credible defense of it. I presume this in part explains the jittery nature of US diplomacy around Taiwan where it wants to be muscular but only to a point. It's also possible no one is seriously considering war with China and the Pivot To Asia is just because the blob got bored with trying to war game a solution to imperial projects that are unwinnable for political reasons. While wargaming with other major powers always ends with "and then nukes come out never mind game over" you can still have some fun with Clancy-ish Fulda Gap scenarios before that point.
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Dec 19, 2023 04:14
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Danann posted:https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/politics/military-food-insecurity/index.html welfare queens but with the military
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Dec 19, 2023 04:26
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FuzzySlippers posted:I think you are overestimating contemporary American ability. America can say they want to build bases there and maybe sign some treaties with an eye towards doing so, but that's a far distance from actually building and operating them and then using them to threaten China. This is not the America that finally succeeded at technowar in Kuwait, invaded Iraq, or even orchestrated the destruction of Libya. The empire is weaker and more schizophrenic than ever. Just having any consistency in policy is extremely difficult much less combining policy with action. Unable to pick a fight with China the USA will look around and decide that Mexico looks a bit easier.
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Dec 19, 2023 04:27
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DancingShade posted:Unable to pick a fight with China the USA will look around and decide that
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Dec 19, 2023 04:37
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DancingShade posted:Unable to pick a fight with China the USA will look around and decide that the USA looks a bit easier.
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Dec 19, 2023 04:38
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The Oldest Man posted:holy poo poo lmao I saw a trailer of that in theaters and assumed it was some urban fantasy reimagining since it had dudes in black bloc hurling molotovs
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Dec 19, 2023 04:40
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I don't think WW3 is likely to erupt from the Taiwan conflict, which is 95% a sino-us conflict a 5% a cross-strait conflict. The Taiwanese won't play a decisive role in this conflict they are just pawns. How much they want to be pawns of the US is up to DPP and the next president Lai. But I think this upcoming conflict is more likely to stay at the scale of a client war not escalating to WW3. China has heavy home field advantage in the shallow water near her land based airports, while the US has advantage on the other side of Malacca strait, namely the Indian Ocean and beyond. I don't think either side is stupid enough to sail the main force to the home turf of the opponent. So the hot war likely will switch to full fledged financial war and economic sanctions very soon. The US want financial war because they still think the US dollar and Swift are their greatest weapons. OTOH China has prepared this day with a lot of BRI projects to build up alternative trade routes and alternative shippings. So I think China is willing to go on long term counter sanctions and counter financial wars. It's going to bring a lot of pain to China but OTOH China is capable of bringing alot of pain to the US economy too. It's not going to be like WW2.
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Dec 19, 2023 05:06
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Danann posted:https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/politics/military-food-insecurity/index.html a quarter of the imperial armed forces have dealt with hunger and that comes from RAND holy loving lmao poo poo
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Dec 19, 2023 05:10
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dead gay comedy forums posted:a quarter of the imperial armed forces have dealt with hunger and that comes from RAND I admit to not keeping my eye on that aspect myself. That's quite dire.
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Dec 19, 2023 05:17
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dead gay comedy forums posted:a quarter of the imperial armed forces have dealt with hunger and that comes from RAND Bonus Army 2: This Time, It's MacArthursonal
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Dec 19, 2023 05:17
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so that's the foundation for a military coup at the next serious crisis taking all bets, taking all bets - will it be a war the US loses so hard it shakes the empire, famine from biosphere collapse, economic collapse from unchecked inflation, the unchecked pandemic pushing the workforce below the minimum needed to keep a critical mass of people in food, or all of the above?
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Dec 19, 2023 05:27
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if anything this is a monumental testament of the ideological force of the American state in the minds of its troops having those numbers in periods of great strife would be... expected? But when in a situation of peace and having the biggest pile of money around? It's incredible that there was no protest at all. As a general pool, one mfer in four of that might have to deal with AnsarAllah; rent got him good, had groceries on the credit card, likely is in debt. Is this guy really willing to eat a Yemeni rocket to his face? If so woah
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Dec 19, 2023 05:44
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Complications posted:so that's the foundation for a military coup at the next serious crisis Nothing dramatic. Just banks close one after another. Food becomes steadily more expensive or unavailable at all. Things start to break down but not repaired. Then one day the power just goes out. No Michael Bay movie scenes. It's only a geographical problem.
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Dec 19, 2023 05:52
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dead gay comedy forums posted:a quarter of the imperial armed forces have dealt with hunger and that comes from RAND lol
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Dec 19, 2023 06:25
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