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Jerusalem posted:
A TARDIS wanted to see the universe, so she stole a Time Lord and ran away.
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Dec 20, 2023 15:49
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Not only is there a dystopian future, but there's a dystopian future that adapted The Weakest Link as a death match battle royale
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Dec 20, 2023 15:56
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Harlock posted:Not only is there a dystopian future, but there's a dystopian future that adapted The Weakest Link as a death match battle royale Par for the course for The Weakest Link, really.
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Dec 20, 2023 16:53
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Par for the course for The Weakest Link, really. The only thing RTD got wrong is that Romesh Ranganathan wasn't presenting it in the dystopian future, but that might of been a dystopia too far even for Doctor Who.
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Dec 20, 2023 16:55
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Watching The Pandorica Opens and was inspired to effortpost a little. I think the bit where the Doctor points out that Amy's life makes no sense is genuinely clever; it takes stuff like Amy living in that nice house which is way too big for her which previously we might have simply accepted as being just the usual sort of narrative shorthand that stories often have to resort to and rewards the viewer for having noticed how incongruous it is. On the other hand, it's also an instance of the show overtly inviting a means of watching Doctor Who which it perhaps shouldn't be encouraging in its audience. If you deliver a narrative payoff which rewards viewers for nitpicking - for actively being a better and more enjoyable bit of television if you were enough of a nitpicker earlier on to say "Hang on, how the gently caress can Amy afford this house and where are her parents in all this?" - then you're effectively saying that nitpicking and keeping an eye out for continuity issues is not just an acceptable way to watch the show, but the expected way to watch it, because any apparent error can in fact be an important plot point you are meant to be picking up on and theorising about. In other words, Moffat's mouth is writing a cheque that the Doctor Who accounts can never, never cash. The idea of a version of Doctor Who where there aren't going to be bits you can nitpick is a forlorn hope at best, and telling the audience they should be paying attention to all that now invites an approach to watching the show which is highly detrimental to actually enjoying the show. The vast majority of nitpicks you encounter will not be key clues which the show will reward you for paying attention to, they're just goofs which you should just get over and move on from - but if they might be critical keys to season arc mysteries, you can't move on from them, because you've just been told that you should keep track of them because there'll be a payoff. By drawing your attention to them, Moffat is doing exactly what he shouldn't be doing as a storyteller. The whole point of the art is to use narrative sleight of hand to direct the audience's attention to the bits which can bear that attention, and away from the bits which will disintegrate if the audience stares hard enough. Sure, it resolves one particular continuity mystery, but in doing so it turns every other contradiction the show incorporates from that point forward into a big, confusing red herring.
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Dec 20, 2023 17:19
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Warthur posted:Watching The Pandorica Opens and was inspired to effortpost a little. That’s a really interesting take, thanks. It became even more textual in The Big Bang with the flashback to the angels episode where Eleven talks to Amy without his jacket on. I remember a lot of forums speculation before the reveal as to whether that was a “clue” or deliberate thing, or just a wardrobe continuity error. (Also helped by the fact the original scene *really* looks like they’re trying to film around the fact Smith doesn’t have his jacket for whatever reason - maybe a late reshoot where the wardrobe had already gone to another location). I can’t think of any other occasions the show did that kind of thing apart from the references to Bad Wolf in the first season.
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Dec 20, 2023 17:36
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It's so weird the Doctor had this granddaughter who started off his adventures but we only get the most oblique references to any of Doctor's family.
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Dec 20, 2023 17:43
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Matinee posted:That’s a really interesting take, thanks. It became even more textual in The Big Bang with the flashback to the angels episode where Eleven talks to Amy without his jacket on. I remember a lot of forums speculation before the reveal as to whether that was a “clue” or deliberate thing, or just a wardrobe continuity error. (Also helped by the fact the original scene *really* looks like they’re trying to film around the fact Smith doesn’t have his jacket for whatever reason - maybe a late reshoot where the wardrobe had already gone to another location).
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Dec 20, 2023 18:06
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I loved these threads during season 5 when people were getting mad about continuity errors like The Doctor's disappearing/reappearing jacket in Flesh and Stone... and then bam in the final act of the finale it's revealed that it was not only intentional but a key part of The Doctor rebooting the universe. That was such a good series, it's unfortunate that Moffat disappeared up his own arse in the later Matt Smith run. edit: beaten like a Dalek with a hand of omega baseball bat keep punching joe fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 18:32
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keep punching joe posted:I loved these threads during season 5 when people were getting mad about continuity errors like The Doctor's disappearing/reappearing jacket in Flesh and Stone... and then bam in the final act of the finale it's revealed that it was not only intentional but a key part of The Doctor rebooting the universe. You can't do a story where the gimmick is "every apparent continuity error is in fact a significant and important clue" unless you're exerting ironclad rigour to avoid any and all actual continuity errors, and that's never been what Doctor Who is good at. Otherwise you end up in a situation where half the continuity errors are cool clues worth discussing and half are red herrings that it's not rewarding or interesting to discuss and the audience doesn't really have any tools to discern which is which until you get to your finale, at which point you're going to infuriate anyone who got really excited about Rory working at the same hospital since 1990 only to find out that whoops, that was an actual goof, not a fake goof.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:01
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It's 2023. Half the content creator economy is screenshotting episodes of nerd poo poo and going "DOCTOR WHO IN MCU CONFIRMED?!?" when there's a SHIELD patch on a day player's jacket. I don't think you can blame Moffat for that when he was always clear to highlight the stuff that was important (the Flesh And Stone bit isn't some background thing, it's much like the reveal in Wild Blue Yonder where it could be read as a weird edit that's drawn your attention but is actually a plot point)
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Dec 20, 2023 19:07
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I was kinda sad that this weird painting just turned out to be a weird painting, and not a thread in a larger mystery.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:08
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keep punching joe posted:I was kinda sad that this weird painting just turned out to be a weird painting, and not a thread in a larger mystery. His name is James Cordon, just because he's a poo poo person doesn't mean we should reduce him to an insulting description.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:12
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I think Moffat was very tuned into that type of nitpicky nerd culture (he used to post on outpost gallifrey, all the stuff in Blink about DVD Easter Eggs being a plot device, River Song with all her metatextual “Spoilers…” stuff). At the very least, I respect him for baking it in to season 5 in a reasonably interesting way, but it’s a magic trick that can’t really be repeated once the audience is wise to what to look out for. (See: Bad Wolf being reasonably subtlety hidden in S1, but then characters would just bellow “TORCHWOOD” or “MISTER SAXON” at the camera in subsequent seasons)
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Dec 20, 2023 19:20
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keep punching joe posted:I was kinda sad that this weird painting just turned out to be a weird painting, and not a thread in a larger mystery. holy poo poo, it's roy
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Dec 20, 2023 19:23
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Gaz-L posted:It's 2023. Half the content creator economy is screenshotting episodes of nerd poo poo and going "DOCTOR WHO IN MCU CONFIRMED?!?" when there's a SHIELD patch on a day player's jacket. I don't think you can blame Moffat for that when he was always clear to highlight the stuff that was important (the Flesh And Stone bit isn't some background thing, it's much like the reveal in Wild Blue Yonder where it could be read as a weird edit that's drawn your attention but is actually a plot point) I mean, it's not 2023 when Moffat is shooting Series 5, unless he's been playing a much longer game than any of us have credited him for. And Rory's ID really isn't an obscure background detail, the camera zooms right in on it and everything.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:25
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keep punching joe posted:I was kinda sad that this weird painting just turned out to be a weird painting, and not a thread in a larger mystery. God, I remember people theorising that was meant to be William Hartnell, somehow.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:25
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Warthur posted:Like I said, though, I think it sets up expectations that the series inevitably can't pull off. There's another goof in Series 5 where Rory's hospital ID card says it was issued in 1990, which makes absolutely no timeline sense whatsoever - but that's not actually part of the timey-wimeyness, it is simply a production goof we weren't meant to pick up on. It was a cool thing when it worked though, and I cant get behind "you shouldnt do the cool thing because you wont always be that good" as a philosophy. The Pandorica Opens was really fun, it paid off that series really well, using the continuity stuff added a fun level to it, and; Warthur posted:By drawing your attention to them, Moffat is doing exactly what he shouldn't be doing as a storyteller. The whole point of the art is to use narrative sleight of hand to direct the audience's attention to the bits which can bear that attention, and away from the bits which will disintegrate if the audience stares hard enough. Sure, it resolves one particular continuity mystery, but in doing so it turns every other contradiction the show incorporates from that point forward into a big, confusing red herring. it didnt do any of the things you seem worried it would do? Like it aired 13 years ago, and I dont think it particularly encouraged any new way of watching Who, certainly not to any extent that anyone has to care about or did any damage to the show? I'm not saying there arent rabid nitpickers, but if you think they sprang into being in 2010 I can very much assure you they were there before it aired.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:27
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Matinee posted:God, I remember people theorising that was meant to be William Hartnell, somehow. Its plainly Nick Cave.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:28
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Matinee posted:(See: Bad Wolf being reasonably subtlety hidden in S1, but then characters would just bellow “TORCHWOOD” or “MISTER SAXON” at the camera in subsequent seasons) Oh I do hope Rusty's story arc plans have moved beyond 'here's the season's mystery word'.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:29
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MikeJF posted:Oh I do hope Rusty's story arc plans have moved beyond 'here's the season's mystery word'. I’d really rather they don’t bother. As others have said, we now live in an age of “TOP TEN details you MISSED in Doctor Who that change EVERYTHING” YouTube clickbait. It becomes tiresome and distracting ephemera at a certain point. That said, because I skimmed through the dwsr Twitter feed the other day, there was a word that Mel said in The Giggle that I’m fairly sure is going to play into at least the finale of next season.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:35
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Zingo?
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Dec 20, 2023 19:39
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I'm still waiting to meet Will and Fall from the Silence mystery season.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:44
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SiKboy posted:It was a cool thing when it worked though, and I cant get behind "you shouldnt do the cool thing because you wont always be that good" as a philosophy. The Pandorica Opens was really fun, it paid off that series really well, using the continuity stuff added a fun level to it, and I don't mind doing the cool thing! But, you know, Moffat already did the cool thing twice (in Blink and The Girl In the Fireplace), it was already time to move on and do a different cool thing. (His self-plagiarism gets really wild when you consider that the Eleventh Doctor basically never had a series arc which wasn't "a bunch of baddies team up to try and stop the Doctor doing a thing he does because they tried to team up to stop him".) And I think series 5 in particular suffers from trying too hard to be like an RTD season (here's a companion in love with the Doctor, here's a episode set in a weird far future setting in the New Earth slot, here's one set in history with classic monsters which turn out to be aliens, etc. etc...) when there was a chance to do a clean break and define a different way of doing the show which should have just been taken. Just tell good, self-contained stories and then end the season with another good, self-contained story. I guarantee that in the parallel universe where RTD didn't introduce series-long arcs to Doctor Who, nobody is feeling like the series is missing anything major by their absence because, just like in this timeline, people care more about individual stories than season arcs anyway. Matinee posted:That said, because I skimmed through the dwsr Twitter feed the other day, there was a word that Mel said in The Giggle that I’m fairly sure is going to play into at least the finale of next season.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:46
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:Zingo? At the risk of contributing to the kind of nitpicky audience culture we’re having an interesting discussion about, I’ll make a post in the spoiler thread in a bit. It’s also a theory based entirely on location footage of episodes that haven’t aired yet, so it’s definitely a potential spoiler.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:48
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MikeJF posted:Oh I do hope Rusty's story arc plans have moved beyond 'here's the season's mystery word'. From the couple of episodes we've gotten so far it seems like it's pretty much the same. The Meep's "boss" and whoever the Toymaker was afraid of. Whoever it was in this thread who noted the inclusion of the Gods of Ragnarok but the absence of Fenric among the list of the Doctor's foes is on to something I suspect, that's a good call.
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Dec 20, 2023 19:50
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Matinee posted:At the risk of contributing to the kind of nitpicky audience culture we’re having an interesting discussion about, I’ll make a post in the spoiler thread in a bit. Oh, and here I was thinking I was just making a stupid joke about a throwaway bit of RTD bafflegab. I'll look forward to it!
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Dec 20, 2023 19:58
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SiKboy posted:it didnt do any of the things you seem worried it would do? Like it aired 13 years ago, and I dont think it particularly encouraged any new way of watching Who, certainly not to any extent that anyone has to care about or did any damage to the show? I'm not saying there arent rabid nitpickers, but if you think they sprang into being in 2010 I can very much assure you they were there before it aired.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:10
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Matinee posted:God, I remember people theorising that was meant to be William Hartnell, somehow.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:12
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lines posted:There's an odd line about coincidences in the preview as well. I definitely think this is relevant. Things are getting, well, Myffic.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:23
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Warthur posted:Yeah, that is kind of a strong point against the idea that the direction in the Moffat era was very very careful and deliberate and artfully made sure not to draw your attention to something unless you were meant to pay attention to it, because if that were actually being attempted that shot qualifies as malpractice. I think it wasn't helped by the fact the house in The Lodger was meant to be... kind of a Tardis, but not really a Tardis? Which then got an obtuse callback in Day Of The Moon? I'm also remembering a scene where River Song is outside Amy's childhood home and sees scorch marks on the grass that looked kinda like the pattern that a Dalek would make if its flying gear produced heat?? None of this was addressed again or amounted to anything, but I remember reading a lot of speculation about it all. Matinee fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 20:26
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keep punching joe posted:I was kinda sad that this weird painting just turned out to be a weird painting, and not a thread in a larger mystery. Nick Cave And The Bad Wolf
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Dec 20, 2023 20:31
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Matinee posted:
The Dalek prints were addressed in that very episode, members of the Bad Guy Alliance visited her house and took a psychic print of it so they could build the pandorica trap.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:39
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Matinee posted:I think it wasn't helped by the fact the house in The Lodger was meant to be... kind of a Tardis, but not really a Tardis? Which then got an obtuse callback in Day Of The Moon? I wish James Corden didn't suck, 'cause I loved both of his episodes and could never understand why they're so hated.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:52
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SiKboy posted:Its plainly Nick Cave. I really was hoping Nick Cave would end up appearing  Doctor Who and the Bad Seeds would be a great Target book title!
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Dec 20, 2023 20:57
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LividLiquid posted:Whoa, it did? What was it? The episodes are fine, he's a decent enough actor (Gavin and Stacey was his breakout hit for a reason, he's actually fun in Ocean's Eight), he's just a loving awful human being. Although his second episode does somehow have him undo cyber conversion by hearing his baby. I guess that's just writers not knowing what to do with the Cybermen again though. Jerusalem posted:I really was hoping Nick Cave would end up appearing A lost Krynoid story.
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Dec 20, 2023 20:59
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LividLiquid posted:Whoa, it did? What was it? The Silence's time machine that we see at the end of Day of the Moon was the same one. It's implied it's abandoned in The Lodger because its crew were all killed in Day of the Moon. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Dec 20, 2023 |
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Dec 20, 2023 20:59
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Neat! Thank you.
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Dec 20, 2023 21:08
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Fil5000 posted:The episodes are fine, he's a decent enough actor (Gavin and Stacey was his breakout hit for a reason, he's actually fun in Ocean's Eight), he's just a loving awful human being. Although his second episode does somehow have him undo cyber conversion by hearing his baby. I guess that's just writers not knowing what to do with the Cybermen again though. - Some people will be down for that combination, but for some people mixing the two flavours will absolutely yuck their yum (either because they don't like romcoms or they do, but don't want that flavour in their Doctor Who). - Romcoms really don't work if you're looking at one of the romantic leads and going "Ugh, it's them", which is unfortunately the response I have to Corden a lot of the time. I liked it better when it first aired but it's aged poorly and it's almost entirely down to just not wanting to see Corden on my screen in any context.
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Dec 20, 2023 21:28
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Khanstant posted:I'm still waiting to meet Will and Fall from the Silence mystery season. Nono, Will Fall is this guy who keeps going round interrupting prophecies as they're being spoken. Hence: "The Pandorica will open. Silence, Will Fall."
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Dec 20, 2023 22:01
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