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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:
Teabag Dome Scandal posted:
If there's enough room to slide the dishwasher back, surface-mount metal box with a Romex connector. If there's not, use a cut-in box with integral clamp and be 100% done with the whole thing. No requirement for a GFCI here, but it is not atypical to have this circuit be fed by an accessible GFCI outlet upstream.
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Dec 16, 2023 17:12
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While you have the dishwasher out, stick the probe from a water leak sensor where it goes and run the leads back to under the sink. 
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Dec 16, 2023 18:00
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Skip the flexible conduit and just get MC cable which already has the wires inside. Bare romex is debatably allowed inside a cabinet (depending on your electrical inspector's interpretation of whether the inside of a cabinet is somewhere the romex is 'exposed to physical damage' or not), but it is VERY common to see it done. It's not a 'must fix' by any means, but if you're already running new wires and adding boxes, just go ahead and run MC cable and never worry about it again. The only thing I think I NEED to do is deal with the bare romex to the dishwasher. I can either wire up an outlet in the next cabinet over or I can wire up the junction box with plug. Either way it needs to be somewhere else because there isn't enough room in the dishwasher cabinet for a box of any kind. babyeatingpsychopath posted:Surface-mount weatherpoof box, MC Connector, weatherproof faceplate with GFCI outlet. Done. You don't have to use the big plastic cover on the box. This is just to prevent any major drips from shorting out the back of the outlet. Seal the box to the wall with silicone of your choice, and seal around the connector with silicone if it makes you happy. quote:If there's enough room to slide the dishwasher back, surface-mount metal box with a Romex connector. If there's not, use a cut-in box with integral clamp and be 100% done with the whole thing. No requirement for a GFCI here, but it is not atypical to have this circuit be fed by an accessible GFCI outlet upstream. There isn't enough room to surface mount anything unfortunately. Are you suggesting an outlet back there? My understanding was it's better to have the outlet in a different cabinet. Shifty Pony posted:While you have the dishwasher out, stick the probe from a water leak sensor where it goes and run the leads back to under the sink. I was going to put one back there but one with a wire that I can turn off from a different cabinet seems like a good idea. Thanks!
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Dec 17, 2023 00:59
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:dishwasher Yeah, the standard is to have the outlet in the sink cabinet next door (edit: though not required). If you don't have room for a jbox behind the dw, you could just slip a piece of liquid-tight non-metallic flex over it (into the wall a bit and caulk around it at the wall) and take it over to the accessible cabinet. Land the flex with a male connector in to a box with the new outlet. Not a lot of chance of physical damage to the wire behind the dw other than mice, but having it protected between where it enters the accessible cabinet and receptacle box saves it from someone damaging it when storing items or working on plumbing. Dishwashers require GFCI protection (210ish). Think they moved some references to it to the appliance section in 2020. edit2: You could cut in a box, put a cover with a 1/2" or 3/4" knockout, and take a 90 out of it with the flex to buy even more room, but there should be room behind the dishwasher where the water and drain run (low and behind the dw). Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 02:23
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Blackbeer posted:edit2: You could cut in a box, put a cover with a 1/2" or 3/4" knockout, and take a 90 out of it with the flex to buy even more room, but there should be room behind the dishwasher where the water and drain run (low and behind the dw). I like the sound of this. Is there any reason I can't have this flush with the floor since that is where the current hole is? Or should I move it up the wall 6" and fix the drywall in the old hole?
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Dec 17, 2023 23:05
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:flush with the floor I'd try to keep things low as that's where the gap on the dw is. Makes things easier on you too. edit: If you want to be easy on yourself and you don't have access to flex non-metallic conduit by the foot, I don't see any reason to not use a cut in box and put a flush receptacle right there (like BEP posted). Should be enough room. I would put a GFCI breaker on the circuit (if the outlet is behind the dw). Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 23:11
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Any recommendations for a deep outlet cover? I recently ran a new outlet from an existing one, and I couldn't get the replacement box for the existing outlet quite all the way flush. It's pretty close, but any gap at all is pretty apparently so I'm trying to find an outlet cover that's just a little bit deeper that will flush that up. Only place I've been able to find is something like this https://www.kyleswitchplates.com/deep-beveled-duplex-outlet-cover-wall-plates/, but considering I'm just buying one and $8 shipping I really hate the idea of spending gd $16 on an outlet plate.
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Dec 21, 2023 16:54
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Bob Mundon posted:Any recommendations for a deep outlet cover? I recently ran a new outlet from an existing one, and I couldn't get the replacement box for the existing outlet quite all the way flush. It's pretty close, but any gap at all is pretty apparently so I'm trying to find an outlet cover that's just a little bit deeper that will flush that up. If the box is too deep a box extender would make a regular cover work. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Arlington-BE1-1-Gang-Electrical-Outlet-Box-Extender-White edit: ope, nevermind, think you've got the opposite problem I've trimmed off plastic boxes that stick out too far with metal shears, but it's a pain. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 17:16
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Oh sick let me know if it looks dangerous!!! Wall-mounting bit is a discrete LED driver wired to a barrel jack  bird just plugs in to the barrel, which is how it's rotatable in any direction  no obvious issues with the driver itself.  the most annoying part about it is the diameter of the wall bracket part is smaller than a US standard box, so I'm going to have to attach it to a blank and then to the box.
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Dec 21, 2023 17:16
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Blackbeer posted:If the box is too deep a box extender would make a regular cover work. Yeah seems like there's gotta be a better option. Enough wires I had to use a bigger box and I'm pretty sure it's about as deep as it can go. Strange deep outlet covers are a thing, but so hard to find.
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Dec 21, 2023 17:51
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https://www.kyleswitchplates.com/gap-filler-wall-plate-depth-extender-rings/ haven't used these personally but is that what you're looking for? e: wow that's the same exact site. my bad. Extant Artiodactyl fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Dec 21, 2023 |
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Dec 21, 2023 22:11
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Qwijib0 posted:Wall-mounting bit is a discrete LED driver wired to a barrel jack
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Dec 22, 2023 04:00
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The house I'm looking at buying has a utility cable going across the back yard, which supplies the house with power. I would like to be able to put a workshop in the yard. I assume that there are rules about giving utility workers access to the yard for servicing, and also rules about how close structures can come to the cable. Where would I look for those rules? In the building code? Since I'd need to do some excavation for the workshop foundation anyway, would it be at all reasonable to try to convince the utility to bury the supply line for the house? Like, dig a trench, put it in conduit, etc. The yard would be a bit nicer without a wire going overhead.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:21
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The house I'm looking at buying has a utility cable going across the back yard, which supplies the house with power. Does it supply anyone else's house with anything? If not the good news is it's all yours and while you're doing site work for your new shop you should probably look into burying the service to your house while you run utilities back to the new shop.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:25
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The house I'm looking at buying has a utility cable going across the back yard, which supplies the house with power. I would like to be able to put a workshop in the yard. I assume that there are rules about giving utility workers access to the yard for servicing, and also rules about how close structures can come to the cable. Where would I look for those rules? In the building code? As long as there isn't anything else in the way the only convincing needed will be paying for the material, labor, and permit costs involved in putting in the new service line and removing the old one. Expect to need a new meter base with a main disconnect, probably will be a couple thousand dollars all in unless it is a long run.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:59
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I had the supply line for my house buried this year and it cost me $940 all told to the utility company. That was 120 feet of line plus boring under my lawn to the new meter. My electrician was doing a new breaker box and upgrading service, so I can’t comment on what just taking the line underground would cost, but it did involve a new meter and some conduit, plus a new ground.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:54
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Motronic posted:Does it supply anyone else's house with anything? If not the good news is it's all yours and while you're doing site work for your new shop you should probably look into burying the service to your house while you run utilities back to the new shop. There's a pole just on the other side of the back fence, and the cable goes from that pole to the house and stops there. Sounds like it should be doable, which is great! Thanks, y'all. The house has a 100A service and a pretty full panel, so I'm gonna want to upgrade that anyway.
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Dec 23, 2023 01:21
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A trick that works in our area--when you call, request more juice for an EV charger or on-demand electric water heater. Asking for one of those two gets your service upgraded to 360 with buried lines at no cost. (Duke Power in a rural area of NC.)
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Dec 23, 2023 08:30
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Conveniently, if I do end up getting this house, I will, in fact, want an EV charger. So that works out nicely 
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Dec 23, 2023 14:31
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utilities have their own rules about who owns what, so you should check on that. with some, the customer owns just from the connection to utility (taps at the pole or handhole for underground) onward to their service equipment, some go further back and say the customer owns the service drop or lateral, some want a disconnect before the meter, some don't allow splices of any kind in the meter enclosure, some take 6 months to switch the service to a new location, it's all local conditions. probably won't change too much about the price of adding this on to a service upgrade, but it could really slow down your schedule.
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Dec 23, 2023 14:50
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Yeah, it's just something that I'd want to get the ball rolling on. I'm sure that the move would basically knock me out for at least a couple of months, in terms of feeling up to tackling new projects. ...also, my first step for my own projects would probably be building a temporary (i.e. small, on concrete piers) shed that's big enough to store my woodworking tools in.
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Dec 23, 2023 15:00
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Counterpoint: after closing but before move in is the ideal time to do a service and panel upgrade because it won't disrupt your life any to be without power.
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Dec 23, 2023 15:25
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Shifty Pony posted:Counterpoint: after closing but before move in is the ideal time to do a service and panel upgrade because it won't disrupt your life any to be without power. If you do get a service upgrade, you should only be without power for half a day. Usually, the new service is built while the old one is energized and once inspected and approved, the swap is done. PoCo pulls the meter and fuses, does the swap, and re-energizes all with the same crew at the same time. If your house shares a transformer with some neighbors, chat with them about getting service upgrades at the same time. The process takes longer, but the PoCo is MUCH more willing to do 2-5 houses at once than 1.
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Dec 23, 2023 15:31
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Main thing is that I think I'd want to do the panel upgrade and the buried line at the same time, but I don't want to bury the line until I know what permanent structures I'd want to build in the lot...unless I can convince the poco to run the wire around the perimeter of the lot or something. But yes, before move-in is the ideal time to do major work on the place.
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Dec 23, 2023 15:44
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Main thing is that I think I'd want to do the panel upgrade and the buried line at the same time, but I don't want to bury the line until I know what permanent structures I'd want to build in the lot...unless I can convince the poco to run the wire around the perimeter of the lot or something. But yes, before move-in is the ideal time to do major work on the place. If you want to do the trench yourself and have them lay the cable in, that's also fine. You wanna run around the perimeter? No worries; they'll charge you for the cable used. The burial depth rules specify the MINIMUM cover (the shallowest your trench can be), so everyone goes that depth because digging sucks. But there's nothing stopping you from putting your cable as deep as you want so that any structure you build won't hit it unless you need L-shaped foundations. Normal burial depth is 24", but if you're digging the trench and your trencher goes down to 48", go hog wild. As far as the panel upgrade and service upgrade, it makes sense to do it at the same time, but that's not required. A panel upgrade follows basically the same path. The new panel is installed and any new circuits are run and the whole thing is set up to be swapped somewhat rapidly. It's inspected and approved, then the PoCo pulls the meter. The electricians do the swap, it's inspected, and then the PoCo puts the meter back in. If your electricians are any good and can get their scheduling correct, this all happens same-day (meter first AM, inspection by lunch, meter reinstall afternoon); frequently, it's a two- or three-day process (meter pull and the swap, inspection next day, reconnect day after). Again, if the scheduling all lines up, the PoCo could be doing their service outage and the electricians can do the panel swap and get the inspection all on one day, but there's nothing saying these processes can't happen at different times. The meter-pulling folks at the PoCo are typically not the ones doing service upgrades, so they may not even be the same crew. tl,dr: of the previous paragraph: Can do them both at once, but that's not required.
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Dec 23, 2023 15:58
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That's exactly how it happened when I bought this house. The house had an overhead wire that I wanted buried. The electrician said no problem, but you're digging the trench. I was also upgrading from a FP 100 amp panel to a 200 amp that wouldn't burn my house down. Everything was swapped and power restored within one day. gently caress digging a trench ever again though. I had utilities in the way so I couldn't use a ditch witch, and I had to go to 48" because New England. Sub that part out if you can.
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Dec 23, 2023 16:21
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I don't know the exact dimensions, but I expect that the trench would be at least 75' if it were run the way I'd want it to go. That is absolutely "don't do it by hand" territory. I have no clue what all is buried back there...I wouldn't mind the opportunity to try using a ditch witch or back hoe, but it's also not something I'd be shy about subbing out. I appreciate the advice, everyone! Here's hoping I actually get to follow through on it...the seller has to accept my offer first. EDIT: quick question: would the cable burial process require going inside the house at all? Or can they just hook up the new cable to something outside the house? This is mostly only relevant because of my dog, who doesn't like contractors and other home invaders. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 16:33
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:EDIT: quick question: would the cable burial process require going inside the house at all? Or can they just hook up the new cable to something outside the house? This is mostly only relevant because of my dog, who doesn't like contractors and other home invaders. It goes to your meter base, wherever that is. It's funny seeing the descriptions above, because in Los Angeles a lot of them are combined meter / main panels that are outside for detached single family homes. I know other places use a dedicated meter-sized box outside so that the breakers can be inside where the snow isn't.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:11
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Previously (in Minnesota) my meter was outside and then inside in the basement was my main panel. We had the panel replaced, and the service upgraded. The meter is in the same place, but now it connects to a main service disconnect also outside, and then my new panel in the same place as the old one connects to that main disconnect. Which technically makes my main panel a sub panel for purposes of ground/neutral bonding. Also one thing that's probably obvious but I don't see it discussed is if you have a 100 Amp service and want to do a 200 amp service and first do a panel swap before the service upgrade, make sure the panel can easily be upgraded to 200 amps (or whatever your final amperage will be) because you don't want to have to swap the panel again.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:. I have no clue what all is buried back there.. First thing you would do if using powered equipment or pickaxes (or anything else you might swing with a good amount of force) is call 811 or whatever the gently caress your state/province has to get public utilities located. They will let you know if there is any publicly owned utilities running through your back yard. Next you would get a private locate done to locate any privately owned utilities (electrical lines to a shed, pool house, gas line for bbq etc.). Even if there is nothing there, if you sub out the trenching part the contractor might insist on a private locate. I sure as gently caress do regardless when on private property. Also never assume that buried lines go directly from the main in the street to your meter/shut off valve or whatever. They don't always do that
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Dec 23, 2023 20:07
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Oh yeah, I had to call 811 before doing my workshop in CA. How does a private location service work? Do they just check over the area with a metal detector or something? Also, my offer was accepted  
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Dec 23, 2023 21:09
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This is definitely ditch witch territory, those things are amazing. I just did a 160ft trench with one this summer on my in-laws place for the power feed to their wood shop they built. Definitely call your poco and also Google their service installation standards and read them before you call. I went into this headfirst in like September of last year not knowing that the scheduling and project management part on national grids part was going to take months, they finally called me back in early December. Even as a non electrician I was able to get all my work done and pre inspected by the town the day before, except for the last stick of conduit into the indoor panel and the feeder conductors in it, and the final overhead hookup. 8am they pulled the old meter, I spent till about 3-4 pulling all the existing breakers out of the indoor panel, putting the last of the conduit and feeders in, landing it on the lugs and then put as many of my overstock of AFCI and GFCI breakers in as I needed to to comply with 2020 NEC, rewiring the whole panel neatly (it had been a huge rats nest with ten years worth of incremental upgrades added) before calling the inspector out to do the official inspection. He got it all squared away and my power was back on a few hours later though I'd only expected to get power back the next day. It's definitely something I would do before moving in so it won't interrupt your power like someone else said. Try to avoid going under any areas you'll want to build so you don't mess up the undisturbed soil where your footings will be or have to worry about burial depth being sufficient to miss the future footings. I can't recall where you are but somewhere I've still got the links to the service installation standards for national grid, pg&e, PSE, penlight, and I think enersource.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:46
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Thanks! That gives me a good idea of what all is involved. I'll probably hire a contractor to do most of the stuff that the poco isn't responsible for. Whether I'm able to get it all taken care of before I move in is an open question... the sale won't close until late January, and I'll want to get my old place cleared out pretty quickly after that so that there's time to fix it up in advance of the 2024 house shopping season.
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Dec 24, 2023 00:37
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Are AFCI/GFCI combo Square D QO breakers simply $65-70/ea now or is there some hidden reputable online electrical supply house with better pricing?
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Dec 24, 2023 04:13
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Oh yeah, I had to call 811 before doing my workshop in CA. How does a private location service work? Do they just check over the area with a metal detector or something? You call them up, and tell them what you're looking to do. They come by with a variety of equipment thats pretty similar to the public guys. Occasionally they'll have Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) but that can get expensive and is frequently not necessary. Access to the house is helpful to them to do their jobs. If you're just interested in the backyard they may just scan the work area rather than the entire yard. Mainly depends on what you're trying to do. If there is nothing in the back yard besides your overhead wire, they might just ask where you expect to be trenching and do the scanning along that route with say a 5 or 10 foot wide span or similar.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:14
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yeah. That's what I did with my house. 16kW of solar with capacity for 24kW, 12kWh of battery, 2 inverters, ATS with generator input, protected loads panel, split "main" panel and house subpanel. "Protected loads" panel is routed through a load-shedding power switch unit (with priority) so if the battery is low and the sun isn't shining and the power's been out for more than 3 days, my system will prioritize the oven over the dryer over the water heater, with different priorities when the sun is shining vs not. I don't remember if I ever posted an update, but I have stamped plans in with the city for my dumb ideas. Mine isn't automatic as Herr Psychopath's is but I will have power when the grid is down, and it will be on me to do things like turn off the pool pump/heater and not run the dryer. That should be fine as our outages are generally few and far between, with someone home at some point most days. If it goes out for an extended period while we're on vacation I'll have to get someone to go flip some breakers to not excessively cycle the batteries. All of this is SCE approved software and hardware, and they do a test as part of my permission to operate that the grid signaled export shutdown happens within 2 seconds (or something close to it, there is a number in the 80 page contract I signed.)  The only thing the engineer flagged is my garage needs a bunch of extra wood bracing, which is typical for garages around here. They were built to exact minimum spec (you hope) for spans and loads. Easy fix as the garage isn't finished.
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Dec 24, 2023 18:59
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that's a nice set for enphase batteries. hoping you're getting the battery only version, their generator integration is so janky and i haaaaated every second of the battery + generator install i did. until one of these companies is making the battery, generator and solar...and is not the current gen of generac products, i don't think it'll work worry free. e: i've complained in this thread before that enphase had wireless comms between the equipment but the 5p system is thankfully, finally hardwired Extant Artiodactyl fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Dec 25, 2023 |
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Dec 25, 2023 04:17
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Nice, yeah not a fan of wireless. No generator inlet. What you see drawn is what I'm getting.
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Dec 25, 2023 04:58
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Shifty Pony posted:Are AFCI/GFCI combo Square D QO breakers simply $65-70/ea now or is there some hidden reputable online electrical supply house with better pricing? I seem to recall buying a fair number on Amazon for less than that but I might be brain farting. Make sure you buy the correct kind, if you have a plug on neutral capable panel (PON) you'll want the PON breakers for sure but if your panel is not PON capable, you will have to get the pigtail kind.
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Dec 25, 2023 06:54
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Probably simple question: I don’t have much personal experience with GFCI breakers, just breakers and GFCI outlets. Is there any way to tell from the breaker itself (or does it depend on the model) if it’s tripping due to a ground fault or an overload? At my in-laws for the holidays and their new pool is just now ready for use. But this afternoon when my FIL went to open the (motorized) cover, it only went a short length and then shut off. I took a look and saw that the breaker had tripped. Resetting it, it’ll turn back on for just a fraction of a second before tripping again. I’m not at all optimistic I’ll be able to diagnose and fix whatever is going on but I want to at least make an effort because my kids will be upset they can’t go swimming on Christmas in grandpas new pool. I’m more inclined to think it’s a ground fault than an overload but that’s not much more than a hunch and think it’d be useful to at least narrow it down to one or the other if possible.
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Dec 25, 2023 23:05
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