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I would just not worry about it. How far away are you from Los Angeles? Because the difference between an everyday 172 at 120 knots and a turbo 182 at 160 is only 20 minutes per hour of flight -- and only in cruise flight! -- but you'll be paying a whole lot more than a 30% premium for the faster plane. There's plenty to do when you're PIC and you might even appreciate things happening at a slower pace when you start getting into dense airspace. In any case, as noted above, it doesn't really matter what you learn in. Airmanship is far more important than the specific layout or performance quirks of any given airplane. You'll be doing some transition training for any new model you fly, and anything that cruises fast is going to be a complex category as well so you'll need that training too. The factors in choosing a primary trainer I'd say are availability, cost, and comfort. My flight school only had two pipers but like 16 cessnas, so a high wing was the obvious choice for scheduling purposes. The 152s were noticeably cheaper than the 172s and I fit them just fine so that's what I went with. Plus they were mostly used by the high school kids on scholarships so they also had better availability. But choosing the 152 limited my choice of instructors, because a couple of them didn't fly that airframe because they literally didn't fit inside. There are further factors to consider, like if you're at an airport where you have to fly a while to get to the training area, maybe you do pick something a little faster (i.e. 172 vs 152, not trying to learn in a bonanza or something) so you spend more time training and less time commuting. Or how the Cessnas are cooler on hot days if you live in a hot place. But that's really kind of getting into the weeds. Pick a plane you'll be able to fly regularly that fits your budget and your rear end. That's it Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 17, 2023 |
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Dec 17, 2023 20:19
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When I was instructing, I had to talk a guy out of buying a Cessna TTX to learn to fly in, since the resulting maintenance bills would have been absolutely astronomical, it wasn't clear the guy could have even obtained insurance, and I really didn't want to test out how good my personal liability policy was.
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Dec 17, 2023 20:42
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Last month, I flew to Burbank from CRQ twice for work. The first time, I took a 230hp C182. Flight time was 00:54. The next week, I took the same route with a 180hp Archer II, flight time was 00:55. The cost per hour for the 182 was about $50 more than the Archer. Granted the 182 also had an autopilot and far better avionics, they both were totally fine for that trip. I think when you start to go farther, and if you’re carrying more stuff/people, the 182 starts to make up for its higher price in speed and amenities.
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Dec 17, 2023 21:45
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Kwolok posted:Right I have begun to realize this looking at my local flyers club rental rates. So let me put this another way: If I wanted to get proficient at a cheap but decently fast (I realize this still means slow but like fast for its class/cost) what type of aircraft should I be looking at. I learned on a 172 and then got checked out on a 152 and Archer. I like the Archer better, and it does cruise a bit faster just due to not being a flying box, but I think the 172 takes a lighter touch that I appreciate having. Also if you get a chance to fly a 152, do it, it'll teach you some things. fake edit: people will tell you 'oh the hershey bar wings float.; this is a lie, just hit your airspeed
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Dec 17, 2023 23:16
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Awesome thanks for all the thoughtful posts, you're all right, I should just focus on whats in front of me and realistically the minor differences are likely not that bearing all things considered.
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Dec 18, 2023 01:07
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Kwolok congrats on taking your first steps toward learning to fly! Have you thought about what the end game post license is going to be? What are you going to use your ticket for? Hundred dollar hamburgers? Transportation to remote and far-ish away places? Just boring holes in the sky and doing trips around the pattern? Any and all are fine goals to have but having a clear goal is helpful to have when inevitably money or time or ambition run low and it will help you to get through those times instead of spending thousands of dollars without having anything to show for it. I'll say this and it isn't really apropos of anything but these thoughts might be rolling around the back of your head because they sure did mine when I was at that stage of training: regularly renting or even buying an airplane as a means of travel is an extremely tempting and romantic idea that is ultimately pretty pointless unless you have a very specific mission you're trying to accomplish. I got real into wanting to buy a real all weather cross country machine (a Cessna 210 or similar) but realized my wife kids and I could literally fly first class for the rest of our lives with the money we would spend on such an airplane. I'm not trying to discourage you or any one else; just sayin. Anyway for a hobby 10k to get into it isn't really all that much money and I wish you the best of luck! Also fly the Cessna because Pipers are junk made by meth heads in Florida
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Dec 18, 2023 01:19
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Nofeed posted:Checkride! For my recent PPL Checkride, the big thing that helped me was filling out the flight plan on paper completely, not just a printout form foreflight. I did all the calcs with a chart and an e6b ahead of time (double checking with the foreflight numbers). There were several questions on the oral part that we didn't dive in to since I could just point to where I had already done the calculation. Otherwise the examiner would have wanted me to do it real-time (much more stressful with a DPE watching over your shoulder). For the flying portion, think before doing, say that you're correcting if you see a maneuver going a bit awry, make the dpe confident that you're flying the airplane, not the other way around. Also be like me and accidentally nail your short field landing after blowing it 5x in a row in practice. Walrusmaster fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 01:43
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Arson Daily posted:Kwolok congrats on taking your first steps toward learning to fly! Have you thought about what the end game post license is going to be? What are you going to use your ticket for? Hundred dollar hamburgers? Transportation to remote and far-ish away places? Just boring holes in the sky and doing trips around the pattern? Any and all are fine goals to have but having a clear goal is helpful to have when inevitably money or time or ambition run low and it will help you to get through those times instead of spending thousands of dollars without having anything to show for it. These are all good questions. They are similar questions to what people asked me when I told them I was going to get paraglide certified. Was I going to go into acro? Cross country? Etc. four years later and I'm still just content practicing launch and lands and putting around under my wing. My point being, I adore aviation as a hobby and I'm sure I'll get a similar feeling out of flying. Flying around locally, or to a nearby city or so every now and then to visit someone or just see something new will likely tide me over for a good long while. My ultimate goal is probably just to take friends on little trips, let them fly with me and experience it as well. Sure that might wear thin eventually but I think this is a good goal. I doubt I'll ever own but there is a really great flyers club here.
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Dec 18, 2023 06:42
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Welp flew the archer and while I do think the two trainers are similar the archer just feels a bit cooler. I can totally see it being an oven on hot days but it doesn't tend to get too hot here and I think I'm gonna train on it primarily. Thing bucks around in take off though lol I also did my first landing in it and really bounced down the runway
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Dec 19, 2023 03:35
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Kwolok posted:My ultimate goal is probably just to take friends on little trips, let them fly with me and experience it as well. Sure that might wear thin eventually but I think this is a good goal. I doubt I'll ever own but there is a really great flyers club here. 1800 hours here, it never wears thin (unless you do the same goddamn trip three times in one day, in which case you may need a few days off from that specific route).
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Dec 19, 2023 06:38
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Kwolok posted:My ultimate goal is probably just to take friends on little trips, let them fly with me and experience it as well. Sure that might wear thin eventually but I think this is a good goal. I doubt I'll ever own but there is a really great flyers club here. I’d bet it doesn’t wear thin. When I was going to FL and back for work 3 days a week it almost started getting stale, but even then flying is neat and the job is good. Flying GA with friends just for kicks? I don’t see that getting old ever. poo poo is so fun.
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Dec 19, 2023 17:29
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I need to get some better friends, no one wants to go flying with me 
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Dec 19, 2023 21:55
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Walrusmaster posted:I need to get some better friends, no one wants to go flying with me If there's one thing I've learned after all my CPL time building and then working as an instructor full-time, it's that flying by yourself is the best thing ever, and it should be cherished. Get a headset with Bluetooth and just vibe while doing the coolest goddamn thing on earth. Nothing beats listening to 'Pac as you fly down one of the most beautiful valleys on earth approaching a mostly-deserted airstrip.
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Dec 20, 2023 03:02
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Agreed. Much as I enjoy flying recreationally with friends and family, flying solo is The poo poo. I need to get back to GA stat. e: I'm out of probation at Hawaiian! They can't fire me for being an idiot and I get a pay raise! 
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Dec 20, 2023 06:41
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Congrats!! I’ll be posting something similar in April, lord willing. Also yeah I remember doing the solo GA for fun thing and I miss it. I used to have a bunch of airport bum friends when I was a CFI and people would let me use their planes if I put some gas in and kept them current when needed. Extremely good times.
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Dec 20, 2023 07:08
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East coast guard freq was entertaining tonight to say the least. “You guys shouldn’t be on here, it’s for serious use only.” “Go away Delta, you probably wear your hat under your headset.”
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Dec 21, 2023 07:08
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Well, the reality of being a first officer at a plucky, small, culturally rich Texas based air carrier has become slightly better. The new contract was almost completely rewritten and has patched in a lot of the open holes. I still have some skepticism about some parts of it but at this point, eh 🤷🏻
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Dec 21, 2023 16:18
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Bob A Feet posted:Well, the reality of being a first officer at a plucky, small, culturally rich Texas based air carrier has become slightly better. The new contract was almost completely rewritten and has patched in a lot of the open holes. I still have some skepticism about some parts of it but at this point, eh 🤷🏻 The internet chatter seems to be saying that it’s alternately the second coming of Labor or the worst thing that’s happened to SWA since they did away with FA miniskirts. Any details on what’s good and bad? Trying to live vicariously through people whose union actually gets them paid.
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Dec 21, 2023 16:28
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MrYenko posted:The internet chatter seems to be saying that it’s alternately the second coming of Labor or the worst thing that’s happened to SWA since they did away with FA miniskirts. Any details on what’s good and bad? Trying to live vicariously through people whose union actually gets them paid. Good: FO pay is roughly legacy 757 + 1%, first year pay is easily industry leading, disability is great, retirement. patched up some holes in scheduling, some positive reserve rule changes, training bidding, way better per diem, crew meals paid as money Bad: retro pay not 100%, CA pay is roughly 739 pay + 1% (they want more), Cobases for DFW, IAH, and ORD, some weak language in most sections, no strong hotel language (we have some lovely hotels in our system), no major overhaul to reserve rules (no LC basically). The emotion you see is from the crowd that was expecting 100% retro and captain pay to be higher. I honestly think some guys are so disillusioned that they lost a grounded reference to reality during the negotiations. They’re a very vocal and emotional group. I’m prob a yes because it solves every problem I’ve had and what affect the pilot group mostly. I think it’ll pass but prob with a slim margin.
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Dec 21, 2023 19:09
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What's first year FO pay becoming? just curious.
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Dec 21, 2023 20:07
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It will be $116.41 per TFP, which is our wacky pay system that pays distance instead of time (roughly and in most cases). The generally accepted hourly conversion is that it is 15% less than what an hourly rate would be. So final answer is $116.41 x 1.149 = 133.75 an hour, roughly.
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Dec 21, 2023 20:29
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The reserve section that people are whining about is hilarious because the company and the union both keep going back to "the most productive pilots in the industry" and they're not going to get you huge pay raises to sit on your rear end doing long call. You can't have it both ways and the people who whine about it are obviously at the wrong airline. The hotel language is disappointing and the fact that we didn't get aircraft swaps included in the leg change override is a bummer but the only real hard no I had was any change in the way our sick time was accrued and paid out. Those didn't change so I'm probably a yes unless some poison pill emerges. 1% better rates than delta? Bet your rear end thats a good deal, and thats just for top of the pay scale captains, it much better for pretty much everybody else. Reserve proffer and an actual no poo poo training bid are huge huge wins. Plus new vacation bidding rules and the ability to shift your vacation are also big pluses. Having to spend your uniform allowance at the company store is crap because all they sell is garbage but maybe I'll just buy a new roller board for every day of the week. One thing mentioned on the union forum was the huge difference in monthly guarantee between DL and SWA. It's over 20 hours in SWA's favor. Everyone is going to make a lot more money period. Having a bigger number on paper is just dickwaving and when all the power players get in on open time you're gonna see real numbers put up. Anyway it'll pass but as BAF said it'll probably be fairly slim because of a bunch of out of touch captains.
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Dec 22, 2023 01:42
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Rolo posted:East coast guard freq was entertaining tonight to say the least. "You wear your hat" is a chirp I haven't heard since one of my friends at Blue Streak would routinely use it when regaling us with stories of flying at a regional. Isn't Delta bad about it to the point where you'd better not get caught dead not wearing it on probation?
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Dec 23, 2023 04:45
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My understanding is it’s a mandatory part of the uniform.
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Dec 23, 2023 04:57
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Reddit just covered this! Unironically: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/RmAScqLuEme Ironically: https://www.reddit.com/r/Shittyaskflying/s/ATSKGKwDBY
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Dec 23, 2023 06:05
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Rolo posted:My understanding is it’s a mandatory part of the uniform. I know someone who didn't get a Delta job on their first interview because they incorrectly answered "what would you do if the captain isn't wearing their hat?". Apparently the correct answer was some version of "freak the gently caress out because this signifies the end times are upon us".
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Dec 23, 2023 07:32
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Squawk 7500 and pull out your FFDO piece
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Dec 23, 2023 07:35
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Dumb question: y'all ever worried that we're mucking about with one of the few remaining systems that still use leaded fuel? I know it probably doesn't matter but you hear about what leaded gasoline did to the boomers...
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Dec 24, 2023 06:09
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I'm not concerned, no. The entire country's annual consumption of avgas is equal to about six hours of the country's motor fuel use. Obviously the lead in the exhaust is bad but it's a miniscule amount unless you live right under the pattern I guess. Just don't be the old fogie who checks his tank levels by how many knuckles of fuel he can feel. The biggest reason to get rid of leaded avgas is that NIMBYs will use it as a reason to get small airports shut down.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:32
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From what I can find, annual Avgas consumption in the US is somewhere around 186 million gallons, which is slightly over half the amount of unleaded gas consumed *daily* in the US. It's obviously not great for people doing fuelling or career flight instructors, but since we know lead is dangerous, small children aren't generally exposed to avgas, and most people in aviation won't have any significant exposure outside of flying GA airplanes, I'm pretty sure most of us are more likely to end up with health issues from various "forever" chemicals than from avgas.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:44
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I would also love for this to be an impetus for the FAA to be less draconian with the STC process and perhaps certification of GA aircraft in general in the eventual hope that costs come back down. It'll never happen, but I can dream that a 4-place new-build piston single would cost as much as a reasonably nice car instead of a reasonably nice house. I could also dream that a new car and new house were affordable to someone making hourly wage.....
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Dec 24, 2023 06:59
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Jet A1 is way worse that Avgas anyway.
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Dec 24, 2023 07:01
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azflyboy posted:From what I can find, annual Avgas consumption in the US is somewhere around 186 million gallons, which is slightly over half the amount of unleaded gas consumed *daily* in the US. Right I agree with everyone about this, for the general public. But I mean more as a GA pilot, being exposed to avgas and exhaust at a much higher and more concentrated rate than just "general public". Of course I do live ~1500 meters from one of the most active runways in San Diego so I'm probably hosed anyway.
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Dec 24, 2023 07:49
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Jet A1 is way worse that Avgas anyway. Why's that? Don't know anything about A1...
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Dec 24, 2023 10:02
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I wear a disposable nitrile glove when I'm doing preflight so 100LL doesn't touch my skin when I'm sumping fuel or whatever. I've never seen anyone else do it.
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Dec 24, 2023 20:32
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Groda posted:Why's that? Don't know anything about A1... Back in my Bombardier days one of the installers got jet fuel all over his hands and arms and a week later his skin was all blistered flaked up and popped. I routinely get avgas in my fingers I try to wash my hands asap after preflight but carrying gloves around is probably the smart play. Still sometimes after a refueling I come home smelling like gasoline because the fumes still come out and get into the vents etc.
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Dec 24, 2023 21:13
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An old A&P I used to work with never wore skin protection of any kind and would routinely pour MEK on his hands while holding a part so that he could clean it. Same with 5606 hydraulic fluid. I lost touch with him 20 years ago, but I'd bet he's not alive anymore.
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Dec 24, 2023 21:46
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Infinotize posted:I wear a disposable nitrile glove when I'm doing preflight so 100LL doesn't touch my skin when I'm sumping fuel or whatever. I've never seen anyone else do it. I do this too, and while fueling.
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Dec 25, 2023 03:37
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Merry Christmas, air goons. My family got me the Lego Concorde, kick rear end!
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Dec 26, 2023 01:03
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Are there any aircraft or training that involves landing an aircraft using instruments only? I was under the impression that only super duper mega advanced jet liners had auto land, but I am not actually sure how that goes but my friends dad was saying how he had to land aircraft using only instruments back during the vietnam era (T-28/T-34 were what he trained on). That seems... odd to me, and not exactly practical for the instruments they had back then...
Kwolok fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Dec 26, 2023 |
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Dec 26, 2023 08:39
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