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Koburn
Oct 8, 2004

FIND THE JUDGE CHILD OR YOUR CITY DIES
Grimey Drawer
:siren: early humble choice january leaks :siren:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/368260/Marvels_Midnight_Suns/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1649080/Two_Point_Campus/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158370/Aragami_2/

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SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Oh sweet I was thinking of picking up Midnight Suns on the sale but now I need not bother

Kragger99
Mar 21, 2004
Pillbug

Kaddish posted:

This is a fun survivorslike where you have to play some inventory tetris between rounds. A little annoying to manage the inventory with controller though.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2342950/God_Of_Weapons/

Thanks for posting this. I bought it, and had a blast with my first run. A great accompaniment to Backpack Hero.

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021

SirSamVimes posted:

Oh sweet I was thinking of picking up Midnight Suns on the sale but now I need not bother

Hell, same.

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

deep dish peat moss posted:

I have never run into a single person ever who had a hard time understanding THAC0 outside of these forums :qq:

Not everyone was raised in isolation by an apocalyptic grognard cult.

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽
Is there, and if so, what's the best jackbox pack right now?

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh

deep dish peat moss posted:

You roll a D20 to attack. THAC0 is the amount you have to roll to hit. You add the target's Armor Class to your roll.

If your THAC0 is 15 and the target has -2 AC, you roll a D20 and remove 2 from the result. If the final result is 15 or higher, you hit. If the target's has 5AC, you roll a D20 and add 5 to the result.

It's almost the exact same system as current edition D&D except the "number you have to hit" is part of the attacker's stats (THAC0) instead of the defender's stats (AC). Both systems have modifiers from various sources that get added to the final result - current edition stuff actually requires way more math because there is a much larger pool of potential modifiers.
I dunno how your GM handles it but I don't actually know the AC or attack modifiers (or would-be THAC0) of my opponents. In the modern system, one person calculates their number using exclusively information available to them and the other person compares it to their number, also calculated exclusively using information available to them, and the outcome can be immediately determined. With THAC0 it's not so straightforward. To the defender, the incoming attack roll needs to be modulated by their AC, but without knowing the THAC0 of the attacker, they can't actually say if it hits or not. Likewise to the attacker, the outgoing attack roll needs to be modulated by the defender's AC, and again they don't necessarily have that information. As a result, additional intermediate information needs to be exchanged. It ends up being two people collaborating on a distributed arithmetic problem that could just as easily be formulated as a non-distributed one by putting all the attack-relevant information on one side and all the defense-relevant information on the other side.

The only way I can see that THAC0 really makes any intuitive sense is when you look at it as a generalization of the old dice roll lookup tables with armor class on one axis and character level on the other - in that case, a player didn't necessarily even need to know their own THAC0 since it was just the AC=0 row of the lookup table and all the GM needed to know was the class and level of the player to know if their attack rolls hit, and their AC to know if attack rolls against them hit. I mean if your argument is that the GM should be the keeper of all the mechanical processes and the players shouldn't be doing anything but saying the number on their die and waiting for the GM's black box to output the result, then I guess that's one argument for a THAC0 system, but that's just not how anyone plays it anymore.

Also what potential modifiers are you talking about? Are you referring to 3.5/Pathfinder? Because in D&D 5e the only numbers you need to add to your rolls are your ability modifier and possibly proficiency modifier, neither of which change very often. Maybe like an extra d4 from Guidance or something.

Volte fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Dec 24, 2023

Nefarious 2.0
Apr 22, 2008

Offense is overrated anyway.

Volte posted:

I dunno how your GM handles it but I don't actually know the AC or attack modifiers (or would-be THAC0) of my opponents. In the modern system, one person calculates their number using exclusively information available to them and the other person compares it to their number, also calculated exclusively using information available to them, and the outcome can be immediately determined. With THAC0 it's not so straightforward. To the defender, the incoming attack roll needs to be modulated by their AC, but without knowing the THAC0 of the attacker, they can't actually say if it hits or not. Likewise to the attacker, the outgoing attack roll needs to be modulated by the defender's AC, and again they don't necessarily have that information. As a result, additional intermediate information needs to be exchanged. It ends up being two people collaborating on a distributed arithmetic problem that could just as easily be formulated as a non-distributed one by putting all the attack-relevant information on one side and all the defense-relevant information on the other side.

The only way I can see that THAC0 really makes any intuitive sense is when you look at it as a generalization of the old dice roll lookup tables with armor class on one axis and character level on the other - in that case, a player didn't necessarily even need to know their own THAC0 since it was just the AC=0 row of the lookup table and all the GM needed to know was the class and level of the player to know if their attack rolls hit, and their AC to know if attack rolls against them hit. I mean if your argument is that the GM should be the keeper of all the mechanical processes and the players shouldn't be doing anything but saying the number on their die and waiting for the GM's black box to output the result, then I guess that's one argument for a THAC0 system, but that's just not how anyone plays it anymore.

Also what potential modifiers are you talking about? Are you referring to 3.5/Pathfinder? Because in D&D 5e the only numbers you need to add to your rolls are your ability modifier and possibly proficiency modifier, neither of which change very often. Maybe like an extra d4 from Guidance or something.

happy holidays!

mycot
Oct 23, 2014

"It's okay. There are other Terminators! Just give us this one!"
Hell Gem
Most TTRPGs have some form of roll [number] to hit THAC0 is just a funny word. In my head it rhymes with taco.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


ThacN0morediscussionaboutthisshit

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009

mycot posted:

Most TTRPGs have some form of roll [number] to hit THAC0 is just a funny word. In my head it rhymes with taco.

I've always said thack-oh.

5e is the best edition for playing with humans because all that poo poo is simpler while 4e is the best edition for playing on a computer. My one complaint about bg3 is that it isn't 4e after D:OS 2 had a 4e-ish system.

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

Derpmph trial star reporter!

tater_salad posted:

ThacN0morediscussionaboutthisshit

thac0k by me

Orv
May 4, 2011
Red Wizards of THAC0

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



I legit play a lot of PC games that I would never play the tabletop versions of because I want to take advantage of modern society creating machines that can do these calculations for me.

Even something like Magic the Gathering that's designed to be played relatively easily without automation, like I have to devote a nontrivial amount of brain power to updating and remembering the board state that I never have to do when the computer automates it.

Meow Tse-tung
Oct 11, 2004

No one cat should have all that power

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I legit play a lot of PC games that I would never play the tabletop versions of because I want to take advantage of modern society creating machines that can do these calculations for me.

Most people use virtual tabletops that do the math anyway. Anyway THAC0 was fine it took like a few minutes explain or figure it out as a 12 year old. People acting like you're doing calc or something.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

THAC0 is whac0

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009

I’ve been pondering Aliens Dark Descent for a while. I don’t really like those Commandos style real time games of shepherding a little group around an rts map, but something more like a rtwp Xcom could be good especially if it leans into more rpg stuff. What’s the vibe on it?

Oscar Wild
Apr 11, 2006

It's good to be a G
This thread has AC 0 and rolled a 1

ninjoatse.cx
Apr 9, 2005

Fun Shoe
My contribution to the ttrpg -> video game discussion is that I'm officially done with traps in video games. There are arguments about their place in ttrpgs, but it's always just as boring in video games. Oh! You spotted a trap! Now you can do the fun mechanic of clicking on a thing and making it go away. Oh! There's another trap! Do the same poo poo again. Even BG3 where there were puzzles or things you could do to block them still sucked. On subsequent playthroughs they're always worse.

Let's just not have them, or have them all be the puzzle traps that are always as interesting as the puzzle you have to figure out.

ninjoatse.cx
Apr 9, 2005

Fun Shoe
Oh, the voice actor who voiced max payne in all 3 games died last week. RIP

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

ninjoatse.cx posted:

My contribution to the ttrpg -> video game discussion is that I'm officially done with traps in video games. There are arguments about their place in ttrpgs, but it's always just as boring in video games. Oh! You spotted a trap! Now you can do the fun mechanic of clicking on a thing and making it go away. Oh! There's another trap! Do the same poo poo again. Even BG3 where there were puzzles or things you could do to block them still sucked. On subsequent playthroughs they're always worse.

Let's just not have them, or have them all be the puzzle traps that are always as interesting as the puzzle you have to figure out.
Tactical CRPGs love two things:
- The clatterclatter of dice or the pingpingping of perception checks on entering a room. Nothing happens? Well. Sure, okay game
- Having a massive engine-straining setpiece combats in the intro, the end of the first act, or both, where you spend 2/3 of the fight watching NPCs fight each other

It's incredibly frustrating as someone who likes these games! Just stop it!

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Counterpoint: Traps own. :colbert:

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009

ninjoatse.cx posted:

My contribution to the ttrpg -> video game discussion is that I'm officially done with traps in video games. There are arguments about their place in ttrpgs, but it's always just as boring in video games. Oh! You spotted a trap! Now you can do the fun mechanic of clicking on a thing and making it go away. Oh! There's another trap! Do the same poo poo again. Even BG3 where there were puzzles or things you could do to block them still sucked. On subsequent playthroughs they're always worse.

Let's just not have them, or have them all be the puzzle traps that are always as interesting as the puzzle you have to figure out.

in bg3 they were at least puzzles with a variety of solutions both intended and not. That poo poo in infinity engine, Owlcat games, nwn, etc where it's just a red blob you need to click is pointless and aggravating if you forget or miss click a dude into the blob. I always mod disable them on replays if it's possible.

Floodkiller
May 31, 2011

Harminoff posted:

Is there, and if so, what's the best jackbox pack right now?

Party Pack 3 is still probably the best pack overall if you are asking for one where every game in it is good. Quiplash is classic fun improv, Guesspionage and Trivia Murder Party are both great trivia games for trivia heads and casual players (in different ways), and Tee KO is the best drawing game that Jackbox has made in my opinion. Fakin' It can't be played well online, but if you are playing in person it is still a pretty decent deception game as well.

The others might have 1-2 games that are on par or better (or fit your family/friend group better), but the rest will be mediocre to bad. For example, Party Pack 6 has Trivia Murder Party 2 which is a better update of Trivia Murder Party 1 and Push The Button is an online working version of Fakin' It that also has more going on and is very fun, but Joke Boat sucks, Role Models is meh, and Dictionarium isn't really a game.

Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Dec 24, 2023

claw game handjob
Mar 27, 2007

pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Det_no posted:

Since people are buying a bunch of stuff, it is a good time for a reminder you can use Steamdb's Free Packages script to quickly get all the free DLC available for your games.

https://steamdb.info/freepackages/

:siren: Make sure to press the link where it says "If you want to only view content for your owned games, click here to only show these." :siren:

You can use that page to get a lot of free goodies. Most of the time they are the usual things like a free soundtrack or artbook but sometimes you also get "hidden", promotional DLC not displayed on the store page. I just got one of the five Kickstarter exclusive packs available for My Time At Portia, for example.

Holy poo poo do not activate this without that filter and leave for the holidays, I'm now hundreds of truly dire titles deeper in my library and it'll run for at least another day before I can kill it, even with the rate limiter.

I am now the "proud" owner of such masterworks as Devil May Cry: Molasses Edition, We have Spyro at home, IKEA Simulator 2023 and at least a dozen Backrooms Simulators.

FishMcCool
Apr 9, 2021

lolcats are still funny
Fallen Rib

claw game handjob posted:

Holy poo poo do not activate this without that filter and leave for the holidays, I'm now hundreds of truly dire titles deeper in my library and it'll run for at least another day before I can kill it, even with the rate limiter.

I am now the "proud" owner of such masterworks as Devil May Cry: Molasses Edition, We have Spyro at home, IKEA Simulator 2023 and at least a dozen Backrooms Simulators.

:lmao: I'm going to recommend that site to all my friends now.

Orv
May 4, 2011
Orbitally hoisted by your own petard

boofhead
Feb 18, 2021

Hwurmp posted:

THAC0 is whac0

dorks go whac0, dorks go whac0 for THAC0s

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004


:dukedog:
Offensive Clock
Abiotic Factor is really promising, it's a hybrid of immersive sim and open world crafting - I hope they continue balancing it with both single player and multiplayer in mind, though

ymgve fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Dec 24, 2023

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



FastestGunAlive posted:

Excuse me but saying auto pause for detect traps dates back to DOS is og baldurs gate erasure

Are you talking about my review? I mentioned Pillars of Eternity, not D:OS, but yeah, in retrospect I should have specified that Pillars was the first CRPG to have customizable auto-pausing with so many different options.

This is the part where someone goes 'actually...' so I'm sure they weren't even the first ones to do that, but it's still something I remember fondly about Pillars, and I wish it had been adopted by BG3 (which doesn't have pausing at all for some reason, I guess because it's turn-based rather than RTwP, but so is Solasta and you can pause outside of combat in that game)

tildes
Nov 16, 2018
You’re probs aware but you can semi pause by switching to turn based mode manually. Would be nice to have those triggers tho for sure.

The Mighty Moltres
Dec 21, 2012

Come! We must fly!


Kaddish posted:

This is a fun survivorslike where you have to play some inventory tetris between rounds. A little annoying to manage the inventory with controller though.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2342950/God_Of_Weapons/

This game is dope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQxoT6cFNMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozRJPYgI1ro

edit:
THAC0
To Hit Armor Class 0
Whatever could it mean?

The Mighty Moltres fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Dec 24, 2023

FastestGunAlive
Apr 7, 2010

Dancing palm tree.

Phlegmish posted:

Are you talking about my review? I mentioned Pillars of Eternity, not D:OS, but yeah, in retrospect I should have specified that Pillars was the first CRPG to have customizable auto-pausing with so many different options.

This is the part where someone goes 'actually...' so I'm sure they weren't even the first ones to do that, but it's still something I remember fondly about Pillars, and I wish it had been adopted by BG3 (which doesn't have pausing at all for some reason, I guess because it's turn-based rather than RTwP, but so is Solasta and you can pause outside of combat in that game)

Yes, I was just jesting in good humor with you though (it was a great write up). Baldurs Gate 2 has fairly robust auto pause options as well: detect trap, hostile spotted, spell cast, etc.

FuzzySlippers posted:

I’ve been pondering Aliens Dark Descent for a while. I don’t really like those Commandos style real time games of shepherding a little group around an rts map, but something more like a rtwp Xcom could be good especially if it leans into more rpg stuff. What’s the vibe on it?

I enjoyed it although I am a sucker for anything Alien. I’d rate it a solid AA game. The RPG aspect is not that robust, you can assign classes to your marines and they get skills and perks upon leveling, there’s not many to pick from. I’d say it straddles the line between commandos and xcom: maintaining stealth is important, especially early game when you’re weak with limited resources, because every time you get into combat the threat level raises (more enemies, special enemies). But losing stealth isn’t game over, just means you have to fight off a horde or mini boss. There’s also simple base management between missions: research tech, assign marines to the medbay, use raw resources to create items (sentry guns, med kits, etc).

I really enjoyed the early game, it was pretty tense and challenging. Mid game you start to feel pretty strong and understand the systems then it gets difficult again near the end. I also like the map persistence; you’ll end up visiting most levels multiple times and the threat level and any doors you welded or sentry guns you set up remain. You’ve got to balance pushing as far as you can on objectives, so you can complete them before the threat gets too tough, with keeping your squad alive and wounds low so they can recoup faster between missions.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Aliens has a definite 'we have the budget to make the game and then do *one* balance pass, hope everything works out' vibe. There's also oddness like the mission structure being very narrative driven and linear, while there's enormous randomness in the RPG mechanics that are almost trying to fit in with a roguelike mode.

I hope they get to make a game 2, maybe not even sticking with the aliens IP.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

tater_salad posted:

ThacN0morediscussionaboutthisshit

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010

loves Fat Philippe
I got myself a monitor that does 144hz, gsync etc (Gigabyte G27). Do I need to set it up for every game or do games detect when they can do more frames or whatever? I'm old.

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011



Chas McGill posted:

I got myself a monitor that does 144hz, gsync etc (Gigabyte G27). Do I need to set it up for every game or do games detect when they can do more frames or whatever? I'm old.

If you're using Windows 11, check your Advanced display settings. Your refresh rate should be set to 144 Hz (apologies for the screenshot being in Dutch):



After that, you should be golden. You can then turn on Steam's built-in unintrusive FPS counter to see if a particular game (console ports especially will sometimes do this) is capping your FPS by default, but I find that that's rarely an issue, and if it does happen you can usually change it in the graphics settings.

Volte
Oct 4, 2004

woosh woosh

Chas McGill posted:

I got myself a monitor that does 144hz, gsync etc (Gigabyte G27). Do I need to set it up for every game or do games detect when they can do more frames or whatever? I'm old.
Just make sure that your monitor is set to 144hz in the Advanced Display settings in Windows and most games should be able to figure it out. You can enable the FPS display in the Steam Overlay if you want to be sure.

edit: :argh:

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

Chas McGill posted:

I got myself a monitor that does 144hz, gsync etc (Gigabyte G27). Do I need to set it up for every game or do games detect when they can do more frames or whatever? I'm old.

I set my config as per this article to get g-sync working. Specifically after enabling g-sync in the nvidia control panel you want to force V-Sync ON as a global setting, then in whatever game you're playing always turn V-Sync OFF and set the max framerate to 144.

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The Mighty Moltres
Dec 21, 2012

Come! We must fly!



THAC0kay

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