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Yeah Kerrigan is the downfall of HotS and why it's probably the weakest overall campaign gameplay wise despite having some of the coolest missions in RTS history. She's so insanely overpowered in every conceivable way that you don't really have to engage with any of the more interesting Zerg units, they're just better off as meat shields for Kerrigan to kill everything.
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Dec 22, 2023 20:41
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So in Zerg mission 2, you control only Terrans. They put the orb into not just main plot but tutorial plot. 
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Dec 22, 2023 20:44
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I don't like hero units so I always leave them ignored in my base. I only use them if the mission requires me to.
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Dec 22, 2023 20:48
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We will need to go to bunch more missions before we get to the second reason why I think this is the worst campaign, but I am looking forward to seeing how many people disagree with me 
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Dec 22, 2023 20:59
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Xarn posted:We will need to go to bunch more missions before we get to the second reason why I think this is the worst campaign, but I am looking forward to seeing how many people disagree with me It does take a while to get to the essence of why this campaign's weakest (besides Kerrigan stomping everything, that is), though it does have some neat gameplay gimmicks
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Dec 22, 2023 23:02
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Well, we have seen the heart of why it gets off on a bad foot writing-wise - Kerrigan, queen bitch of the universe, is being led around by her connections to the men in her life. She's in love with Raynor and wants to kill Mengsk, and those are going to be her main motivations going forward. It's not the whole of what's wrong with the campaign but it's certainly worth noting.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:12
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Also Kerrigan is not actually queen bitch of the universe, the Queen of Blades was a third party for whose actions Kerrigan holds no responsibility, something something corruption? That seems like the laziest fuckin resolution.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:25
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At least the ghost thing is consistent in being utterly useless outfits. In a moment of hilarity, the spandex covers more than the SC1 suits did.   They got like a tabard.. bandolier.. thing... jeans and boots. And nothing over their arms.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:51
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The Ghosts gotta be able to flex to intimidate enemies of the government.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:22
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NewMars posted:At least the ghost thing is consistent in being utterly useless outfits. In a moment of hilarity, the spandex covers more than the SC1 suits did. what an impossibly stupid rifle. what an impossibly stupid outfit. god the shirt made of pouches the pouches on the boots
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Dec 23, 2023 00:30
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Kith posted:what an impossibly stupid rifle. You can definitely tell which decade/era of comics Samwise learned to draw during
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Dec 23, 2023 00:38
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NewMars posted:At least the ghost thing is consistent in being utterly useless outfits. In a moment of hilarity, the spandex covers more than the SC1 suits did.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:44
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Genuinely, I was enjoying Heart to this point. There's this idea being presented right now that it's dangerous for Kerrigan to control the Zerg, with the implication being that she went a bit mad in mission 1 because of the influence they appear to have on her. This is then offset really well by Jim and Kerrigan's dialogue in this feeling natural and kindof getting over the idea that they're resuming where they left off. So it's a bit like, things are as they should be, but there's just a little bit off that's going to send things spiraling. Unfortunately Blizzard separate the two characters at this point and the campaign is far, far weaker as a result. (We'll get to all the idiocy later)
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Dec 23, 2023 00:50
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The idea of the Zerg influencing Kerrigan is an interesting one. I sure do wish they had used it! Like, at all!
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Dec 23, 2023 00:51
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the shot of the AA-guns literally lighting up the battlecruisers in the cutscene was pretty cool, at least
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Dec 23, 2023 02:51
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Isn't the Yamato Cannon 260 damage? Kerrigan's force choke is stronger than a Yamato blast.
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Dec 23, 2023 08:10
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Jim and Kerrigan have great chemistry in this mission, and it really does feel like they're right back to where they left off in the first half of the SC1 Terran Campaign. Its also cool to see Kerrigan as a Ghost again, but with these incredible psychic powers. Her first big thing when she was made Zerg was a raid on a Science Vessel to undo all her mental conditioning and whatnot keeping her abilities in check, and now all these years later we get something akin to seeing what she could have been if the system she was born into wasn't dead-set on controlling her. I think we can also praise calling in Nova as the immediate antagonist here. She's an obvious foil for this re-humanized Kerrigan, a fellow lady Ghost but a loyalist who believes in the Dominion. At the same time, if you follow her path in WoL you know that she's not completely indoctrinated. She's capable of making her own decisions and having her own agenda. If she thinks it serves the greater good of the Dominion, she'll go against what Mengsk would want, but in some ways that makes her more dangerous than a mindless sycophant would be. A few more missions of playing cat and mouse with Jim and Ghost Kerrigan (and some Zerg that she's being forced to use because they're both cut off from backup) working together against Nova would have been a HUGE boon to this campaign.
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Dec 23, 2023 08:50
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That would have been a lot better than what we got.
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Dec 23, 2023 11:31
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Wings Of Liberty 2 would've been better than what we got. They could've re-released the same drat missions with only slightly different dialogue and it would've been better.
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Dec 23, 2023 11:50
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In that Nova scene, she has red lights on her suit, which is a defining Spectre trait like Ghosts have blue lights. Does the suit colour change if you sided with her in WoL?
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Dec 23, 2023 20:37
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JackSplater posted:In that Nova scene, she has red lights on her suit, which is a defining Spectre trait like Ghosts have blue lights. Does the suit colour change if you sided with her in WoL? No, that's just the Unit model's team color (which is Red for Dominion). In cutscenes, she's Ghost colored. She appears Blue in her WoL mission because that's the player's color, and it later gets hardcoded into her model for her Special Hero Unit gameplay when the game is more focused on her.
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Dec 24, 2023 03:07
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I like a lot of their banter here. It's fun and charming. Saving further commentary as spoilers
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Dec 24, 2023 07:29
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I never understood why Kerrigan couldn't just fly the dropship across the broken bridge and pick Raynor up.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:23
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I didn't want to say it when someone mentioned the "riding a bike" thing earlier as a different piece of dialogue for the first mission, but I always roll my eyes when I hear it used in the context in this mission. It's definitely a me thing
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Dec 24, 2023 18:16
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Nah, I rolled my eyes pretty drat hard at that too. It's almost appropriate, since Raynor literally rode a bike (his Vulture) in the previous game, but now is not the time to sit around for a kiss, Kerrigan. Maybe if you'd moved your rear end, you might not have had to leave the dude behind with friggin' Nova. Speaking of Nova, boy do I not like her line if you sided with Tosh. It seems custom designed to make players go back and see what changes if you side with Nova and then the answer is jack squat.  I guess it shows how self-centered she is, but that is far too much work for that little information. Even just a light-hearted "or maybe not" added on would immediately show it, and also show that's she's self-aware to boot. Instead her tone is flat-out vindictive and makes you wonder if it was really that important to her.
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Dec 24, 2023 19:19
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Kerrigan should have just called the eagles.
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Dec 24, 2023 20:55
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Honestly I can sort of believe that an intelligence officer has a warped enough brain to be personally offended that we didn't help her black bag our friend.
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Dec 25, 2023 01:48
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to be fair, ghosts are super-duper brainwashed. like actually indoctrinated as hell and also have their memories wiped on the regular. nova is not exactly healthy
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Dec 25, 2023 03:44
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Kith posted:to be fair, ghosts are super-duper brainwashed. like actually indoctrinated as hell and also have their memories wiped on the regular. nova is not exactly healthy They're also not what I'd call "intelligence officers." More like a bunch of psionic, drugged up Chris Kyles. Nothing in Nova Covert Ops made me think "yeah these super spies are actually good spies." But we'll get to that... Summer 2024? We've got two dodgy games and an epilogue to crawl through before getting into what Starcraft Ghost might have been.
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Dec 26, 2023 15:26
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Umoja 3: Rendezvous Cinematic: Choices + Video: Rendezvous   Kerrigan's made it to the others.    And we cut straight to the bridge of the Hyperion.      Now, my guess is Blizzard's intent here is to show that Kerrigan is SO IN WUV with Jim that it blinds her to all else.  But I have a interpretation of this scene:  Sarah Kerrigan is a horrible, horrible person.   Case in point: Her reaction here is to force choke Valerian. No demands for an explanation, no trying to convince him to head back, she immediately jumps to murder.  Sure, the man was an idiot who wanted to toy with the zerg a bit, but he still set up the whole plan to save Kerrigan to begin with.  Without Valerian wanting to one up his dad, Kerrigan would still be the Queen of Blades. Hell, he's probably the reason they could hide on Umoja in the first place, his maternal grandfather is an Umojan bigshot!  But that's not enough for her.  Because Valerian isn't marching all that's left of the Raiders back down there on a suicide mission, Kerrigan immediately gets violent.  What makes it worse is that Kerrigan will never see any consequences for this.  After all, she's the star of the PrOpHeCy! She is effectively above consequences because she has a loving universe to save!      And now Valerian is getting psionically strangled by the woman he wanted to 'reform.' Hell of a job, Junior.     Okay, that shot from before shows that the Raiders have like... 7 Battlecruisers left? I'm counting at least 15 Dominion BCs. There's no possible way Valerian could have saved Jim.  And Kerrigan isn't letting some basic bitch poo poo like explosions stop her from getting her murder on.      Kerrigan, realizing that she doesn't have enough time to choke everyone for abandoning Jim, decides to let Valerian live.  Doesn't stop her from threatening Matt, however.            And Matt makes the very wise choice to not stop the very angry psychic from going on her own.         Yeah, there must be an old hive here, I'm more worried about the Dominion. Considering my main offensive units are Zerglings, this base will be a tough nut to crack.     Set course for the zerg hive cluster. I need an army.For the sake of her TWUE WUV, Kerrigan will happily control the Swarm.    All the zerg here stop and face Kerrigan when she approaches.  Naktul is our introduction to Broodmothers, the Queen of Blades' replacement for Cerebrates in the time between games. They can't control as much as a Cerebrate, nor can they be revive when killed, but they're larger in number and can actually do things themselves rather than sit around as a flesh blob.    Meanwhile, I'm going to prepare this hive for combat. The Dominion would have tracked my ship and they'll be looking for me.  And with that, our first actual mission begins! I have to hold out for 15 minutes against the Dominion until Naktul can get the rest of her brood to me. It's a funny reversal from Wings of Liberty. A neat touch is that since Kerrigan has basically broken off from the rest of the terrans at this point, the HUD finally flips from terran steel to zerg flesh.  Kerrigan we had a tutorial on Spawning Pools two missions ago we do not need a refresher. Anyways, after an entire campaign with my lovely, lovely Bunkers, I'm now forced to use the Crawlers.  We saw it once as a setpiece during the first Prophecy mission, but Crawlers can uproot themselves and move to a new location. The two main catches is that a Crawler can't attack while mobile, and they get a massive speed boost when on creep which drops down to a measly 1 movement speed (Marines have 2.25, for comparison) if they ever step off. They'll take constant damage and bleed out if they aren't rooted on creep, but you can't root them off creep so it'll rarely come up.  While stuff is building at base, I send Kerrigan out on her own. Even though she's not a zerg she still gets the movement bonus from creep, plus she now has the signature zerg regen. Also, notice how there's no 'Kerrigan must survive' objective. That's because Kerrigan is practically immortal now. If she dies, she just gets kicked back to my intitial Hatchery (or oldest Hatchery on the map, if that one dies) and respawns for free after a minute. Free. Not so much as a single mineral to bring her back again and again. Kerrigan is so loving broken, man.  The Dominion won't sit and wait, of course.   All these infested buildings are temporary defenses for the first few attacks. They'll buy time for me as these Marines focus on destroying them, plus they'll spawn Broodlings on death to thin them out.  The Swarm Queen is a bit of an odd duck for the zerg, production-wise. They need a Spawning Pool to make, but are directly made at a Hatchery instead of needing to be morphed from a Larva. While this means I can throw Queens into any army without getting in the way of any other units, it also means they're limited to being made one at a time and I can't just make a horde of them at once.  The bonus here is to save some of Naktul's units.  A nice thing with Kinetic Blast is that it instantly pushes a Bunker into burning, letting me fall back and come again later after it burns down.  Like right now, where I have to pull Kerrigan back to deal with this attack.  As a defense mission, Randezvous is far more interesting than Zero Hour. The weaker zerg static defense means I can't just turtle up and snooze until the timer runs out and Kerrigan, while powerful, has long stretches of time where she can't do much once she runs out of energy.  Anyways, Swarm Queens. They're an early game source of anti-air and some hefty support skills. Not to be confused with a plain old Queen, which is the skirmish version of this unit that has Inject Larvae. The Queen is pretty much solely a base support unit, being slow as molasses off creep and a heal that can only be used on targets that are on creep. The Swarm Queen has a far cheaper heal that can be used anywhere and a higher base move speed. This lets me splash Swarm Queens into an army without much fuss, giving me a way to actually hit flying units before I unlock Hydralisks.  They also have Spawn Creep Tumor, which is the main way of spreading more of that delicious purple goo instead of having to spend Drones to morph into Creep Colonies like in SC1.  Each Creep Tumor also comes with its own Spawn Creep Tumor.  Which can spawn a new Tumor anywhere in a good sized range from it, provided the new spot already has creep.  The new Tumor needs a few seconds to spawn in, and while a finished Tumor counts as invisible and needs a Detector to spot and destroy, spawning Tumors very specifically don't. No sneaking creep right next to a Bunker, as they'll just pop it instantly.  Note how the color died out on the first Tumor once the second spawned. Each Tumor gets just one charge of Spawn Creep Tumor, and can't do any more after that. Should an attack wave have detection and destroys the last Tumor in a chain, it effectively kills all further creep growth down that line unless you get a Swarm Queen out to spawn a new Tumor herself. If the new Tumor gets sniped while spawning, however, it refunds the charge and lets you try again later. That way you aren't punished if you place one just before the fog of war and have it get blasted by an enemy you had no way of knowing was there.  The Dominion throws in some air waves to keep me on my toes. Granted, they're just Wraiths, but still.  Naktul is kind enough to mark the second cave while I finally clear out the first.  Whoops, supply blocked myself.  Here's where this mission gets really nasty:  Hellions. While they sucked rear end against Marines back in Wings, since they kept their distance and only could get one or two at a time, here they'll get to roast my Zerglings and there's not much I can do about it.  Oh I'm sorry, did I say Hellon? Because I actually meant Hellbats, the Hellion/Firebat fusion terrans got in Heart. Hellion mode is faster, but deals less damage in a long thin line, while Firebat mode has more health and deals higher damage in a wide cone.  However, they have the same weakness Siege Tanks do and take time to transform.  Doesn't stop them from killing multiple Zerglings and crippling the survivors before dying.  And I immediately start pushing to the next cave.  Sure, I lost the rest of my Zerglings and am forced to pull back, but now both Bunkers are burning.  We're also back to being stuck with +1 upgrades until we do more missions.  There we go.   We have the same issue Zero Hour had where I don't have to do this, since campaign progression hasn't kicked in yet, but why not?  Hellions, Firebats, and Siege Tanks. The Dominion is not loving around here.  And look at the size of these attack waves!  Thanks for the heads up, Naktul.  Naktul points out the last cave, but there's also another attack wave coming from the northwest.  This is why creep coverage is so important. Being able to see attack waves long before they reach me gives me time to react and pull back before they reach my base. Now watch me forget about this in a few minutes.  Since I'm already on this side I might as well push this way.  This is where a lot of those Hellbats are being made, so knocking out these Factories will make things easier for me.  Oh and they also have loving Thors popping out of the Factories. This is the first real mission of the campaign!  I have to pull back to stop another attack wave, but two out of three isn't bad.   I can't actually reach the Pulse Laser right now, so no finishing the mission early, but this whole defense section does instantly end if I take out every terran building I can reach. I will not be doing that today.  But I can get the last cave. Also don't ask how those Overlords ended up in my control group.  I barely manage to pull it off.  I try to clear out the enemy with what I have left, but it just isn't enough.   Doesn't help that I completely missed an incoming attack wave.   And time runs out as I deal with one final attack wave.    Naktul to the rescue!     The reinforcements from these three Nydus Worms shot my supply count from 58 to 121, and there's more yet to come!  And the game finally deigns to give me back the button I've been using for all of Wings. How loving considerate of them.  The rest of this mission is a slaughter. Naktul sends so many units to me that I can simply F2 and A-move at the Cannon and win.  My gripes with the story aside, Heart has a very good ending to the tutorial missions. Going from desperately holding on as the Dominion throws every (ground) unit at you to marching right up to their doorstep as an unstoppable tide is extremely cool.  Like they have two Bunkers backed by Siege Tanks, this should be a pain in the rear end to crack!  It doesn't even slow me down.  Naktul herself even joins in! Although she's just a boosted Swarm Queen.   Of course, there's also the massive dramatic irony in knowing that Kerrigan's doing all of this for nothing.      Anyone that stands between her and Jim will suffer a painful death. Or infestation. Maybe one, then the other.   Thankfully Kerrigan has a moment of clarity and realizes that she's starting to go off the deep end.  I wonder how long that'll last.     Rendezvous - Complete the “Rendezvous” mission in the Heart of the Swarm campaign. First Strike - Destroy 15 enemy structures before Naktul’s forces arrive in the “Rendezvous” mission. Zerg Saves The Queen - Rescue all trapped Swarm Queens before Naktul’s forces arrive in the “Rendezvous” mission on Normal difficulty. Premature Evacuation - Destroy all Dominion Structures in the “Rendezvous” mission before Naktul’s brood arrives on Hard difficulty. Rolling Out the Carpet - Build 50 Creep Tumors in the "Rendezvous" mission on Normal difficulty. BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Dec 30, 2023 05:27
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I like how the instant the fleet gets attacked, Matt just pivots right back to doing his job and coordinating the fleet defense even though the ex-Queen of Blades is still force choking the crown prince right there on the bridge. Truly the consummate professional.
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Dec 30, 2023 06:30
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I like how Matt attempts to get the Dominion forces to stand down by warning them “hey we have your literal Crown Prince aboard our ship are you absolutely sure you want to shoot us”, and then Valerian says “yeah no Mengsk doesn’t give a poo poo as long as Kerrigan is dead” Also Kerrigan is starting to make a good argument for Mengsk’s “kill Kerrigan at all costs” plan to be not entirely unreasonable.
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Dec 30, 2023 06:39
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BisbyWorl posted:Premature Evacuation - Destroy all Dominion Structures in the “Rendezvous” mission before Naktul’s brood arrives on Hard difficulty.[/b] This poo poo was SO hard on Brutal. Had to master practically every aspect, know when every attack wave was coming, where to spend money, how to micro, etc.
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Dec 30, 2023 06:44
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I never played HOTS, that whole first mission had me thinking "actually, maybe kerrigan is just a piece of poo poo?" so very cathartic to read that
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Dec 30, 2023 06:54
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The Chad Jihad posted:I never played HOTS, that whole first mission had me thinking "actually, maybe kerrigan is just a piece of poo poo?" so very cathartic to read that ohhhh no, rest assured there is plenty of crapulation to go around
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Dec 30, 2023 07:30
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The one thing I am willing to give Kerrigan/Blizzard here: Sure, she's a POS for reaching for the murder button first, but I'm glad she's pissed. Not just because it's Jim, but because all this started for her when she was abandoned by Mengsk pulling his forces out and leaving her behind to die, and now Mengsk's son is pulling his forces out and leaving Raynor behind to die. The symmetry is nice.
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Dec 30, 2023 08:23
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Shame Naktul is only relevant here. The line read of her BROOOOOODS had me unexpectedly laughing the first time. Shame that the story is still on the crappy 'twoo wuv' note. My friend made me realize what weirds me out about it is that it's blizzard's patronizing idea of a relationship. Jim's condescending attitude towards the most powerful human in the setting did feel off, even if it wasn't directly disrespectful.
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Dec 30, 2023 08:32
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Honestly, I don't think it's supposed to be a TROO WUV narrative, just a demonstration that Kerrigan is hosed up. Her brain has been cooked and reheated and reconfigured and reorganized more times than we can count between Ghost Conditioning, Infestation, De-Conditioning, Whatever Getting Killed And Respawning Does To Her, Artifact Cleansing, and backwash from controlling the Zerg that we saw at the end of this mission. I think it's better to read Kerrigan's behavior as being the result of an enormous amount of unimaginable trauma, plus the habits she's developed over 5+ years of being the Queen of Blades where billions of lives were under her direct control and she got whatever she wanted (and often killed whoever she wanted) without question or hesitation. Which is a long-form way of saying that Kerrigan sucks SUPER bad, and the story is going to go to great lengths to show just how bad she sucks, but her motivations for being that way make sense when you consider the greater context. She's an interesting parallel to Warcraft's Illidan - neither of them make good decisions, but that's because they're both broken people with long histories of violence. The reason I'm willing to not assign the Stupidest Possible Explanation to the story despite it being Blizzard Writing is because the original draft of Wings of Liberty tried to have this level of nuance with Raynor's alcoholism: there WAS a genuine attempt to tell a more realistic story using the setting and characters, even if it was ultimately sacrificed in favor of a montage of cliches, and I think HOTS's Kerrigan narrative was trying to push for that angle a little bit more. Kith fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 22, 2024 |
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Dec 30, 2023 09:14
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Frankly I'm starting to get a read between the two stories of people yearning for times past (or outright stuck in them) to a destructive degree. Combined with the time between SC1 and SC2, it feels like an almost-subtle push to put SC1 behind and have players focus on SC2. Hell, they even made it fewer years in-game than in real life. And I have to admit, I'm kinda feeling it. I feel like replaying WoL over and over more than going back to SC1 (though part of that is just the simple annoyance that is Zerg 8). The quality of life changes are just...good. Micro-ing workers is boring. The 12 unit control groups make swarms of zerglings annoying, and as we saw at the end of this mission, they have great capacity to be cathartic instead. That 140+ swarm in the final minutes wouldn't have been nearly so controllable with even all 10 control groups in SC1 limiting you to 120 (plus manual grabbing). The permanent upgrade progression in each campaign is something I love, though obviously I can see others hating it. There's a lot of good things. Shame the story got chopped down to not be one of them.
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Dec 30, 2023 13:20
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 05:56 |
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Third mission and still stuck with zerglings as the main unit. Personally I really hate the hellbat. The viking is stupid but it at least sort of works. The hellbat does not. A fast car magically transforming into freaking infantry? No.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:13
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