|
Decided to follow up Godzilla Heisei with Gamera, just to mix things up in the thread. Like Godzilla's Heisei era, I knew it from hype more than from experience. And, unlike Heisei, it wasn't some strange abstract, but a concrete reputation. These were supposed to be three of the best kaiju movie ever. I just wish I hadn't gone in with that reputation in mind. As a kaiju film, it's not bad. The plot moves at a decent clip, the fights are fun enough, and there are some creative ideas. But the human plot is neither grounded and compelling like Minus One nor absurd bullshit like Ghidora. Worse, it's not particularly relevant to the resolution. Yes, yes, the girl and her dad believing in Gamera really hard lets him win, but that's pretty thin gruel with how vague the psychic connection is, while the rest of the human efforts don't really impact the final monster fight, despite their screentime. Instead, we get an extended plotline where the environmental minister wants to protect the Gyaos because they're an endangered species (...fine) and kill Gamera (who is even more unusual as an endangered species, and who hasn't eaten anyone). If I'd gone in expecting Showa Gamera, I think I'd have been pleasantly surprised at a more serious plot, decent fights (even if the CG didn't age well at all), and perfectly tolerable humans. But with the reputation it had, things like the clunky expository dialog, the odd plot hops, and the thin characters all hurt more than they would have otherwise. Just a reminder how much expectations can matter, I suppose. Expected Ghidora to be bad, and I had fun. Expected Gamera to be better, and I was just disappointed.
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 12:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
They're a little overrated online but the model work and suit effects are amazing. But yea I didn't really connect with the plot either
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 12:41
|
|
|
The Heisei Gamera movies are kinda graded on a generous curve to some extent, but I think you could make the case that they were pretty easily the best kaiju media of the 1990s, which isn't nothing. Stuff like the Kiryu movies, Shin, and now Minus One (and even, to some extent, the 2006 one-off Gamera the Brave) have since eclipsed them in my mind, but as Mantis points out, they're one of the last hurrahs for practical kaiju FX, something that Heisei Gamera does way better than the boring, unambitious 90s Godzilla movies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 14:19
|
|
|
Sitting in the theater for a matinee showing of Godzilla -1; the last possible one I could make it to (it stops playing here tomorrow). Better late than never!
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 15:51
|
|
|
GATOS Y VATOS posted:What's the going price these days for one? $300 or so? if someone thinks they're getting my Godzilla vs. Biollante blu ray just by offering me $300 they're very mistaken
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 16:51
|
|
|
Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 17:58
|
|
|
Final wars owns but it's also just fan service.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 18:00
|
|
|
I like some fan service. Once he nuked Zilla it became pretty clear that we were just doing kaiju pro wrestling and Toho was in its attitude era. Needed Gigan doing a suck it and Ghidorah getting a stone cold stunner on all his necks simultaneously
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 18:09
|
|
|
weekly font posted:I like some fan service. Once he nuked Zilla it became pretty clear that we were just doing kaiju pro wrestling and Toho was in its attitude era. Needed Gigan doing a suck it and Ghidorah getting a stone cold stunner on all his necks simultaneously Amusingly we get some amazing heel tag stuff from Gigan in On Monster Island and Vs. Megalon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 18:14
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn. Least favorite Godzilla movie probably.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 18:31
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn. Extremely good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 18:56
|
|
|
Final Wars spent way too long on the human stuff instead of giving more time to the giant monster slugfest, but what we got of that was pretty good Also watched G'54 for the first time in a while, and it holds up surprisingly well for something made 70 years ago Was amused by how Godzilla was initially heralded by heavy drums for its footsteps, but once it hit land in the latter half of the film, it was surprisingly quiet as it laid waste to the land
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
I realized that I could get Godzilla 54, Mothra vs. Godzilla, and Godzilla vs. Hedorah on 4k UHD from Amazon Japan for $40 each shipped so that's my Christmas present to myself. No subtitles but I'm good with that. Looking forward to getting them in a couple weeks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 19:35
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn. I used to passionately despise it along with stuff like G'98 and All Monsters Attack, but my feelings towards all of them has softened considerably over the past 10 or 15 years. I don't think I'd deliberately sit down and watch any of those, mind, but Final Wars in particular makes for some fun groupwatch riffing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 19:58
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn. It's be better as just a weird sentai-style humans vs space aliens film. The Godzilla parts are extraneous and not that great. I don't necessarily dislike it but it presents a good argument for retiring the series for twelve years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 19:59
|
|
|
I’d like Final Wars a lot more if the ratio between kaiju fights/human fights was reversed. Most of the kaiju battles were way too short.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 20:09
|
|
|
Is Shin Godzilla currently streaming anywhere?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 20:11
|
|
|
final wars is my big dumb room temperature IQ adult son and I love him
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 20:13
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:Is Shin Godzilla currently streaming anywhere? I think someone mentioned earlier that it’s on Crunchyroll of all places.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
Crunchyroll, Amazon, (HBO) Max, Apple TV, Google Play Movies, YouTube and Vudu are all streaming it
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 20:32
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn. It's real bad if you're sober and disappointingly bad if you're not. It's a silly, mean-spirited film that actively hates its audience. It's Godzilla as Family Guy. Still not as boring as Spacegodzilla or the anime trilogy. The Gigan design rules and I want more of Monster X as the Ghidorah version of Minya.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
I am currently watching Final Wars and it rules…. This is probably the first time I’ve watched it since 2007, I was backpacking in Australia and only had a few dvds to watch on my laptop this was one of them….
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
weekly font posted:Whats the thread consensus on Final War? The kaiju stuff is good for a spiritual remake of Destroy All Monsters but I really hate how hyperactive it gets (i mean what did you expect from the director of Versus) but I really love any time Don Frye is on screen. Nothing’s fine I’m torn. I enjoy Kazuki Kitamura being a huge ham, so it gets a passing grade.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
watching final wars projected on the garage at a party years ago was a hell of a lot of fun except for the extremely racist scene with the cops in America which was funny in a different way, or maybe the same way. who knows
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2023 23:53
|
|
|
Gambit from the X-Men posted:watching final wars projected on the garage at a party years ago was a hell of a lot of fun except for the extremely racist scene with the cops in America which was funny in a different way, or maybe the same way. who knows The only way that scene could have been improved would be if the subtitle said it took place in Des Moines, with no other changes. Like that's just what any given square mile of America is like
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:03
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:The only way that scene could have been improved would be if the subtitle said it took place in Des Moines, with no other changes. Like that's just what any given square mile of America is like lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 00:09
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:Final Wars spent way too long on the human stuff instead of giving more time to the giant monster slugfest, but what we got of that was pretty good I also do not count Captain Gordon as part of the human stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:13
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla is definitely a mixed bag, but I'd easily rank it above Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla II just for all that great Fukuoka content. Gripweed posted:I can't get over that paying off by the guy being able to get out of Garuda because he brought his flying Pteranodon bike to work. They didn't need to do that, there could have just been a ladder on the robot! Or they could have even just shown him opening a hatch and then cut to him on the ground, the specific means he used to get out of the robot didn't need to be shown, and definitely didn't need to be established by a whole subplot! When something in a movie seems totally extraneous to the plot, that's where things are most heavily thematic. So you've got the earlier scene where Kazuma (the nerd) is showing off his pteranodon-hoverbike to Azusa, and they fly around her tiny cheapass Jurassic Park replica of prehistoric times. They're having fun, but the context is that Godzilla Junior's being raised as a test subject and potential weapon. Like, that's why the UN are paying for all this stuff. Plus, Junior's inevitably going to grow too huge for this cage. Something's gotta give. So there's a sort of obvious link between the pteranodon-hoverbike as a vehicle for Junior's misguided adoptive parents, and the literal giant pteranodon who mistakenly(?) kidnaps Junior later in the film. Things then blur together weirdly, because you have Super Mecha-Godzilla (no relation) appearing as a fusion of a robotic Godzilla and what's effectively another - now gigantic - mechanical pteranodon. This amalgam is largely indifferent to what Junior's going through, and ends up righteously destroyed at the end. So, there's some stuff going on, from scene to scene, with relations of scale and power dynamics. The hoverbike is baby-sized relative to Rodan, but equal in relation to Junior. SpaceGodzilla's doing the same kinda stuff in its narrative, but it's just... worse.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 02:54
|
|
|
HannibalBarca posted:The Heisei Gamera movies are kinda graded on a generous curve to some extent, but I think you could make the case that they were pretty easily the best kaiju media of the 1990s, which isn't nothing. Stuff like the Kiryu movies, Shin, and now Minus One (and even, to some extent, the 2006 one-off Gamera the Brave) have since eclipsed them in my mind, but as Mantis points out, they're one of the last hurrahs for practical kaiju FX, something that Heisei Gamera does way better than the boring, unambitious 90s Godzilla movies. I mean, I won't say it's good, but one of the last things I'd say about the 90s King Ghidora, having just watched it, is "boring and unambitious". It's constantly doing new stupid nonsense, including a brief visit to the new alternate future caused by the time travel meddling just to ensure that how time travel is handled in the film makes no sense at all. It also has plenty of practical Kaiju FX, as Godzilla continued to do through the Millenium era. Sure, there was CG mixed in, but given how much there was in Gamera, that's a bit of a glass and stones thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 10:37
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I mean, I won't say it's good, but one of the last things I'd say about the 90s King Ghidora, having just watched it, is "boring and unambitious". It's constantly doing new stupid nonsense, including a brief visit to the new alternate future caused by the time travel meddling just to ensure that how time travel is handled in the film makes no sense at all. Sure, that's fair. Mostly I meant that the SFX in the 90s Godzilla movies were boring and unambitious, not necessarily the stories -- though I'm not a huge fan of those either tbh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 12:34
|
|
|
Welp Godzilla is marketable again.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLvp1-VRNs McDonalds vs Godzilla
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 14:14
|
|
|
ok the mcdonalds mecha is pretty cool
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 15:12
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I mean, I won't say it's good, but one of the last things I'd say about the 90s King Ghidora, having just watched it, is "boring and unambitious". It's constantly doing new stupid nonsense, including a brief visit to the new alternate future caused by the time travel meddling just to ensure that how time travel is handled in the film makes no sense at all. Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah rules, def in my top 10 Godzilla movies. Never a dull moment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 15:57
|
|
|
I thought the first two Gamera films were pretty decent but I didn't care for the 3rd one at all. It had some weird non-ending and the character beats were unearned. I do think the fights went a bit harder than the Godzilla films at the time but I liked the Godzilla films more (I think I liked those more than a lot of people in this thread) and I just have more affinity for the character in general.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 18:22
|
|
|
I really tried with Gamera but I can’t help but feel like it’s one of those cases where, yes, they’re pretty decent but earnestly saying they’re better than the Godzilla films of the same era feels like some underdog rooting thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 18:50
|
|
|
someone put it to me the other day that while Godzilla has higher highs, there is no three movie run in his entire career as good as the Gamera Heisei trilogy. and I think he might be on to something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah rules, def in my top 10 Godzilla movies. Never a dull moment. When I did my recent little first watch, besides the original this was the film that made me go “oh I get these movies now. “
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 20:53
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:someone put it to me the other day that while Godzilla has higher highs, there is no three movie run in his entire career as good as the Gamera Heisei trilogy. and I think he might be on to something. Final Wars -> Shin -> Minus One
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:02
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Final Wars -> Shin -> Minus One ah, but here's the part that complicates things: Final Wars sucks rear end
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:ah, but here's the part that complicates things: Final Wars sucks rear end Mods?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2023 22:09
|
|