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Data Graham posted:Oh no I totally buy it, it's a good gag and it completely works. It just requires you to be super on the ball because of how much it depends on subtle reading of the character designs and voices, which by that point (just a few minutes in) you're only barely getting a handle on, not helped by how frenetic everything is and how wild everyone's emoting is, to say nothing of the inconsistent line style thanks to the crowdsourced animation. i mean the joke was mostly "ok doctors look weird and sound like the characters and also are kinda just loving around to see what works so its probably IMP trying to save the kid.... oh ok, funny" yeah i am not an animation expert at all. i just know styles i like and she is one of the ones i like. its not perfect, i thought hazbin was too random in character design and had no symetry or consistancy. but i prefer that to the tumblr melty egg yolk eyes and bean mouths and blurry/fluffy look i see from alot of indie art before and after that.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:45
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Dapper_Swindler posted:the tumblr melty egg yolk eyes and bean mouths and blurry/fluffy look i see from alot of indie art got any examples? I'm trying to get a better sense of what you're aiming for aesthetically. I kinda view Viv's art as being an exciting thing for people who miss things like invader zim, nightmare before christmas, coraline, etc. because there just hasn't really been a major one of those in well over a decade, and for kids who weren't around for those things, this gets to be their first taste of that aesthetic. (Add some of that furry influence to it and you've got some hooks in another audience hungry for new material.) Overall, it feels like we're kinda entering a new 90s period of culture that wants to rebel against a falsely sanitized and cleaned up world and often likes to use a pastiche of old media to comment on it. The digital circus short is like a nexus point of these trends with mascot horror.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:24
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Folks we have a HB/Hazbin thread.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:58
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Yeah I mean I don't know if I'm THAT invested lol
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Dec 23, 2023 00:00
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Warbird posted:Folks we have a HB/Hazbin thread. it seems like every few pages someone suggests the discussion in here goes elsewhere. adventure time, blue eye samurai, now hazbin. if you aren't watching the show people are currently talking about, it doesn't mean it belongs in another thread. you start excising all the actual discussion out and it'll just be a bunch of 2 page threads and this one not getting used, and it's already not that active
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Dec 23, 2023 00:27
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YggiDee posted:Being "good at inbetweening" sounds like both one of the most crucial and most underappreciated parts of the animation process. Yeah man just draw hundreds of nearly identical images that happen between images A and B and they're probably doing something complex and subtle with their hands. no yeah the Keyframes left out all the hard bits you gotta draw a guy doing origami. nobody will ever know your name.
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Dec 23, 2023 01:00
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finished carol. i sort of agree episode 9 was unfortunate. the actual development of carol's life was very interesting to me and they basically dropped it entirely for 2 whole episodes before the finale. the finale was very good but i would've enjoyed it more if eps 8+9 didn't exist i think. not that they were terrible, they just felt kinda irrelevant and the finale goes right back to what i loved about the first 6 episodes, but it would've hit me emotionally more if i hadn't been slightly annoyed by the previous 2. absolutely could've been a movie, and probably a great one.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:03
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mystes posted:I think it's at least somewhat appreciated, at least by the absence of hate from animation nerds who will get angry if there are animation errors when they pause the video These people drive me crazy because this stupid practice misses the entire point of animation. It's anti-animation nerd imo.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:11
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Oddly enough, I think there's also the animator-types who get a little bit too into the 'rules of animation' and end up adding overshoot and settle to literally every movement, no matter if it makes sense.
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Dec 23, 2023 11:00
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Neeksy posted:Oddly enough, I think there's also the animator-types who get a little bit too into the 'rules of animation' and end up adding overshoot and settle to literally every movement, no matter if it makes sense. Also true! It's about hitting a balance that won't take you out of the moment. Other than, "Wow, this is really beautiful."
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Dec 23, 2023 18:34
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Sometimes people animating things too much can be aesthetically annoying from everything moving too much, but I think the greater danger from that sort of attitude is people ending up overworking themselves or making to much work for themselves so that they'll never finish a project.
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Dec 23, 2023 20:57
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isn't that what happened to The Thief and the Cobbler?
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Dec 23, 2023 21:27
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To me the biggest culprit of "we need everything to move -more-" are the digital-puppet-based animation projects as if to overcompensate for the fact that it's 90% symbol motion tweening. Ironically this ends up causing you to notice it more. You know how 24fps feels more cinematic despite 30+fps being technically higher-fidelity? Motion-tweening and digitally skewing end up causing this same "this actually looks worse than if someone drew it, even if incorrectly" thing in my brain. Captain Laserhawk constantly breaks my vision with the digital squash and stretch like this.
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Dec 23, 2023 22:36
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YggiDee posted:isn't that what happened to The Thief and the Cobbler? P much yeah. It was a wonderfully animated movie but goddamn did it bomb hard. Richard Williams was insanely dedicated to his craft.
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Dec 23, 2023 22:49
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Shindragon posted:P much yeah. It was a wonderfully animated movie but goddamn did it bomb hard. Speaking of, how much does the fanmade “Recobbled Cut” actually improve that movie out of curiosity?
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Dec 23, 2023 22:54
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Neeksy posted:To me the biggest culprit of "we need everything to move -more-" are the digital-puppet-based animation projects as if to overcompensate for the fact that it's 90% symbol motion tweening. Ironically this ends up causing you to notice it more. yeah I know what you mean. I want to do a test at some point to see if being selective with what parts move + keeping the FPS low does anything to improve this effect.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:16
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Larryb posted:Speaking of, how much does the fanmade “Recobbled Cut” actually improve that movie out of curiosity? substantially. all of the added material is like fourth-tier direct-to-video slop so it's much better just from its exclusion
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Dec 23, 2023 23:18
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roomtone posted:yeah I know what you mean. I want to do a test at some point to see if being selective with what parts move + keeping the FPS low does anything to improve this effect. I think doing actual tracebacks instead of moving the parts into place and leaving them as-is would create a much more organic effect. If you're not confident enough to do the draftsman work of animating and drawing, you can still transform/skew the pieces that you need, but use that as your drafting layer, and then ink over that. The act of doing that final draw-over will in effect launder your re-use under a new drawing because even if you're extremely precise, the natural differences in line quality will get that organic look. I'd also just -ban- the use of skew transforms, because that's not how matter behaves unless it's all gelatin. Larryb posted:Speaking of, how much does the fanmade “Recobbled Cut” actually improve that movie out of curiosity? It becomes an actual watchable movie. It's a huge difference. Neeksy fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 23:29
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Neeksy posted:It becomes an actual watchable movie. It's a huge difference. Still not a good movie though. I'm not convinced it would have been good even if it was finished despite the amazing animation. More of an interesting historical artifact of animation than anything.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:51
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I guess I should say I am being semi-literal with 'watchable' in the sense that I can actually stand to watch it and appreciate the craft of without wanting to die.
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Dec 23, 2023 23:57
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YggiDee posted:isn't that what happened to The Thief and the Cobbler? Mostly. But Richard Williams's animation perfectionism extended even further beyond that to the point where he would constantly scrap sequences and start over from scratch in order to do something cooler. And then there was a whole thing where he kept losing funding over and over again, probably rightfully so. Roger Rabbit only got finished because the studio went behind his back to occasionally animate on twos make a second animation unit on the other side of the planet so Richard Williams couldn't drag down the process as much. I enjoyed the Thief and the Cobbler movie that released and I actually got to watch as a kid, as opposed to the movie that existed solely in Richard Williams's head that he couldn't bring himself to work out the bugs to his own satisfaction.
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Dec 24, 2023 01:50
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Really was the Tolkien of animation huh.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:51
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The story of nearly every 'we left the director to his own devices and he trapped everyone in development hell for years' production usually involves a lot of scrapping completed content because it's just not good enough over and over. Weirdly enough equally likely at any level of competence. Actually managing a project, with its compromises, planning, and organisation of people, time, money and resources, is a whole actual skill of its own for a reason.
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Dec 24, 2023 08:40
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Kind of reminds me of the Spiderverse production nightmares.
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Dec 24, 2023 08:58
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Neeksy posted:Kind of reminds me of the Spiderverse production nightmares. Or the spiderman broadway play. I think you also sometimes need to force outside criticism so the creator isn't in a bubble where nobody tells them a thing isn't working.
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Dec 24, 2023 17:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4IvCYM1QB4 Apparently, Migration isn't that bad of a movie?
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Dec 25, 2023 05:07
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I've been seeing a few posts about Migration actually being good. It certainly doesn't look bad at all, at least to me. Frankly if Illuminations name wasn't on the trailer I would never know it was even from them. It's not projected to do super well I don't think opening weekend, but I wouldn't be surprised if the movie pulls and Elemental and word of mouth gets people to go see it. Assuming it is actually good.
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Dec 25, 2023 05:22
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Das Boo posted:These people drive me crazy because this stupid practice misses the entire point of animation. It's anti-animation nerd imo. 
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Dec 25, 2023 16:43
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Neeksy posted:got any examples? I'm trying to get a better sense of what you're aiming for aesthetically. id have to dig it up, but it was big in the Devient art mock threads, basicaly steven universe got big and every artist copied sugars art real hard because it was the in thing. except people add weird amounts of detail and poo poo and always make the eyes water to do sugars crying effect but it looks like melting eggs. on the other point its less 90s and more a nostalgia wave for 00s/early10s stuff now too. maybe its just because i hang on weird artist discords but i see alot of nostalgia for those times more then 90s. digital circus is more dark comedy based vaguely edutainment games and shows from those times. HB/hazbin is very much the edgy zim/grim adventures/hot topic thing but with more meaningful character and no gen z nihilism uber mean humor.
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Dec 26, 2023 19:44
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Neeksy posted:I think doing actual tracebacks instead of moving the parts into place and leaving them as-is would create a much more organic effect. It's almost a meme at work that my boss/creative director will ask us to typeset something, then redraw it by hand and he's always right and it always looks better.
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Dec 26, 2023 19:59
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roomtone posted:i just do not get the hazbin hotel and helluva boss appeal, except for children It's very much a hit or miss series. For me the hits hit hard and misses are pretty embarrassing. The pilot just so happens to be one of them unfortunately. The best way to enjoy the show is gauge what elements you like about it and watch accordingly. I'm in it for the characters, musical numbers and world building. There's a very interesting overarching theme building throughout but it's easy to miss if you aren't that invested or distracted by character drama. Basically the overall social order in hell is moving towards being upended and we don't know how that's going to shake out or if it's going to lead to massive revolution/civil war.
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Dec 26, 2023 23:09
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roomtone posted:i just do not get the hazbin hotel and helluva boss appeal, except for children I like the characters and the relationships between them. Yeah it's a little over the top swearing and edgy but also it takes place in hell so whatever. The art style REALLY appeals to me. I love how the show looks, how the characters look, and the designs in general are very fun to draw so that part super appeals to me
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Dec 26, 2023 23:30
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Have we discussed Blood of Zeus? Its Greek tragedy as anime and it's quite good.
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Dec 27, 2023 02:32
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Choco Zulu posted:Have we discussed Blood of Zeus? Its Greek tragedy as anime and it's quite good. I didn't care for how they broke themselves rear end backwards to make Hera the villain of the story while Zeus just made a few infidelity mistakes. Like straight up they're both awful in canon. If they want to make it accurate they don't need to make it like Hera is more unreasonable than him.
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Dec 27, 2023 03:17
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Dapper_Swindler posted:id have to dig it up, but it was big in the Devient art mock threads, basicaly steven universe got big and every artist copied sugars art real hard because it was the in thing. except people add weird amounts of detail and poo poo and always make the eyes water to do sugars crying effect but it looks like melting eggs. I'm not saying it's nostalgia -for- the 90s so much as we're entering another cultural period like it, maybe the 70s if I want to try and be more far-reaching.
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Dec 27, 2023 08:33
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Flopsy posted:I didn't care for how they broke themselves rear end backwards to make Hera the villain of the story while Zeus just made a few infidelity mistakes. Like straight up they're both awful in canon. If they want to make it accurate they don't need to make it like Hera is more unreasonable than him. The idea of mythology having internal canonicity or continuity is kind of funny, but mostly wrong. Even the people who actually adhered to that religion were constantly reinterpreting their gods even just in different cities at the same time, nevermind over the course of centuries.
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Dec 27, 2023 09:32
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Bongo Bill posted:The idea of mythology having internal canonicity or continuity is kind of funny, but mostly wrong. Even the people who actually adhered to that religion were constantly reinterpreting their gods even just in different cities at the same time, nevermind over the course of centuries. Ok let me be specific. Trying to play Zeus off as the goofy horny guy who made some sex mistakes but still really loves his wife and kids and Hera as an unreasonable shrew is loving sexist as poo poo. I'm fully aware of how characters change for various Gods down the centuries right down to what they originally represented. And 99% of the time I'm fine with creative interpretation, but the way they're doing it here is really drat gross to me. Like was Hera jealous and possessive to the point of insanity? Yeah but she was also the goddess of marriage and fidelity so her own marriage being a complete trainwreck would reasonably drive her insane. Zeus had a habit of trying to avoid the mistakes of his father and grandfather by killing anyone who might rise up as a threat to his rule in the future. And considering that would be a kid of his and he hosed like it was going out of style you can imagine what that tended to entail. Ignoring the problematic aspects of the one God to emphasize the flaws of another has always felt icky to me. More so when it's making excuses for a man who cheats on his wife on the reg and making her out to be cray cray and unreasonable. I'm not even touching the fact they named a character Seraph and shoehorned in a bunch of Christian imagery with him because--reasons.
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Dec 27, 2023 18:36
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Its been a few years since I've watched Blood of Zues but I remember hating Zues and the protagonist. I liked the antagonist a lot more and honestly felt he was way more justified in getting revenge vs. whatever the protag wanted. Plus everything the poster above me said about Hera. It just felt like the things in the show should have been reversed with Hera and her champion vs. Zues and his champion. It even had strong favoritism vibes since I think both of them were Zues's kids but Zues gave everything to 1 of them including weapons, training, and support while his other kid was told to gently caress off and die already. I'm pretty sure when Zues found out Hera was helping his other kid Zues got angry and told her to stop while doing the very thing he was telling her not to do. I just couldn't understand why we as the audience were meant to root for Zues and the protag.
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Dec 27, 2023 19:03
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Just finished the new 5-episode run of ATHF, and wow it is weird seeing it with "good" animation. The newly refreshed high-budget intro is  For some reason I fell off after Season 5 years and years ago and never bothered trying to watch the rest of the main run of seasons as they came out, so I caught up on all those just now too. Man, that is a show that I thought was losing steam when I dipped but I guess that was just a fluke or something because it kept steaming along with new bangers right on through to the end. It's such a strange time-capsule show that perfectly distills that 2000s [as] sense of humor in a way that I think of as the mainline flavor of irrepressible character-driven antics inheriting from SGC2C with its more dadaist late-night vibe; there were a lot of other shows that spun off from that trunk that had their own ideas about what was funny about it and often weren't really on the money, or appealed only to a very specific audience. And they often petered out pretty quickly. But ATHF sure seems to just be boundless in its wacko niche appeal, and able to keep being iconic in ways I hadn't seen coming.
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Dec 27, 2023 19:43
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I don't think you were meant to root for Zeus. It was all his fault and he kept breaking his own rules. Zeus was only 'good' in that Hera insisted on punishing the blameless MC for Zeuses fuckups. P sure they killed Zeus at the end specifically to avoid a moral reckoning, Darth Vader style. IIRC Right until the end the dude rejected the power of Zeus until it was that or die.
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Dec 27, 2023 20:09
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